Another RP XP in Barovia Suggestion

[while you were out there]

I honestly haven't read the entire thread because I'm too idle, but I'll throw in my two cents.

The idea of no RP XP past 14 Vallaki-side of the wall is to drive higher level characters out as to not hinder the experience of the newer ones that are low level, or so that's my take on it. There is no supported locale of interest to go. The mist camp is miserable and should be avoided at all costs, it is a random hub with no story other than to be a convenience for travelling parties that go between domains on their hunt for level 20. Dementlieu as a whole is a terrible setting that doesn't match the play of why I'm assuming most people join; the gothic horror element of the Ravenloft setting. Dementlieu is not inclusive on an IC level to too many character concepts, and some purely because of their race. If we were to get some form of underground for Dementlieu, that would change in a matter of seconds. The "14 France" memes prove my point, the whole idea is a joke.

It's rather jarring to see people be so openly shamed for wanting to play the setting they enjoy, purely because their character has survived long enough to no longer gain roleplay exp is some place.

[SardineTheAncestor]

But, since the level cap is 20 and not 14, it creates this perpetual cycle where one area of the server is not meant to progress yet people can easily come to it who have progressed beyond that point.

It also creates an OOC environment where people feel justified in shaming high levels, either regular characters or MPCs, for hanging around Barovia. Then they too become high level, and cognitive dissonance sets in, while suspension of disbelief needs to be turned up way beyond reasonable levels.

This is one of few RP XP threads that has been created by a high level looking to go out with a bang on their MPC. Several were created by players who had no idea the restriction existed at all until they got hit with it. They had no reason to believe high levels were ruining anything until the thread got going...

[Quartermaster]

      I'll weigh in even though some are not going to like my opinion. I currently play a level 14 character. My character runs with a group of other 14-16th level PCs. Most of our play takes place on the Mist Camp side of the server. I say Mist Camp side of the server because for me that is exactly how it feels- Vallaki is for low levels, east of the Savalich Pass, is for higher levels.
Most of our play, does not mean all of it. Today as a mater of fact our play took us back to Vallaki, Dvergheim, Degannwy, mount Baratak,  and the Road to Berez. The entire trip was for crafting regents, and other craft parts. While there my PC received XP for killing some of the monsters. Apparently that side of the server is not just for low level PCs.
     One of those new craftable resources is only located around one of those areas I mentioned. The other areas are the only way to get enough regents of certain types to warrant going back west. It is entirely risk, versus- reward. In this case it was low risk, high reward. Can our group get regents for alchemy in other high level dungeons? Yes. Is it worth the expenditures to get them, in potions, varnishes, and the risk of getting walloped to do so? NO. Will we get the same or more items for the craft in the high level dungeons? NO. There are more regents available in the lower level side of the server. It is entirely how the server has been designed.
       On top of that, There is a sever problem with the number of dungeons that take more than 5 minutes to clear, to go play in, and the numbers of players online. Many times our group has gone to a high level dungeon for the crafting parts, only to see that someone else has gone through it recently, and there is no point going through it at all. This problem of design vs current player numbers is being felt in a number of ways. One of the most recent is the heal potion vs. caster debate in the other threads. However your opinion falls on that one, is probably based entirely by how you play and with what group. I will simply repeat what one of the 2 cleric PC players in our group said. "IN the high level Dungeons with a group, one cleric cannot cover everyone with heals. It just isn't going to happen." To support my argument on this, Our group can clear the three hag dungeons in Eastern Barovia, in less time than it takes to run between them. We recently cleared the Lysagga cave in under 3 minutes. 
        Overall for my group it is about the crafting. The current update may yet help that- however due to the new types of materials that were introduced, I am betting every high level crafter and their friends, will be going through every area of the server to see where the new things are and, what's available. They will even interact with the low level players and AMPCs that Western Barovia is home too. Why should higher levels get less RP XP than anyone else there? Is it to encourage them to move back to the East? A better encouragement would be that it's worth staying on the Eastern side as everything that you need and want is there. That would make sense.
        When it comes to attempts to balance play for everyone, you can't. It is impossible. High level PCs are more powerful than low level PCs. Part of the problem that this reduced XP is trying to fix is the old "High levels stay out at night and ruin the atmosphere of Vallaki." That is a true assessment. However did you ever wonder why the high levels do stay out at night? The answer might surprise the Dev team. It's because once a PC leaves Western Barovia, night time becomes no more dangerous for them than daylight. They have gotten use to the idea that they can go where ever and do whatever at any time without any real danger from the module than a DM event. Why is that so? Where are the random nighttime encounters for the high level side of the server? Why is the Village of Barovia the safest place to be outside at night? The answer again is design. Random difficult encounters could spawn in based entirely by the level of the PC's in an area, and de-spawn when no-one is around. This same set up could be done in Vallaki areas. Let a higher level draw in something real difficult that kills them. Imagine how the lower levels would respond to that in Roleplay. It might actually be worth seeing. It would certainly re-enforce the stay inside at night warning.
      I am sure that what I have posted here will spawn a number of comments. Some who think everything is fine with how it is will probably be the most dismissive on what I have stated. I honestly hope what I have posted is taken as constructive to making things better for everyone, not just the ones who play certain ways. The server has taken some questionable directions lately, and has developed a rather bad stability problem since the last hak update. It has also increased in popularity to the point that it is common now for there to be 130 players on peak times.  Perhaps we have reached the limit on what the game can handle. Lag has been a systemic issue, at the best of times. During DM events it has made playing impossible. That is the simple way it is. Most of us are not involved in DM event when it is going on. All of us get to enjoy the lag from it.
      If the Devs want to keep 14th level and above out of the lower level areas, I suggest this: Split the server into two. Remove the Action server which has had at most 10 players on it at once, and replace it with the Higher level RP server. Make server 1 Level 2-10. Make server 2, level 11-20. Changing to the higher server takes place on level up to 11, and while riding the Vistani wagon, or while wandering the mist. Keep both servers the same module. That way any update to one, is made to both. Doing this will do the following: First, player counts will drop back to the 50-60 range at peak times- perfectly low enough for there to be a DM event on and not lag everyone else out. Second, you don't have to worry about high levels interacting with low levels. Third, all the server is open to the players and is level appropriate.
      Again, my post is given to help make things better.

