Ethrealness, Locks, and Mage Lock

[Hypatia]

Would it be possible to designate some high DC locks as "Magical Locks" that can block Etherealness while having others be mundane and allow ethereal creatures to pass through them.

The reason I ask is because under Ethereal Jaunt, I pass right through unlocked doors, but somehow a lock stops me, and I'm not sure how to RP this. Especially considering that in DM events, I'm almost always allowed to pass locked doors with etherealness as per the spell's PnP description. This is a pretty high level spell, and I don't think it would unbalance things to allow this, especially since it doesn't allow others to follow.

A foil may be to add the "Mage Lock" spell that prevents ethereal PC's from moving through doors, even if they are unlocked since ethereal creatures cannot turn a door handle. You could give Mage Lock a fairly short duration so mages can't block off areas that are normally unlocked for long. Dispel magic and a rogue's high lockpick skill would be the foil for that.

[BahamutZ3RO]

The reason for this is the same reason we can't pick plot locked doors. I personally think it'd be an interesting experiment to remove plot-locking from the module entirely, but I completely understand why things are the way they are right now. All it takes is one jerk spellcaster running ham through the Citadel to give the DM team a headache and a lot of work.

[Hypatia]

I don't mean plot locked doors mind you.  Just regular ones you can break/pick. 

If Mage Lock had like a 1 round per level duration, that would handle that.  I'd be used basically to escape, or block escape... but it couldn't be used to muck up the citadel and cause headaches.

I could see Mage Lock being an amazing utility spell when running from enemies for example, or keeping that pesky ethereal person from getting in or out of your room.

[foxtale]

If we can suspend our disbelief for not being able to pass plot locked doors, not being able to pass other locked doors shouldn't be the hardest stretch.

[Hypatia]

Except plot locked doors don’t really affect game play. Normal ones do. You can hide corpses behind regular locks.

[DaloLorn]

Except plot locked doors don’t really affect game play. Normal ones do. You can hide corpses behind regular locks.

This is arguably also applicable to ghosts... you could theoretically trap a person's ghost by killing them somewhere behind a locked door. You'd just have to stay there until the ghost logged off.

[Sammylix]

I don't mean plot locked doors mind you.  Just regular ones you can break/pick. 

If Mage Lock had like a 1 round per level duration, that would handle that.  I'd be used basically to escape, or block escape... but it couldn't be used to muck up the citadel and cause headaches.

I could see Mage Lock being an amazing utility spell when running from enemies for example, or keeping that pesky ethereal person from getting in or out of your room.

I am not sure I 100% understand what you intend to suggest here. Are you suggesting a new spell entirely, or a sort of lock that is added to the current locks that are on the server right now? If you meant it as a spell, one round per level sounds quite short, and almost a bit pointless to have in one's spellbook. Perhaps the only case I could see it being useful is if you were an MPC and needed to quickly escape a chase. Or perhaps a regular PC involved in PvP running away -- but even then, it's still reasonably short.

[Hypatia]

The suggestion is a couple things:

1) ethereal jaunt and ghosts (or other ethereal) can pass through doors that aren’t plot locked. Currently normal locks stop them and this doesn’t make sense to me. If you can walk through an unlocked door as if it doesn’t exist then you should be able to walk though a locked one too. We can assume plot locked ones are warded against ethereal.

2) The Wizard Lock spell to lock a normal door with a force effect that can block ethereal creatures from passing through. The duration could be longer but someone suggested people would abuse it by locking up the citidel. I should note though that the wizard locked door should still be pickable or bashable, and the DC shouldn’t be big. This was a suggestion to use as a foil to ethereal people being able to walk through normal locked doors. It would also help you escape from monsters or PvP by locking a door with a quick spell. That would be a perfectly useful low level utility spell. The caster should be able to open it as if he had a key.

[manyconsonants]

I like the idea of Ethereal Jaunt allowing you to pass through certain locked doors in the module. Personally I think it would enhance the roleplay and immersion of that spell and most likely not be too overpowered as it would just be a substitute for carrying a crowbar or being a rogue, and of course plot/faction areas would still be off-limits. Wizard Lock also sounds like it could be a cool addition.

[PlatointheCave]

I don't think foxtale's point was understood.

It doesn't make sense that you can't break a door or unlock a plot locked one. But we accept it for reasons of design and balance.

Realism simply isn't a good enough reason to fundamentally shift server balance and design.

Jaunt needs no buff, and I am firmly against changes to it. It is already extremely powerful.

Roleplay is about constructive storytelling within the creative limits of a functioning world, not blind adherence to realism.

[Glass Cannon]

Plato raises some good points.  It may not be the end of the world to allow Ethereal Jaunt to slip past DC35 locks, but it would still make the Dev's lives more complicated, since they'd have to account for that in dungeon and ninjalooter balance.

[Hypatia]

I guess I’m not sure how it would be a balance issue. Most clerics who can cast ethereal jaunt can also crowbar the same doors open. You can’t ninja loot in jaunt because you cannot pick up items or open chests. If you try to touch anything, cast a spell or do pretty much anything the spell breaks. Jaunt is for traveling safely or escaping. It can also be used for first strike.

I have yet to be in a DM event where I wasn’t allowed to ethereal through a locked door, so I guess I don’t know why it’s not normally the case.

[Glass Cannon]

They first added a door to the Aboleth dungeon, then hiked up the lock DC considerably, to impede Ethereal Jaunt-enabled ninjalooting.  Your suggestion at present would walk back both changes.  That's probably the most significant example of where balance would be affected, though not necessarily the only one.

[mccarthy00]

Plot lock doors have the [Requires key] tag i am fairly sure, letting you Jaunt past locked doors would let you do so to all doors even them, fairly sure its just a system limitation.

[Hypatia]

Plot lock doors have the [Requires key] tag i am fairly sure, letting you Jaunt past locked doors would let you do so to all doors even them, fairly sure its just a system limitation.

That makes sense.

[EO]

While it may be "realistic", as others have pointed out, it'd make a powerful spell even more powerful and essentially let casters solo even more easily without needing rogues. In terms of balance, we try to make sure spells can't trump a class' abilities.

[Phantomswake]

So Gary Gygax liked spells allowing players to skip obstacles but not skipping content like dungeons.

Maybe there is a way to base it on an area instead of a lock. Meaning certain areas the spell failed or would be to dangerous to use.  (There are creatures that lurk in the ethereal plane and are attracted to certain places, such as dungeons.)

I wonder if we could make that separation obstacle vs  content.

[Hypatia]

I get the dungeons and party dynamics argument. For my part I wanted it more for escaping enemies, hiding in cities and RP stuff, but that all makes sense. Thanks!