Author Topic: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician  (Read 1091 times)

herkles

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Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« on: May 27, 2021, 07:35:13 PM »
So I was looking through the books for some prestige classes and after speaking with Inkcorvid, the idea of the Learned Physician could be done. It would be a skill monkey and mundane healing class. What do others think of this Prestige Class?


Requirements
To qualify to become a learned physician (Lph), a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (any) 5 ranks, Healing 8 ranks, Profession (herbalist) 5 ranks.
Feat: Investigator, University Education
Special: The candidate must be a graduate of a recognized university.

Class Skills
The learned physician’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), plus any five additional skills chosen by the learned physician when he first enters the class.
Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier

Class Features
Hit Die: d6.
All the following are class features of the learned physician prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Learned physicians gain no proficiency with any weapon, armor, or shield.
Spellcasting: At every even-numbered learned physician level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class he had before taking the level in learned physician. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved ability to turn undead, and so on), except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. This essentially means that he adds the level of learned physician to the level of his previous spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known and caster level accordingly.

If the character has more than one spellcasting class, he must decide to which class he adds each level of learned physician for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known. If the character had no spellcasting ability before taking levels in this prestige class, he may instead choose one spell-like ability from the table below at each even-numbered learned physician level. He may choose any spell-like ability with a “task rating” less than or equal to his learned physician level + his Wisdom modifier. Each of these abilities is usable once per day. If the learned physician chooses the same ability multiple times, he gains one additional use per day each time he chooses it.

Saving throw DCs, where applicable, are 10 + spell level + the learned physician’s Wisdom modifier.

Scientific Knowledge (Ex): Learned physicians gather knowledge about all sorts of topics. At 1st level, the learned physician knows information regarding various esoteric topics, just as a bard does. He adds his learned physician level and his Intelligence modifier to a 1d20 roll and compares the result with the scientific knowledge DC for the information. This ability otherwise works like the bardic knowledge ability.

A learned physician can make a scientific knowledge check to connect a power source to an item made with the Create Device* feat. He can also make a scientific knowledge check to learn how to use any spell trigger or spell completion item created with the Create Device feat as though he were a spellcaster of the appropriate type with a caster level equal to his character level. The DC for such a check is 15 + the device’s effective caster level.

Speedy Observation (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, the learned physician becomes a keen observer who can notice apparently unrelated details and quickly form a valid conclusion. The character gains a +2 bonus on all Search checks and Heal checks. In addition, the learned physician can make a Search check over a space or volume of goods roughly 10 feet by 10 feet by 5 feet as a fullround action.

Healing Touch (Su): At 5th level, a learned physician can heal wounds (his own or those of others) by touch. Each day, he can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to his learned physician level x his Charisma modifier (minimum 1). The learned physician may choose to divide his healing among multiple recipients, and he doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using healing touch is a standard action. Starting at 9th level, the learned physician’s healing touch can cure a number of points of damage per day equal to his learned physician level x his Charisma modifier (minimum 1) x his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). In addition, the learned physician can now use remove blindness/deafness or remove disease a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum once per day). The use of either effect counts as one daily use of this ability.

Bedside Manner (Ex): Beginning at 9th level, the learned physician develops a knack for putting people at ease and reading their body language. He gains a +2 bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information and Sense Motive checks.






Inkcorvid did suggest something like the following as a way to implement the class.

1 Scientific Knowledge: +1 skill bonus to Lore and Heal for every Learned Physician level.
2 Spell-like ability: Detect Poison
3 Keen senses
4 Spell-like ability: Remove Disease
5 Lay on hands
6 Spell-like ability: Neutralize Poison
7 -
8 Spell-like ability: Restoration
9 Skill focus (Influence)
10 Spell-like ability: Greater Restoration


Hathor

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2021, 08:12:12 PM »
I like the idea of adding mundane healing to the game in a big way with a PrC. IMO, a mundane healing PrC should be capable of at least matching clerics/druids in terms of helpful healing abilities on and off the battlefield, since otherwise they're largely skill monkeys.

I think it'd also be cool as a base class.

Some other ideas:
Advanced Nutrition - An AoE ability which improves the benefits of eaten food around you for x amount of hours.
Calisthenics - An AoE ability which removes or reduces exhaustion effects
Stitches - Bandaging provides some benefit, such as temporary HP for an hour or something like that.