[Khornite]

I happen to agree with people that the server would function better for Gothic Horror if the level cap was reduced to 14.

This won't do anything but make a massive amount of work for the devs, anger players, and get people to leave the server. No one likes their efforts being stripped away, especially when it takes them near a YEAR (or years!) to get there sometimes. Most high level characters know they shouldn't just swing in and screw up an event. If they do, just report them to the DMs. In the case of DM events, it's not hard to balance around a wide range of levels. I PERSONALLY have had to run events where the lowest levels were 10 and the highest were 30; if I can do it, anyone can do it. The DMs here have shown on numerous occasions that they are capable of doing just that. Higher levels don't destroy horror, powerful characters don't destroy horror. You just have to raise the stakes. Superman has had plenty of horror themed stories, Tomasi's run had two major ones. If horror can be done with SUPERMAN it can be done with anyone. Snyder had the entire Justice League in a horror story and it still worked. Mignola and Brian Augustyn had Gotham by Gaslight. The entire library of the Hellraiser storylines had no problem maintaining horror while Constantine was slapping around the equivalent of 9th and 10th tier magic. Then you got Spawn who was literally strong enough to defeat both God and Satan and the story never lost it's horror. Horror does not require characters to be weak. 'Triumph and Torment' had both Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom and the story was still tense and horrifying when it wanted to be with tons of gothic themes.

"High levels stay out at night and ruin the atmosphere of Vallaki." That is a true assessment. However did you ever wonder why the high levels do stay out at night? The answer might surprise the Dev team. It's because once a PC leaves Western Barovia, night time becomes no more dangerous for them than daylight.

The majority of the people I see outside at night in Vallaki aren't high levels. They're people who still get EXP in Vallaki. There's maybe a few people above 14, but the overwhelming majority are people who then leave the outskrits to go hit the werewolf cave, the lich tower, the crypts, etc. Most people stop being afraid of the dark once they know they can stand their own against a werewolf since the worst you see entering the outskrits (without a DM or MPC) is a trip of werewolves and some grimishka. The problem is that people memorize spawns, then RP according to memorizing those spawns. This ain't a problem of high levels, low levels do it far more often. That said, I do want night to be more deadly in other domains. Or like Sithicus where the DAY is more deadly than the night.

