[Disguise Skill Change] Disguise as a Class Skill/Disguise versus Search

[BraveSirRobin]

I believe the simplest solution is to provide items and gear to allow Disguise to reach near the +50 cap like most other classes, and perhaps some more feats to support Disguise in general. I believe if someone wants to be a master of disguise, they should be able to invest equally into it as one may Spot, or Hide.

I also think that Listen should play some part in countering Disguise, on account of the fact that it ones' voice should be recognizable, and other tell-tale features of sound.

[EO]

Honestly i think every class should have the skill, its more of a life skill than a Class skill

Everyone can hide, everyone can parry, everyone can try to equip a magical item, everyone can lie, everyone can intimidate or taunt someone, etc. By that logic every class would have access to every skill. Skills, just like feats, spells, etc. are a balancing factor.

[Khornite]

Honestly i think every class should have the skill, its more of a life skill than a Class skill

Everyone can hide, everyone can parry, everyone can try to equip a magical item, everyone can lie, everyone can intimidate or taunt someone, etc. By that logic every class would have access to every skill. Skills, just like feats, spells, etc. are a balancing factor.

To add on to this, this reasoning here is why cross classed skills exist. Anyone can invest in any skill, but at a higher cost. It's a mechanical representation that anyone CAN use a skill, but people who specialize in it (people who have it as a class skill) will be better at it than those are not specialized in it. A skill being a class skill represents that you've some prior training in that field.

On the other hand, there are skills that are NOT "life skills" like Animal Empathy and Use Magic Device which not everyone can gain access to.

[mccarthy00]

Honestly i think every class should have the skill, its more of a life skill than a Class skill

Everyone can hide, everyone can parry, everyone can try to equip a magical item, everyone can lie, everyone can intimidate or taunt someone, etc. By that logic every class would have access to every skill. Skills, just like feats, spells, etc. are a balancing factor.

To add on to this, this reasoning here is why cross classed skills exist. Anyone can invest in any skill, but at a higher cost. It's a mechanical representation that anyone CAN use a skill, but people who specialize in it (people who have it as a class skill) will be better at it than those are not specialized in it. A skill being a class skill represents that you've some prior training in that field.

On the other hand, there are skills that are NOT "life skills" like Animal Empathy and Use Magic Device which not everyone can gain access to.

When did i say every skill? i just meant that every class over the PCs life could have training in Disguise. fair enough if you want to keep it as a cross class skill but just the fact you need to invest in this purely RP skill is balancing enough imo, A lot of the classes out there just would not have the base skill points for it and they would be making sacrifices to take it already.

[Khornite]

Honestly i think every class should have the skill, its more of a life skill than a Class skill

Everyone can hide, everyone can parry, everyone can try to equip a magical item, everyone can lie, everyone can intimidate or taunt someone, etc. By that logic every class would have access to every skill. Skills, just like feats, spells, etc. are a balancing factor.

To add on to this, this reasoning here is why cross classed skills exist. Anyone can invest in any skill, but at a higher cost. It's a mechanical representation that anyone CAN use a skill, but people who specialize in it (people who have it as a class skill) will be better at it than those are not specialized in it. A skill being a class skill represents that you've some prior training in that field.

On the other hand, there are skills that are NOT "life skills" like Animal Empathy and Use Magic Device which not everyone can gain access to.

When did i say every skill? i just meant that every class over the PCs life could have training in Disguise. fair enough if you want to keep it as a cross class skill but just the fact you need to invest in this purely RP skill is balancing enough imo, A lot of the classes out there just would not have the base skill points for it and they would be making sacrifices to take it already.

I didn't say that you said every skill. I merely was expanding on something that was already said to give an idea as to why WOTC designed a certain mechanic in a specific way.

[Dardonas]

The point I was mostly getting at was that I felt that more base classes should have access to Disguise as a class skill.  I can think of a good reason for Sorcerers to, for instance, since they are not well regarded around the Core and many would actively either disguise themselves to be avoid being ousted for witchcraft, or, in the case of Dementlieu, not being a wizard.  Since they have access to influence, which isn't one of their PnP 3e skills, I don't see why we can't indulge PotM Sorcerers Disguise.

As for other classes, I can easily see it befitting Wizards for a similar reason as Sorcerers, though to a lesser degree.  Additionally, Druid, since many Druids do shapechange to conceal their identity.  Beyond these three classes, I could maybe see a similar argument for Hexblade being made but I'm more harder pressed to explain a Fighter or Barbarian's inclination towards the skill (nor would any build for these likely have the skill points to invest into the skill).

[Hatsune]

I wish we could add Sense Motive to be a counter to disguise, rather then having it be Spot. Spot is already a counter to Hide. Ideally if such was possible, perhaps give Spot and Listen both a +2 synergy to Sense motive if you have 5 or more ranks in the skill.

[zDark Shadowz]

If you want your character to have specialized training in a skill just pick a class with that skill that actually represents that training.

You're like 5 points behind a professional by level 7, 10 points behind a professional by lvl 17 if you invest in it regardless of class.

Yes any class could have more training in disguise throughout their life, this is what both point expenditure and the Skill Focus feat is for, because this is an additional skill being picked up that lies outside the scope of the class and requires that extra effort on top of all their current studies toward their actual class.

It really just needs equipment, disguise, thats all, and like I said in my first post, the threads are open for it. There's nothing here that needs fixing, only equipment that wants adding.

It's similar to how bards and rogues have to go the extra miles to learn Shrouded Dance, a pale imitation of Hide in Plain Sight, or the extra effort expended on vocational training that, yes, every person can speak at least one language but if they want to learn more its not really something your drill instructor as a fighter is going to be teaching you as part of your standard course.

[MAB77]

And equipment you shall receive. A dozen or so items are being prepared and will be ready for the (now imminent) HAK release. These items will cover a wide range from +1 to +5 bonuses to disguise.

[zDark Shadowz]

Kewl, thanks dev team. So many gifts and we dont pay a dime.