Phantasia

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2021, 08:28:12 PM »
As much as I love the little niche PrCs in the various books across and your hustle lately to bring them to the spotlight, herkles, I just feel like Learned Physician is outshined by any other class that has similar abilities. A wizard just gets way more spells. A cleric has far more healing abilities than the Lph and also has spells. A paladin has its own potent healing and spells even while being largely a martial class. All of these classes can adopt the designation of "physician" without having it stated on their character sheet.

A lot of the 3e and 2e classes for Ravenloft that were written just seem to function far better in a PnP environment, and the writers did not seem to give the majority of them any legitimate care in their creation. In a game environment like NWN, taking Lph in conjunction with any of the aforementioned classes would only serve to severely dilute your character's potency for what feels to be very little gain in pure flavor alone (much like other PrCs that will go unnamed). Even if it was implemented, what is the appeal (barring "RP" benefits) for taking this PrC? What unique mechanics do they bring to the table for parties and even for RP? Is it only that you are just a turbo physician that is better than everyone else at being a physician?

It seems quite shallow, I hate to say, and I think we may be better served examining PrCs from the books that deepen more prominent themes of Ravenloft. I do not think many of the "mundane" roles in society that were designated PrCs will ever fit into a PW on NWN. It is far more liberating to allow these roles to be taken up solely through roleplay rather than having people feel the need they need to be "xyz" in order to be a physician or whatever else, or that they may deserve special recognition over another for their PrC > RP effort.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 08:30:04 PM by Phantasia »
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Hypatia

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2021, 09:18:44 PM »
This class seems to give you potential to have slightly higher heal and lore skill and nothing else. Heal as a skill is utterly useless after a certain amount of ranks and I say this as a PC with the max possible heal skill including feats. I do have some fun RP-wise, but mechanically and even in DM events, it’s been basically useless. Anytime I try to use it for anything I’m told there’s no way to know. Players often don’t respect your number, even though I have to respect their streatlh numbers when they tip toe through open doorways unseen. So my question is, why have a PRC that takes a basically useless skill, and doesn’t do anything to make it less useless? Also, there is gear that boosts your heal skill that only a cleric can use... so will the PRC even get your skill higher?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 09:21:20 PM by Hypatia »

NacreCicatrix

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2021, 07:56:45 AM »
My only thought is that the class could have some means of making and using the vanilla healing kits.
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tylernwn

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2021, 10:10:51 AM »
Definitely enjoying the class suggestions.

Profezzor_Darke

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2021, 12:53:50 PM »
We should add more fun RP related classes. We are a RP server. Yes we do hard dungeons. But that's not the focus of the server. Dungeons are here to provide play oppurtunities and to be fun to, not to be the necessary to do. They shouldn't be the focus when we're adding classes.

The LPH needs something special, especially in terms of RP. Perhaps they are a healer of absurd focus that their intrinsic knowledge of humanoid bodies would make them able to treat supernatural afflictions like they were more mundane. Like Van Helsing who studied Vampirism as a blood illness at first etc. etc. Yes this would be RP stuff that would only happen in DM events, but if you apply for RP classes you'd play in environs where you're dead set on using your abilities. Idk why we shouldn't add classes that are underpowered for dungeoneering still. Perhaps they learn to cure common curses with medical equipment even. Get first aid feats that let's them heal HP mid combat. Fun like that. Increase the skill bonuses. As was stated, if you need to apply for this class, and if you're deadset on playing the class this way, then we need to scale them up with normal classes in terms of realistic power distribution, and then they would be 95% focused on healing and social interaction.

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Revenant

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2021, 06:57:04 PM »
We should add more fun RP related classes. We are a RP server. Yes we do hard dungeons. But that's not the focus of the server. Dungeons are here to provide play oppurtunities and to be fun to, not to be the necessary to do. They shouldn't be the focus when we're adding classes.

My main test for new classes, especially if they're mechanically weak, is "Does this support a niche that was difficult to properly roleplay before?"

Take Voodan as an example. It would be cheesing to use Cleric to pretend to be a Voodan. The class more or less allows the roleplay. Learned Physician would suffer the Monster Hunter problem, on top of being even less interesting mechanically: you can already be one in every meaningful way without the PrC. You can focus on mundane/period medicine mechanically and through RP, you can go to Dementlieu and enroll in the University and become known as a Doctor. Indeed, graduating from the University would be a requirement for the class, so it hardly opens up a variety of takes on the concept.