I mean, just in this thread alone, we see tons of people saying that the low levels staying out at night can't fight the MPCs that come to terrorize the outskirts.

[herkles]

what about new areas?

In Barovia there is Zeidenburg, Krezk, Immol, Teufeldorf.
For outside of Barovia, we could have Levekrest in Borca, Bergovitsa in Nova Vaasa, Curriculo in Invidia, Karg in Darkon, somewhere else?

[ruefuny]

I'll weigh in even though some are not going to like my opinion...

You can't upvote or like posts or whatever so uhh
I agree with every point I have context for in this, this is comprehensive

[MAB77]

I'd like to remind everyone that the forum is not the place to publicly criticize the portrayal of characters by other players or reveal in character details.

Concerns are to be directed to DMs or the CCs.

I will remove all posts that refered to an event that was mentioned.

[PrimetheGrime]

I would be interested in hearing why players choose to level up past level 14 if they are playing a character they intend never to move from a level 14 area.

It's going to make DM encounters awkward, it's going to make things awkward for other players, it's going to make events awkward.

Why not simply cap yourselves at level 14? You'll still be the most powerful people in the outskirts? What's the motivation for stopping the climb at level 20, rather than at level 14?

Then you're still level appropriate for where you want to be - You can enjoy the same RP, the same setting. Progression has to stop somewhere, we don't have infinate levels. What's the motivation for ourlevelling by your own choosing, the area where you choose to be?

The simplest reason I can give you from experience, is levels dictate much antagonistic roleplay. Capping at 14 might sound like a swell idea when you have access to the great wider world, but when you are knee deep in Barovia knowing that if you leave where you've secluded yourself you have a high probability of being attacked either on the road or when you reach your destination. This isn't wild paranoia either. With so many high levels around the areas of Vallaki who have either already hit the big 2 0 or are close enough to it, it doesn't matter as much that they cannot gain rpxp in vallaki, because they can leave for either the Mist Camp or Dementlieu and the problem is solved. It's not such a simple task for those that choose to make themselves antagonist pc's for stories sake. It would be nice if we didn't have to worry about our levels to tell a story, but we do.

[Rifkin]

Why not introduce a mechanic, you could make some kind of reasoning around it being the Dark Powers, Strahd, or the Mists themselves. Leave it open ended even.

Apply a debuff to any character over level 14 in Barovia, have varying degrees of it:

levels 15-16: Oppressing Darkness: effectively a curse effect that disappears when the player leaves the domain of Barovia
levels 17-18: Sickening Paranoia: this gets topped onto the previous effect, this is a disease type of effect that grows worse the longer the character stays in Barovia, it disappates as if a bad dream when they leave
levels 19-20: Poisoned Thoughts: This is a poison effect that drains constitution the longer that the character stays in Barovia. Eventually the character would be reduced to 3 CON if they stick around too long.

All effects above would be Supernaturl (e.g. cannot be cured/dispelled)

Thoughts?

[Kiyosa]

Why not introduce a mechanic, you could make some kind of reasoning around it being the Dark Powers, Strahd, or the Mists themselves. Leave it open ended even.

Apply a debuff to any character over level 14 in Barovia, have varying degrees of it:

levels 15-16: Oppressing Darkness: effectively a curse effect that disappears when the player leaves the domain of Barovia
levels 17-18: Sickening Paranoia: this gets topped onto the previous effect, this is a disease type of effect that grows worse the longer the character stays in Barovia, it disappates as if a bad dream when they leave
levels 19-20: Poisoned Thoughts: This is a poison effect that drains constitution the longer that the character stays in Barovia. Eventually the character would be reduced to 3 CON if they stick around too long.

All effects above would be Supernaturl (e.g. cannot be cured/dispelled)

Thoughts?

It is important to note also that the goal is not to forcibly prevent interactions between high and low levels. A mechanical barrier that would force high levels out is not in our philosophy.

I think that right now, as things stand and without having to shift the entirety of Barovia level-wise, adhering to the simple guidelines would be best. You're a high level at the Outskirts because your character has reasons to be there? Fine. Just don't disrupt low level activity by pampering them or opposing A/MPCs. At least until a better solution is found.

[Plunger]

Guess who does that. Hint: they get experience in Vallaki just by existing.

