You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre  (Read 1033 times)

Death

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« on: June 13, 2021, 04:09:37 AM »
This is really only a quality of life suggestion, but the cap on Petre's prices to sell things kinda sucks. If the cap was raised by even just 100 or so gold, the quality of life for new players and low levels would be improved immensely, in the sphere of making gold for a lowbie pc in order to get essential gear for their build.

I recall once that someone told me that the cap increases with appraise skill. I once played as a high appraise PC, and I never really noticed an increment or actually relevant increase in the cap. Maybe I'm biased, but if the cap was increased just a little I think it would be a world of difference for everyone who relies on vendoring items to him on low levels.

SardineTheAncestor

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2021, 04:35:14 AM »
For the cap I don't really know how it works in full detail, but I do know that if you're in the merchant's menu and someone else with lower appraise comes up and opens the menu too, the cap will go to the lower value. Petre in particular seems to always have people coming and going, so unless you wait for everyone else to leave and do your selling quickly you'll be getting no benefit from your appraise skill, or at least very little, unless you redo your appraise ritual if any and then start over.

For the suggestion itself, I'm torn because I feel like the scarcity is entirely the point when one is still low level. At the same time, gold rewards & loot especially in the Vallaki region have been increasing for a while now, so maybe that design is changing.

This is kind of a tangent, but I think if that trend continues, including raising Petre's sale cap, I'd like to see some more availability of consumables as a gold sink. A greater number of lesser potions & magic items available from vendors like Petre, Navarre, the Herczogs, and others, who already sell some magic items, but could stand to serve a few more. Nothing better than what a player herbalist can give you, and nothing necessarily unique, stuff like bay leaves or the healing tea in Har'Akir, the nice-to-haves that can round out your inventory if you're into using these consumables.
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

Fungal Artillery

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2021, 05:10:01 AM »
The small amounts of money Petre gives for loot plays in to the vast gap between the haves and have-nots on PoTM. I would like to see Petre's values raised to be identical with Djordji's at the mist camp. This would make for a positive change in the player market, as newer characters could afford more gear and consumables, especially during the less productive herb seasons when Vallaki-based characters usually suffer famine.

There needs to be enough money to go around at lower levels for the game to work. And there is more players now than ever, competing over everything.
"A man in a robe, claiming communion with the divine? Madness." - Narrator, Darkest Dungeon

Death

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2021, 05:20:32 AM »
I suppose scarcity as a theme of being low level is reasonable, but depending on the person it might be a detriment to their experience due to the irl sink of time required to accrue the money required for items sold by either NPC merchants or just PC merchants in general.

The way I'm kind of looking at this is from a game-play and community perspective. There are a number of players who are reliant on the crafting system to sell things to players for money they need, and there are just people who sell stuff that they ninjalooted to people for money they need too, but there are some people out there who do neither of these things (either because lack of familiarity about what sells, or lack of patience and time) and they're just reliant on npc merchants to get the gold that they need for items and armor required for their build (most often new players and low levels), which is often sold by player merchants who often have set prices for their items and wares that is above and beyond what a NPC merchant might sell it for if someone simply decided to vendor it to them.

When you're a low level, you're really starved on gear and the necessities needed to make your build or time in game a successful one, so you need to spend time making gold by doing one of two things: Running and doing dungeons and adventures with other players, or running and doing the delivery NPC quests. Someone could add that a lot of players make money by selling items to crafters, but there are sometimes periods of time where players are unable to accomplish this, so we are defaulted to the two constants.

The most popular way of making money is method number one which rounds out to the the reliance on NPC merchants to make money, however with the cap that exists on Petre compared to other NPC merchants, most of the people reliant on him make only a pittance when they sell things to him especially if they have to split the sharings with other players at the end of the day which results in the need to grind more and do more dungeons in order to get the things they want or need to be successful, which is also a considerable time sink. Some people have irl obligations and jobs to attend to, so they don't always have the opportunity to do these things.

You can make better money by running deliveries, but continuously doing these over and over is also a big time-sink and gets really boring for people doing it over and over, when they could be doing the alternative of RPing with others and having fun doing dungeons, but make less money that way.

This is a long ramble about my thoughts (which I think kind of over-complicated the core idea, but I kinda wanted to make my reasoning more clear) but I genuinely think that if the cap was raised by even a small amount, like 100 gold, it might at least make a difference for the low level experience or new player experience in general, for both new players and old players alike. Not to mention it will benefit people who sell things to players in that sphere as well, encouraging more positive player-to-player interactions in that regard.

Death

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2021, 05:26:24 AM »
The small amounts of money Petre gives for loot plays in to the vast gap between the haves and have-nots on PoTM. I would like to see Petre's values raised to be identical with Djordji's at the mist camp. This would make for a positive change in the player market, as newer characters could afford more gear and consumables, especially during the less productive herb seasons when Vallaki-based characters usually suffer famine.

There needs to be enough money to go around at lower levels for the game to work. And there is more players now than ever, competing over everything.

The server population is also a good point. POTM recieves alot of new players and visitors everyday.

zDark Shadowz

  • Guest
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2021, 05:29:35 AM »
Barovia is meant to be fairly poor in terms of economy, there's a lot of players with pocket change enough to buy Vallaki if it was 3e.

The appraise system here works on a point for point system, there are appraise feats the adjust it but ignoring the feats 1 point of appraise equates to a 1% increase (A cap of 200 becomes 202 after one point.). With basic gear you can improve that percentage by a fair amount, but also, depending on the merchant themselves, your OCR has a factor against the appraise checks too.

