Author Topic: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?  (Read 935 times)

Myrza

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New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« on: February 21, 2021, 06:33:13 AM »
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Deadly Aim (Feat name from Pathfinder Core Rulebook)

Type of feat: general
Prerequisite: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1.

Specifics: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all ranged attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all ranged damage rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

I believe this feat can be implemented with the same penalties and bonus as the feat Power Attack, changing it as following:

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Deadly Aim

Type of feat: general
Prerequisite: Dex 13.

Specifics: A character with this feat can make powerful but ungainly ranged attacks. When the Deadly Aim is selected, it grants a +5 bonus to the ranged damage roll, but at the cost of -5 to the attack roll.

I would argue that this feat could also be used as a prerequisite feat for the Turn Undead feats, thus making it complementary for the Zen Archery Cleric builds and even for Monster Hunters.

Delita

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Re: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2021, 08:14:18 AM »
I think archery is fine as it is. I don't think it requires more power creep.

Basically compared to STR, DEX is more valuable stat because it increases a key skills (tumble, parry, hide, move silently, open lock etc), armor class, touch armor class, ranged attacks, a commonly used save. So, stacking/sky rocketing DEX is never a bad option. When you create an 18 STR character, you sacrifice a lot in order to have high damage potential. But with 18 Dex, your trade-off pays out well. If you implement this kind of feat to the game, you give Dex-based characters an unbalanced advantage.

On top of that, I believe enchanting and magical back up helps more than enough to archers. After all, they shouldn't hit as hard as close-combat fighters since they have "safety" advantage due the range between them and their enemy.

slash

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Re: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2021, 11:29:12 AM »
From a logistics perspective, how do you shoot something "harder"? I understand the concept behind a power attack in melee, but the concept doesn't really carry over to a projectile unless you're using a sling (but even then not really). Of course, you can argue that ranged attacks can hit "harder" by striking a vital area (as per the suggested feat description), but that concept is already represented by the critical hit.
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remnar

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Re: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2021, 11:53:50 AM »
Archers are plenty powerful as it is.
They can stack a varnish or damage spell onto their alchemical steel arrows for massive damage.  They can get a big mighty bonus on high tier bows that can be bought for reasonable prices - right infront of Vallaki!  Bow users can get a feat that allows for an extra free attack per round at full BAB - and only with a -2 penalty to all attacks.  Bows are also stupid light, ammo has no weight, don't use Parry as a skill so they can put points into other skills.  In addition, even a weak divine caster can become a bow god by just using Zen archery.
Crossbow users get crossbow sniper which is admittedly a pathetic feat, but it's something and as a crossbow user I do plenty of damage with special bolts, decent crossbow, and a few spells.  And anyone can use a crossbow.
I haven't seen an arcane archer but I'm sure they're even better off.

Archery is fine, if a little boring.

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Myrza

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Re: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2021, 12:10:38 PM »
From a logistics perspective, how do you shoot something "harder"? I understand the concept behind a power attack in melee, but the concept doesn't really carry over to a projectile unless you're using a sling (but even then not really). Of course, you can argue that ranged attacks can hit "harder" by striking a vital area (as per the suggested feat description), but that concept is already represented by the critical hit.

You aim for areas that would generally hurt the opponent more, which makes it harder to it but results in more damage.

Archers are plenty powerful as it is.
They can stack a varnish or damage spell onto their alchemical steel arrows for massive damage.  They can get a big mighty bonus on high-tier bows that can be bought for reasonable prices - right in front of Vallaki!  Bow users can get a feat that allows for an extra free attack per round at full BAB - and only with a -2 penalty to all attacks.  Bows are also stupid light, ammo has no weight, don't use Parry as a skill so they can put points into other skills.  In addition, even a weak divine caster can become a bow god by just using Zen archery.
Crossbow users get crossbow sniper which is admittedly a pathetic feat, but it's something and as a crossbow user I do plenty of damage with special bolts, decent crossbow, and a few spells.  And anyone can use a crossbow.
I haven't seen an arcane archer but I'm sure they're even better off.

Archery is fine, if a little boring.

These claims are easy to make but I don't think they are very true. Most archer characters would invest in parry, or use a shield because you cannot always expect someone to tank the enemies for you. While bows have little weight, someone carrying a bow would certainly carry a backup weapon, so it means that an archer will carry the weight of the bow on top of the normal equipment they are carrying. Using mighty bows requires a large ability point investment since it is hard to afford both high dexterity and high strength scores.

To make my point clear though, I don't say or think that archery is weak right now, but I also don't think that this feat is broken in any way. I just think that it can give some new play-style choices to archer characters.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 12:13:35 PM by Myrza »

BahamutZ3RO

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Re: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2021, 12:16:21 PM »
Archers can be incredibly powerful. I've had the misfortune of being one-shot (and insta-impaired) by a Ranger with alchemical ammo, Favored Enemy: Humans and Bane Bow before. It's like a greataxe that can hit from the edge of visual range. This really doesn't seem necessary.
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2021, 12:39:15 PM »
You aim for areas that would generally hurt the opponent more, which makes it harder to it but results in more damage.

This would be a dexterity/wisdom thing.

Shooting something harder with a bow is covered by the Mighty stat. It does make the crafted ones more attractive than pretty much anything in the loot table (for pure damage dealing purposes, especially against specific enemy types), but that's just the way it works here.
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Myrza

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Re: New Feat: Power Attack for Ranged Weapons?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2021, 01:11:37 PM »
You aim for areas that would generally hurt the opponent more, which makes it harder to it but results in more damage.

This would be a dexterity/wisdom thing.

Shooting something harder with a bow is covered by the Mighty stat. It does make the crafted ones more attractive than pretty much anything in the loot table (for pure damage dealing purposes, especially against specific enemy types), but that's just the way it works here.

Since archers get their attack bonus from either dexterity or wisdom, I believe this feat is representing that.