I'm not calling anyone out, but you have to realise this stuff already happens, has happened for years, and it's not the "mist campoids."

Without naming names, it is far more frequently 'mist campoids' than it is MPC/AMPC's that started in Barovia.

This won't do anything but make a massive amount of work for the devs, anger players, and get people to leave the server. No one likes their efforts being stripped away, especially when it takes them near a YEAR (or years!) to get there sometimes. Most high level characters know they shouldn't just swing in and screw up an event. If they do, just report them to the DMs. In the case of DM events, it's not hard to balance around a wide range of levels. I PERSONALLY have had to run events where the lowest levels were 10 and the highest were 30; if I can do it, anyone can do it. The DMs here have shown on numerous occasions that they are capable of doing just that. Higher levels don't destroy horror, powerful characters don't destroy horror. You just have to raise the stakes. Superman has had plenty of horror themed stories, Tomasi's run had two major ones. If horror can be done with SUPERMAN it can be done with anyone. Snyder had the entire Justice League in a horror story and it still worked. Mignola and Brian Augustyn had Gotham by Gaslight. The entire library of the Hellraiser storylines had no problem maintaining horror while Constantine was slapping around the equivalent of 9th and 10th tier magic. Then you got Spawn who was literally strong enough to defeat both God and Satan and the story never lost it's horror. Horror does not require characters to be weak. 'Triumph and Torment' had both Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom and the story was still tense and horrifying when it wanted to be with tons of gothic themes.

It is important to note also that the goal is not to forcibly prevent interactions between high and low levels. A mechanical barrier that would force high levels out is not in our philosophy. On the contrary, we understand higher levels play an important part in being patrons and support for lower levels. That's a dynamic we do not wish to impede. Though we'd wish those higher levels be more conscious of their roles. If a lower level comes to you for help, don't hunt the monster for them, but train them in doing so, equip them, teach them, ward them, but let them band together to deal with the treat. Unless of course the AMPC is careless enough to challenge you directly.

I'm under the impression that it's not technically a rule break for them to do so, but if a DM can chime in and clarify if it a reportable offense I think it would go a long way.

[Kiyosa]

I'm under the impression that it's not technically a rule break for them to do so, but if a DM can chime in and clarify if it a reportable offense I think it would go a long way.

Not everything should be a reportable offense for people to be considerate of both the setting and the experience of others. The manifest explains the how and why quite well, I think.

[Plunger]

I'm under the impression that it's not technically a rule break for them to do so, but if a DM can chime in and clarify if it a reportable offense I think it would go a long way.

Not everything should be a reportable offense for people to be considerate of both the setting and the experience of others. The manifest explains the how and why quite well, I think.

Seems a bit of a contradiction then? If it's against the server manifest then it should be a reportable offense, at which point I'll make sure to screenshot these interactions in the future and forward them to the DM team.

[Kiyosa]

I'm under the impression that it's not technically a rule break for them to do so, but if a DM can chime in and clarify if it a reportable offense I think it would go a long way.

Not everything should be a reportable offense for people to be considerate of both the setting and the experience of others. The manifest explains the how and why quite well, I think.

Seems a bit of a contradiction then? If it's against the server manifest then it should be a reportable offense, at which point I'll make sure to screenshot these interactions in the future and forward them to the DM team.

The manifest appeals to people's common sense and curtesy. It doesn't list rules. You're welcome to screenshot it all and report it though.

[SardineTheAncestor]

I would be interested in hearing why players choose to level up past level 14 if they are playing a character they intend never to move from a level 14 area.

It's going to make DM encounters awkward, it's going to make things awkward for other players, it's going to make events awkward.

Why not simply cap yourselves at level 14? You'll still be the most powerful people in the outskirts? What's the motivation for stopping the climb at level 20, rather than at level 14?

Then you're still level appropriate for where you want to be - You can enjoy the same RP, the same setting. Progression has to stop somewhere, we don't have infinate levels. What's the motivation for ourlevelling by your own choosing, the area where you choose to be?