Right now, the class doesn't stand on its own merits mechanically or through RP. It would need serious changes to either enable a concept that isn't supported or have a viable mechanical reason to exist, in my opinion. The server tends to try not to radically alter classes, and I just think that there are other prestige classes and base classes that would be better suited without such re-tailoring required.
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MAB77

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2021, 12:16:58 PM »
[...]Take Voodan as an example. It would be cheesing to use Cleric to pretend to be a Voodan. [...]

Actually, being a cleric of the Loa is allowed by the rules. Voodan are the primary religious casters in Souragne but clerics also worship the Loa pantheon. A cleric of the Loa is restricted to the clerical domains of its patron Loa. Voodan is a religion first then a title before being a character class.

Granted it is largely pointless (and kinda boring) to be a cleric of the Loa though. One would miss the major aspects of the faith and the roleplay that goes with it.
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Kaninchen

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2021, 01:38:22 PM »
I know of at least one player who had a cleric, RPing as a Voodan, before the class existed, so it is allowed.

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2021, 03:16:34 PM »
Could also be a hypnotist that works at the Zarcroft Asylum rather than going off to France, helping people with Recovering From Madness, though that'd also require the charisma & trained only hypnotism skill added in.

Hypatia

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2021, 03:51:45 PM »
I treat hypnotism as a blend of heal/influence.

Revenant

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2021, 05:21:27 PM »
[...]Take Voodan as an example. It would be cheesing to use Cleric to pretend to be a Voodan. [...]

Actually, being a cleric of the Loa is allowed by the rules. Voodan are the primary religious casters in Souragne but clerics also worship the Loa pantheon. A cleric of the Loa is restricted to the clerical domains of its patron Loa. Voodan is a religion first then a title before being a character class.

Granted it is largely pointless (and kinda boring) to be a cleric of the Loa though. One would miss the major aspects of the faith and the roleplay that goes with it.

There is an important distinction between Voodans and Clerics. People approached the worship of Loa through a clerical lens beforehand, but they remained just that - clerics.
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PlatointheCave

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2021, 05:49:43 PM »
I find Revenant's thoughts most cogent on this matter.

There's also a major limitation to note in the prerequisite:

You cannot be a doctoral graduate from in game universities as part of your character's background without it being an "epic background".

Graduation taking place in game would take RL years. While some PCs have obtained the title in an honorary capacity; that seems an unreasonable demand to take a PrC.

Also Zarcroft is definitely not a medical institute. At least, not one that focuses on uh. Healing.

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Re: Prestige Class Suggestion - Learned Physician
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2021, 01:36:43 AM »
I find Revenant's thoughts most cogent on this matter.

There's also a major limitation to note in the prerequisite:

You cannot be a doctoral graduate from in game universities as part of your character's background without it being an "epic background".

Graduation taking place in game would take RL years. While some PCs have obtained the title in an honorary capacity; that seems an unreasonable demand to take a PrC.

Also Zarcroft is definitely not a medical institute. At least, not one that focuses on uh. Healing.

I'd argue that receiving in-game medical training is achievable. Either through other, accredited Learned Physicians, or through DMs starting it off like they do with some PrCs to get the ball rolling. The Université has become more and more popular recently, with semi-regular lectures. Giving people a legitimate reason to become a Dementlieuse Docteur by name would be nice. Alternative institutions could qualify, I'm not sure about Zarcroft (as the Barovians don't really believe in structured medicine to begin with) but potentially, The Red Academy could do it (albeit, in a wicked sort of way) or the Université de Dementlieu could. I think the PrC most fits Dementlieu, as it's the only accessible and accredited center of learning on the server, short of the Red Academy, but the latter being for totally different purposes.

I don't actually know if the RA does any medicine practices. Someone correct me if it does/doesn't.

Edit: Another point I only just thought of, medicine in the era is remarkably simple. In our modern day, comprehensive medical system, you spend four years getting your basic university stuff, then four years getting specific medicinal training in an era where medicine is science. The most advanced medicine in the game currently comes from Lamordia itself, and Dr. Mordenheim's theories as taught in Dementlieu still harkon back to bloodletting, xenotransfusions and the system of humors. I don't think it would require you to undergo the same lengthy study. Things can be handwaved a bit.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 02:26:55 PM by BraveSirRobin »