Dread Familiars missing stats

[Fungal Artillery]

Hello

So I was tinkering on the test server to answer a question. Does the Death Dog familiar gain magical attacks at any point? I also looked at the Worg familiar. Both of which are custom to PoTM.  The conclusion I came to is no, they do not. They should.

Every familiar type in vanilla NWN gains magical attacks at lvl 15 at the latest. Some gain +2 Enhancement Bonus at lvl 15, like the Bat. And +3 EB at level 20. The Panther gains +1 EB at level 15 and +2 at level 20. And the Pixie gains enhancement bonuses at level 1, 7 and 13.

It's likely that if the Death Dog and Worg lack these Enhancement Bonuses at level 15 onward, other PoTM specific familiars do aswell. Your silver foxes and the like.

Why does this matter? Because we all know that even the simplest common enemies on PoTM are often immune to non-magical attacks. And if one chooses their familiar to be a combat focused one, like the Death dog or the Worg, it is disheartening that these awesome Dread Familiar choices are outplayed in this simple manner.

Here you can see vanilla familiar stats https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Familiars

Here is the damage a level 20  death dog didn't do to a greater shadow fiend at the Sullen Woods. They have big DR which is overcome by +1 EB.


Edit: Pixies have been modified on PoTM, so I scratched that part.

[Fungal Artillery]

After further testing, stuff is weird.

Pseudodragons didn't have magical attacks as per NWN wiki at lvl 15.
Ravens did.
Bats did.
Ice Mephit did.

There are weird inconsistensies and it isn't clearly documented.

[inkcorvid]

As mentioned in Discord, this is a consequence of how creature weapons work. Creature weapons don't have an enhancement bonus; they check the DR of the creature that is using them.

A creature with damage reduction is able to pierce (ignore) damage reduction of others when using its creature weapons, provided the power of the other's damage reduction is the same or lower than the attacking creature's. This applies even when the creature weapons have no attack or enhancement bonuses. For example, the claw attacks of a creature with 10/+5 damage reduction will not be affected by others' damage reduction of X/+5 or lower.

Ravens, Bats, Mephits, Imps and Pixies have DR. Assassin imps start with DR 10/+2, so their claws count at +2 weapons right off the bat.

Worgs, Death Dogs, Faerie Dragons and Pseudodragons do not have DR. Even though Faerie Dragons and Pseudodragons gets +2 to their attack at lvl 15, that doesn't count.

Casting Stoneskin on a Worg would allow it to pierce +4 and under DR.

Apparently Magic Weapon (and the greater variant) doesn't work on Worgs. This is probably because the Worg's creature weapon is in its "left" slot.

This spell can be cast on seemingly unarmed creatures (such as animals) to target one of their natural weapons. The "right" slot is targeted if possible; the "bite" slot otherwise. A creature with only a "left" weapon (e.g. some polymorphs) will not benefit from this spell.

[Fungal Artillery]

Thank you Inkcorvid! That is very interesting information that changes the game.

As it stands, Hexblades have no inbuilt method of having their familiar overcome the simplest wererat.

Instead of needing to go through every familiar's levels and add DR to them, I would propose a bandaid solution.

Augment Familiar
(Complete Warrior, p. 116)

Transmutation
Level: Hexblade 1, Sorcerer 2, Wizard 2, Spellthief 2,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Your familiar
Duration: Concentration + 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell grants your familiar a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, damage reduction 5/magic, and a +2 resistance bonus on saving throws.

This spell, featured in Complete Warrior, would very much negate the issue. The DR could start at 5/+1 and increase to 5/+2 at level 15 and 5/+3 at level 20

Duration could be rounds per level, or turns per level.

Either way, this one thing would basically negate the issue.

[SardineTheAncestor]

It does become a problem that a combat familiar isn't able to face enemies without magic fang or DR. So it makes sense that a Hexblade would want a little more mileage out of their familiars which are meant to do battle. Having to rely on potions for something so basic does seem out of character, since they cannot cast Ghostly Visage or Stoneskin.

To me this looks like a classic example of a balance boulder based on the most powerful class crushing the rest.

I think I'd like to see a spell like that one introduced. I doubt it would be a noticeable buff to wizards, who have such an immense toolkit already; it may give them another thematic option but that is all. For Hexblades, it would make the "summoner" playstyle attractive, especially in groups. I also think the spell could easily be 1 hour + 1 turn/level without being overpowered, though its ability bonuses might need to be reduced; in general, familiars have very poor combat stats already, but the fighty ones can be buffed up to about the strength of a normal character if you really need it.

I think you will find it would be entirely fair if the spell granted DR like so: 5/+1 at level 4, 5/+2 at level 8, 5/+3 at level 12, 5/+4 at level 16, 5/+5 at level 20.

Pure hexblades' familiars would be able to land hits through Stoneskin, and eventually Premonition, for a little bit of extra damage that is hardly game-breaking but could be useful as ambient damage while the familiar tanks what it can.

[Hatsune]

It has always been the viewpoint as long is I've been here that familiars are not meant to be combat tools and tanks for images. Unless the teams viewpoint has changed on that I dont see any combat potential being added to familiars beyond the meager amount they have.

[Fungal Artillery]

It has always been the viewpoint as long is I've been here that familiars are not meant to be combat tools and tanks for images. Unless the teams viewpoint has changed on that I dont see any combat potential being added to familiars beyond the meager amount they have.

It's not a matter of making them dungeon viable. However by design, some familiars have the ability to overcome DR, while others do not. The most basic monster types on Ravenloft require +1 to even deal damage to them. Your wererats, ghosts, shadows, werewolves.

Introducing a spell that gave a familiar 5/+1 DR, so they could overcome DR (because that's how this apparently works), would be a drop of water in an ocean, in terms of balance.

It would however be Fun.

[SardineTheAncestor]

I thought the same too but I don't think the status quo will be negatively impacted by this change. There are many better ways to solo than rely on a squishy familiar that does minimal damage, and currently, if you want to do that as a mage, you can. Hexblades don't have the same options available, though.

A familiar that isn't instantly desummoned after casting one or two utility spells has much more potential to be a valuable part of any roleplay situation. At the moment, relatively few players whose characters can summon familiars will bother with characterisation for their familiar, even when there's no threat of them being killed. I'm not keen to instantly dismiss those players as uncreative so much as lacking incentive.

I'm supporting this because I think that if the developer team opens up more options for familiars, we might see more people give them a chance.

[DM Sinister]

Thank you Inkcorvid! That is very interesting information that changes the game.

As it stands, Hexblades have no inbuilt method of having their familiar overcome the simplest wererat.

This is not just a Hexblade issue. Wizards have had this problem since forever. The spell you proposed seems reasonable though perhaps make it a higher level casting. Perhaps 3rd spell slot to discourage the possibility of soloing the low level dungeons around valliki?