The simplest reason I can give you from experience, is levels dictate much antagonistic roleplay. Capping at 14 might sound like a swell idea when you have access to the great wider world, but when you are knee deep in Barovia knowing that if you leave where you've secluded yourself you have a high probability of being attacked either on the road or when you reach your destination. This isn't wild paranoia either. With so many high levels around the areas of Vallaki who have either already hit the big 2 0 or are close enough to it, it doesn't matter as much that they cannot gain rpxp in vallaki, because they can leave for either the Mist Camp or Dementlieu and the problem is solved. It's not such a simple task for those that choose to make themselves antagonist pc's for stories sake. It would be nice if we didn't have to worry about our levels to tell a story, but we do.

Gotta agree, this affects all alignments and all playstyles.

Also, consider that many people don't choose to outlevel Barovia, it actually just kind of happens, and they're definitely not doing it to inconvenience everyone else and make things awkward.

DMs often grant XP for their events, and you can even find dungeons within 5 minutes of travel from the outskirts that grant XP to level 14s.

If anything, the current design aggravating people because they must leave to progress creates worse consequences than letting people gain experience at the slow trickle RP XP provides. Case in point, one of our very own Community Council members is under the impression that returning to Vallaki is a borderline bad faith move that's making everyone else's life harder around us.

What I don't see that's apparently so alluring is this paradox. This paradox that devs put in hours and hours of hard work to create dungeons and adventures, some intended for high levels, but if you like RPing in Barovia it's not for you. And if you do go to check things out and come back, you find yourself overleveled and you're made to believe you're ruining everything. There's a stigma around being a high level on the server, and if you try to roleplay with people too low a level you are constantly reminded that you are impeding their progress and trivialising their roleplay and making their story all about you.

So to solve this conundrum, you go hang out with the people who are interested in having you around. Those people are without a hub, told the same as you, they're too high level for Barovia, so they naturally go from part-time to full-time adventurers, while the people they leveled up with "in the IC way" have probably quit the server or changed to other characters, leaving them stranded if they choose to continue playing the same one and hold onto whatever shred of continuity they have left. We mystify these people, we invent reasons not to understand their playstyle. I see them called non-roleplayers, yet I see them leap at the occasion to take risks, not for dominance, but for fun.

Just because they enjoy that group adventuring experience and making new connections through this method doesn't make them problem players who offend the setting. They are using the means available to them and they show restraint around others because they understand what it means to be forgotten and have their RP invalidated and trivialised endlessly by critics, they wouldn't wish to inflict that upon anyone else. While the RP XP situation may never change, I urge everyone reading this post to reconsider the effects of making inaccurate, baseless accusations that moderators ultimately have to delete. These discussions aren't worth having in the first place if we can't have a basic level of respect for each other in a game that's not just about us, but other people too. A lot of whom are subjected to way too many harsh comments, either directly or in passing, that they did nothing to deserve.

[FinalHeaven]

I'm under the impression that it's not technically a rule break for them to do so, but if a DM can chime in and clarify if it a reportable offense I think it would go a long way.

Not everything should be a reportable offense for people to be considerate of both the setting and the experience of others. The manifest explains the how and why quite well, I think.

Seems a bit of a contradiction then? If it's against the server manifest then it should be a reportable offense, at which point I'll make sure to screenshot these interactions in the future and forward them to the DM team.

Calling out specific PCs and ongoing events is also against the rules and a reportable offense so the irony here is fascinating.

This thread seems to be a bit redundant at this point. 

[JustMonika]

I would be interested in hearing why players choose to level up past level 14 if they are playing a character they intend never to move from a level 14 area.

It's going to make DM encounters awkward, it's going to make things awkward for other players, it's going to make events awkward.

Why not simply cap yourselves at level 14? You'll still be the most powerful people in the outskirts? What's the motivation for stopping the climb at level 20, rather than at level 14?

Then you're still level appropriate for where you want to be - You can enjoy the same RP, the same setting. Progression has to stop somewhere, we don't have infinate levels. What's the motivation for ourlevelling by your own choosing, the area where you choose to be?

The simplest reason I can give you from experience, is levels dictate much antagonistic roleplay. Capping at 14 might sound like a swell idea when you have access to the great wider world, but when you are knee deep in Barovia knowing that if you leave where you've secluded yourself you have a high probability of being attacked either on the road or when you reach your destination. This isn't wild paranoia either. With so many high levels around the areas of Vallaki who have either already hit the big 2 0 or are close enough to it, it doesn't matter as much that they cannot gain rpxp in vallaki, because they can leave for either the Mist Camp or Dementlieu and the problem is solved. It's not such a simple task for those that choose to make themselves antagonist pc's for stories sake. It would be nice if we didn't have to worry about our levels to tell a story, but we do.