Vistani tend to be one of the few sets of merchants that aren't affected by OCR, so I think it's part of the design intent that, you aren't meant to be selling to Petre. This isn't a disservice to new players, it's an incentive to go out and explore other mercantile options.

Petre has a monopoly on new players only because the new players don't go out to find better merchants. The poor prices are self-inflicted.

Good thing he has infinite gold though right? He sure buys a lot of pelts.

Death

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2021, 05:49:57 AM »
Vistani tend to be one of the few sets of merchants that aren't affected by OCR, so I think it's part of the design intent that, you aren't meant to be selling to Petre. This isn't a disservice to new players, it's an incentive to go out and explore other mercantile options.

Petre has a monopoly on new players only because the new players don't go out to find better merchants. The poor prices are self-inflicted.

Good thing he has infinite gold though right? He sure buys a lot of pelts.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this, as I'm not quite fully aware if there are any other mercantile options for players in Barovia. In my entire year of playing here on POTM, Petre has been the number-one go to guy to sell things out of convienence for almost /everyone/, old and new player alike, and it is also what the game has taught us in game-play as he is the first merchant that we encounter universally here on the server. I've yet to find any other NPC around that you are allowed to sell the things that you are allowed to with Petre.

Also I would have to add that I haven't really found any other merchant besides him that pays any better that is as easily accessible in Barovia, and I would also feel it's a little lore breaking (at least in the terms of lore as I understand it) to be selling a majority of the occult items that are found to a poor Barovian store-owner or whoever else that might hypothetically exist that could offer better prices (playing on the assumption based on what has been seen available in game for other NPC merchants, as the majority of the rest of them are natives).

The next best merchants for a player to vendor their items to are also found a good ways away on the server, in the Mist Camp and Port-a-Lucine, and when you're a low level these aren't exactly very viable options unless they're prepared for a potentially dangerous trip there and back, and you can't really ask alot of players to do this when they're level 4 or 5.

zDark Shadowz

  • Guest
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2021, 05:58:21 AM »
There are other merchants, that you don't have to travel on a caravan for, and if you haven't found them then I shouldn't spoil them. They could offer a better price than Petre given the right conditions, though their caps are initially similar.

SardineTheAncestor

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2021, 06:57:59 AM »
This is also kind of a tangent but re: winter, it's my favourite time to be in Vallaki. Bigger, badder, more rewarding enemies in the world, environmental damage is cool, and no pesky herbs to break up the party except for a few. Wish it was even more dire. It's a great time to get low level rich without having to worry about Petre's sale cap, but yeah, spawns take time to build and there are so many people around that if everyone was doing it, nobody would be doing it, if you get me.
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22495
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2021, 08:52:15 AM »
This is intentional to encourage higher levels to move away; if you want to make more money you'll have to move away from the starting zone.

Death

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2021, 12:32:34 PM »
Certainly, reasonable to make it easier to accrue money in the higher level zones with the higher level dungeons in close proximity, but at the end of the day people will go where they want to go to RP and have fun, and keeping a cap on the merchant isn't exactly going to keep the high levels out if they want to RP in Barovia or just hang out there and peddle crafts and wares to other players.

Keeping the cap is really only affecting the people who are actually reliant on Petre, in my opinion, and don't always exactly have the resources to go elsewhere to make the money.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 12:45:39 PM by Death »

EarlofEtheria

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2021, 01:39:07 PM »
I'm of the other side of this coin: I'd rather see adventurers (including myself) return to Petre less and instead seek out other merchants.

Adventuring and collecting loot is probably one of the least efficient ways for new characters to make coin. Scrounging 800-4000 gp in items from the crypts or elsewhere may sound good, but then you split it 4~8 ways commonly, factor in time, and you're holding a cargo trip's amount in payout. Petre's purchase cap has little to do with the risk, investment of time, and the amount of divisions made to the total. The volume of items being sold would need to be exponential to the point where all items found lose their value. "Magic sword? We found four already." Raising Petre's purchase cap may not change things either, as most items that side of Barovia sell for 200 something. Higher level characters can adventure with less allies, less divisions, more security and faster. Petre's cap is only one factor amongst many that keeps the zone hotly traveled to.

BraveSirRobin

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2074
  • "Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2021, 05:14:23 PM »
Once you explore the server more, you'll find merchants with a vastly higher sell cap than Petre.

QDS

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2021, 06:31:47 PM »
This is intentional to encourage higher levels to move away; if you want to make more money you'll have to move away from the starting zone.

That. If Petre would sell at bigger prices, higher levels would just solo every dungeon around Vallaki and make their money. You wouldn't want that.
Rock'n'rolla...

Death

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2021, 09:22:03 PM »
Quote
That. If Petre would sell at bigger prices, higher levels would just solo every dungeon around Vallaki and make their money. You wouldn't want that.

This might be a bit of a necro, but I'm a bit disappointed that it would be implied that the players in our community would have such a lack of courtesy for their fellow players that they would destroy the xp in low level regions by destroying spawns for their own monetary gain.

PrimetheGrime

  • Full-time Hunter, Part-time Outlaw
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2023
Re: Raise the Sale Cap on Petre
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2021, 10:54:24 PM »
Quote
That. If Petre would sell at bigger prices, higher levels would just solo every dungeon around Vallaki and make their money. You wouldn't want that.

This might be a bit of a necro, but I'm a bit disappointed that it would be implied that the players in our community would have such a lack of courtesy for their fellow players that they would destroy the xp in low level regions by destroying spawns for their own monetary gain.

It's a pretty valid concern. I've watched players wipe an area out for the loot. Sure, the majority of the community might not be like that, but it only takes a few groups to make it a problem. Money talks pretty loud