Gotta agree, this affects all alignments and all playstyles.

Also, consider that many people don't choose to outlevel Barovia, it actually just kind of happens, and they're definitely not doing it to inconvenience everyone else and make things awkward.

I have to dispute this. You can, absoultely earn additional XP from a variety of non RPXP means. But you don't not choose. To level up you have to click the level up button. Becoming higher than level 14 is 100% a choice. If you want to remain in an area designed for level 14 PCs, you can choose not to level higher than that.

If you do choose to level up, then just consider if it's really the right thing to do if you PC is intending to remain in the area.

Almost everyone whose commented in this thread has highlighted the reason they 'Need' those extra levels to entirely be down to PvP concerns. Be those AMPCs they want to protect themselves from, other other level inappropriate PCs discounting them, their RP, or simply stomping on them.

It seems if those concerns were addressed, perhaps people wouldn't feel the need to be overleveled in the first place?

[mooner]

I have to dispute this. You can, absoultely earn additional XP from a variety of non RPXP means. But you don't not choose. To level up you have to click the level up button. Becoming higher than level 14 is 100% a choice. If you want to remain in an area designed for level 14 PCs, you can choose not to level higher than that.

If you do choose to level up, then just consider if it's really the right thing to do if you PC is intending to remain in the area.

Almost everyone whose commented in this thread has highlighted the reason they 'Need' those extra levels to entirely be down to PvP concerns. Be those AMPCs they want to protect themselves from, other other level inappropriate PCs discounting them, their RP, or simply stomping on them.

It seems if those concerns were addressed, perhaps people wouldn't feel the need to be overleveled in the first place?

I'm not so sure about this - I can imagine it is going to be such a tiny fraction of players who would even consider choosing not to level up. You're right in that it's possible, but there are absolutely no advantages to doing so besides potentially not stomping on antagonists/MPCs, but even that is offset by the fact that most other people are going to continue levelling up. It is a very strange notion considering the sheer amount of time investment you need to put in to obtain those higher levels, and a complete waste if you do ever decide to move areas - or even just partake in higher level DM plots.

One of the quoted posts hits the nail on the head that these kind of things can just happen. You might find a new group to RP with, your old one might drift apart or there might be a development in your faction that places your attention on a new area. I can't say with much optimism that simply hoping people will choose not to level up will work, unless there are mechanical changes like a lowered level cap, and that has problems of its own.

On an unrelated point, I also wouldn't support any proposals to split the playerbase - especially not along the lines of level. I've roleplayed with plenty of characters who are level 10, level 14+ from levels as low as 2-4, and segregating them would definitely have ruined a lot of my roleplay considering we roleplayed together very frequently.

[Khornite]

Guess who does that. Hint: they get experience in Vallaki just by existing.

I'm not calling anyone out, but you have to realise this stuff already happens, has happened for years, and it's not the "mist campoids."

Without naming names, it is far more frequently 'mist campoids' than it is MPC/AMPC's that started in Barovia.

Can we stop acting like "people who are in the mist camp" are something bad? A lot of characters have no choice but to linger in the mist camp or they never see a drop of RP. As soon as characters are leveled out of Vallaki, they're told to go to the mist camp or Port and not all characters work in Port. Port, in a lot of ways, is MORE restrictive than Barovia and consequences in Port are much more harsh than in Vallaki. You can be ostracizeded in Port for literally wearing the wrong colors or the wrong style outfits. This "people in mist camp bad" mentality is just an "us vs them" situation that doesn't help the server.

I'm under the impression that it's not technically a rule break for them to do so, but if a DM can chime in and clarify if it a reportable offense I think it would go a long way.

If a high level intentionally comes to Vallaki and is disruptive to RP cause they walk in on an event and just stomp through everything, start pointless fights and PVP people, or butcher a fresh AMPC, that seems to be disruptive to me and worth bringing to a DM. A lot of higher level characters understand this and intentionally don't get involved with AMPCs/MPCs or DM events in the area BECAUSE they understand this. Or if they do, they are mindful of their position and try to help the RP, not force out lower levels.

[SardineTheAncestor]

I have to dispute this. You can, absoultely earn additional XP from a variety of non RPXP means. But you don't not choose. To level up you have to click the level up button. Becoming higher than level 14 is 100% a choice. If you want to remain in an area designed for level 14 PCs, you can choose not to level higher than that.

If you do choose to level up, then just consider if it's really the right thing to do if you PC is intending to remain in the area.

Almost everyone whose commented in this thread has highlighted the reason they 'Need' those extra levels to entirely be down to PvP concerns. Be those AMPCs they want to protect themselves from, other other level inappropriate PCs discounting them, their RP, or simply stomping on them.

It seems if those concerns were addressed, perhaps people wouldn't feel the need to be overleveled in the first place?

I never said you can't earn RP XP from non-RPXP means, actually I said you could very easily one line down from where you cut off my post.

I don't think you're gonna convince anyone to hold levels for anything but prestige classes, and even then most people are dumbfounded when they hear you are expected to if you don't want to be downleveled when the time comes.

Most people who end up at a high level and continue to play in Barovia aren't doing it to protect themselves or make victory certain the moment conflict occurs, they do it to keep up with everyone around them. We even treat Barovia as the adventure-centric domain and Port the intrigue-centric domain, yet Port characters get carried through Har'Akir from the early levels just like characters starting in Barovia get carried through the crypts. Wherever they play, many high levels quickly come to terms with the fact that their power level is too high and they rein it in on their own. They don't need to be told they are overleveled and to erase months and months of completely valid roleplayed progress. Being a high level is not non-RP, especially not with the lengths these players go to so that they aren't gatecrashing every little thing that happens. You'd be surprised how many people just give up and make new characters or play on other servers instead of silently taking the abuse. You'd be surprised how many more continue to because they feel lost and want to have fun more than they want to be condescended to and told it's them who's been doing something wrong all along.

[bloodless]

I tried and failed to formulate a coherent argument and clear thoughts on this, so here are some points and maybe rambles from someone who has been dreading 14 since being slapped by reduced rp exp at 13 out of nowhere, and reached it earlier today for the first time.

First things first, no amount of negative OOC reinforcement will change my IC reality. Everything I did at level 10-13 I still do at 14, and probably will at 16 too*. By that I mean the people I play with, the places I frequent, and the dungeons I go to.
*barring any unforeseen IC changes

I get it that anything beyond 14 is considered a nice to have, but being told that while some are facilitated in getting these things that are nice to have, while I'm being penalized in getting them while we do by and large the same things in different form and space, is a bit of a bad feel. A sort of slap in the face, if you will. To be told that I shouldn't want them is kind of an insult. So what if I don't need it? Nobody needs it, not really. It's still a nice to have, and I still want it. I will live with my decisions, I will be slower than my peers who choose to emigrate for greener pastures that do not fit my own character half as well as his current environment. But it is a weird double standard being punished for a presumed crime that I have yet to commit.**
**If I have thrown a plot/(a)MPC out of whack, my apologies. To the best of my knowledge this has not happened, I do try to exercise what is considered common good sense in not meddling in affairs that my character would be mechanically too good for. Just as I was doing it at levels 10 and onward. Just as I plan to do it if one day I manage to reach 20 before closure.

[PrimetheGrime]

I would be interested in hearing why players choose to level up past level 14 if they are playing a character they intend never to move from a level 14 area.

It's going to make DM encounters awkward, it's going to make things awkward for other players, it's going to make events awkward.

Why not simply cap yourselves at level 14? You'll still be the most powerful people in the outskirts? What's the motivation for stopping the climb at level 20, rather than at level 14?

Then you're still level appropriate for where you want to be - You can enjoy the same RP, the same setting. Progression has to stop somewhere, we don't have infinate levels. What's the motivation for ourlevelling by your own choosing, the area where you choose to be?

The simplest reason I can give you from experience, is levels dictate much antagonistic roleplay. Capping at 14 might sound like a swell idea when you have access to the great wider world, but when you are knee deep in Barovia knowing that if you leave where you've secluded yourself you have a high probability of being attacked either on the road or when you reach your destination. This isn't wild paranoia either. With so many high levels around the areas of Vallaki who have either already hit the big 2 0 or are close enough to it, it doesn't matter as much that they cannot gain rpxp in vallaki, because they can leave for either the Mist Camp or Dementlieu and the problem is solved. It's not such a simple task for those that choose to make themselves antagonist pc's for stories sake. It would be nice if we didn't have to worry about our levels to tell a story, but we do.

Gotta agree, this affects all alignments and all playstyles.

Also, consider that many people don't choose to outlevel Barovia, it actually just kind of happens, and they're definitely not doing it to inconvenience everyone else and make things awkward.

I have to dispute this. You can, absoultely earn additional XP from a variety of non RPXP means. But you don't not choose. To level up you have to click the level up button. Becoming higher than level 14 is 100% a choice. If you want to remain in an area designed for level 14 PCs, you can choose not to level higher than that.

If you do choose to level up, then just consider if it's really the right thing to do if you PC is intending to remain in the area.

Almost everyone whose commented in this thread has highlighted the reason they 'Need' those extra levels to entirely be down to PvP concerns. Be those AMPCs they want to protect themselves from, other other level inappropriate PCs discounting them, their RP, or simply stomping on them.

It seems if those concerns were addressed, perhaps people wouldn't feel the need to be overleveled in the first place?

I think you're missing the point. Yes we do choose to level up, but it is 'required' to survive the antagonist lifestyle. If I were for instance, to have kept my BG at 14, he would have been destroyed very quickly by overeager adventurers. It's not necessarily those adventurers fault. They haven't a way to gauge what level I am, they just see a big bad causing trouble and are keen to put a stop to it as they very well should. Whether you like it or not, PvP concerns are a big factor to why levels are important. It's not about being swole for DM plots, those get balanced depending on the compositions of the player groups. It's not the same when PvP is involved. It's the wild west and you need to be ready for what comes.  These aren't really concerns that can be addressed and fixed without revamping PvP or changing level cap which is a lot of work for the devs and I can appreciate the fact they wouldn't want to.

In summary, levels are purely a PvP requirement to survive and play out your story. We have the choice to do so, but we are more or less forced to due to the nature of conflict. This isn't a bad thing, except that anywhere west of the mist wall is considered low level xp zones and so there is no rp xp gain and less reason to hang around the interesting and more or less abandoned places on the server.

[Plunger]

Can we stop acting like "people who are in the mist camp" are something bad? A lot of characters have no choice but to linger in the mist camp or they never see a drop of RP. As soon as characters are leveled out of Vallaki, they're told to go to the mist camp or Port and not all characters work in Port. Port, in a lot of ways, is MORE restrictive than Barovia and consequences in Port are much more harsh than in Vallaki. You can be ostracizeded in Port for literally wearing the wrong colors or the wrong style outfits. This "people in mist camp bad" mentality is just an "us vs them" situation that doesn't help the server.

I've never made the complaint about people roleplaying in the Mist Camps, nor will I ever make a complaint about people using that as their hub. I'm simply arguing that the vast majority of high level characters in Barovia are ones who have passed through the Mist Camp, and not MPC/AMPC's that have leveled to 17+ organically in Barovia. I don't have any hard numbers on hand, but surely the timeline for a MPC/AMPC from Barovia should be seeing the closure of their character before reaching such high power levels normally?

[Khornite]

I've never made the complaint about people roleplaying in the Mist Camps, nor will I ever make a complaint about people using that as their hub. I'm simply arguing that the vast majority of high level characters in Barovia are ones who have passed through the Mist Camp, and not MPC/AMPC's that have leveled to 17+ organically in Barovia. I don't have any hard numbers on hand, but surely the timeline for a MPC/AMPC from Barovia should be seeing the closure of their character before reaching such high power levels normally?

In my experience, most MPCs are 17+, a lot of them just understand their power and pull their punches sometimes. Otherwise they're going to get curb stomped by the sheer volume of lower levels in the outskirts. A pack of well prepared level 10-14s can easily drop a level 20 MPC if they play their cards right. And HAVE done it in the past numerous times.

[herkles]

So if the Mist Camp and Dementlieu don't work for PCs, what about new areas and domains. What about maybe Levekrest in Borca, Bergovitsa in Nova Vaasa, Curriculo in Invidia, Karg in Darkon, Forfarmax in Hazlan, or perhaps Immol and Zeidenburg in Barovia?