Sorcerer Feats, Skills, and Casting

[Cerynsa]

I wanted to make a few suggestions for Sorcerers. Starting with feats that sorcerer's could increase the number of spells known for certain circles. I think a few changes to the server has made this more necessary, like Improved Invisibility is being taken from some familiars and more spells being added consistently. I've relied on my familiar so many times to be able to ward and will often no longer be able to. These things both gradually make Wizards better at buffing parties and make it more difficult for a Sorcerer to do so.

Even a feat that is able to be taken multiple times that adds a single spell known in a circle, or a few circles would be a lovely change.

Another option might be to give Sorcerer's the mass version of a spell they can cast the single target version of without taking one of those spells known. Like if I have Bull's Strength then once I could cast sixth circle spells I'd be able to cast Mass Bull's Strength without needing to spend a slot to learn it. Same with Haste, the other Animal's spells, Improved Invisibility, and Lesser Mind Blank.

I'd also suggest that Perform and maybe Disguise be added as class skills. Though, I think Perform would be the one of the two I'd like to see most.

Lastly, I think this was mentioned recently, but it seems silly that the vast majority of npcs in Port are able to distinguish a Wizard casting from a Sorcerer. Being yelled at by a child, dockworker, or others with no experience in the arcane feels immersion breaking more often than not and can distract from ongoing scenes. Gendarmes, guards, and especially students in the university, among some others make more sense in identifying it. Also, maybe if a spell is cast through still spell having almost no one be able to tell the difference.

I'm really no expert on any of these things, just wanted to make a few suggestions. Thanks!

I saw there was an old thread that addressed some of this by Phantasia who made a very good post, so I can add this to that thread instead, if it's more appropriate.

[Khornite]

+1. Mages need more spell slots.

[Lexica]

I personally also like these suggestions. More spells known for sorcerers would give them some interesting diversity, I think, and we might see some cool spells taken that otherwise would be passed over.

[Asous]

I currently play a Sorcerer at Level 16 with 20 Charisma, meaning I'm missing out on a few bonus casts many, many other people have. I use not a single item that grants Sorcerer spellslots (I've had access to the better robes and willingly passed up on them).

Getting to the point, I honestly don't think Sorcerers need more casts than they already have. They trade the ability to select what spells they have for more casts overall, and they certainly get that. The idea of giving free "mass" versions of spells seems very strong, and certainly gives them that edge over other casters. Overall, I don't see any need or reason to change Sorcerer as it is. I often buff parties of 2/3 alone and never really have any issues, since I've taken most of the metamagic feats and can juggle a few things.

There's no real reason for Perform or Disguise to be added, but adding such does no harm. Maybe this can be a class-wide change?

[Dardonas]

I’ll gladly welcome disguise as a class skill for my Sorc that crosses disguise. 

Edit: While I don’t think Sorcs get access to disguise as a PnP skill, they also don’t seem to get access to influence yet they have that regardless.  I think another class with access to disguise besides Bard, Rogue, and Assassin would be a cool addition.  Seeing as how disguise is mostly an RP skill, I don’t see it having too large of an impact and also considering you can’t find disguise item drops, having to cross class it is painful.  Sorcs also have very few useful class skills in comparison to other classes.  Beyond spellcraft and concentration, lore can be substituted out for taking identify as a spell and influence as a class skill doesn’t really offer much outside of DM events.

[Marcus Weyland]

It's always seemed silly to me that sorcs and bards who learned Mass spells don't necessarily have the single-target counterpart spells. Not sure what can be done about that, though.

The Port NPC reactions to sorcerers have always been a bit jarring and the result has been that Sorcs are stigmatized (arguably good for the setting), but other spontaneous casters like Bards (and I guess Hexblade, now?) have 0% stigma attached to them, which feels inauthentic.

I don't think sorcerer class skills should be touched, simply because class skills are grounded in canon and we don't tend to change them on PotM. If that has suddenly changed though, give Blackguards Move Silently to go with their Hide, too.

[Cerynsa]

I currently play a Sorcerer at Level 16 with 20 Charisma, meaning I'm missing out on a few bonus casts many, many other people have. I use not a single item that grants Sorcerer spellslots (I've had access to the better robes and willingly passed up on them).

Getting to the point, I honestly don't think Sorcerers need more casts than they already have. They trade the ability to select what spells they have for more casts overall, and they certainly get that. The idea of giving free "mass" versions of spells seems very strong, and certainly gives them that edge over other casters. Overall, I don't see any need or reason to change Sorcerer as it is. I often buff parties of 2/3 alone and never really have any issues, since I've taken most of the metamagic feats and can juggle a few things.

Just to clarify the feat suggestion was for more spell selections, not casts. Though, I think it could be argued that either could solve the problem, just in different ways. I just really like the idea of a possible selection of an extra spell selection for the price of a feat.

[Asous]

I currently play a Sorcerer at Level 16 with 20 Charisma, meaning I'm missing out on a few bonus casts many, many other people have. I use not a single item that grants Sorcerer spellslots (I've had access to the better robes and willingly passed up on them).

Getting to the point, I honestly don't think Sorcerers need more casts than they already have. They trade the ability to select what spells they have for more casts overall, and they certainly get that. The idea of giving free "mass" versions of spells seems very strong, and certainly gives them that edge over other casters. Overall, I don't see any need or reason to change Sorcerer as it is. I often buff parties of 2/3 alone and never really have any issues, since I've taken most of the metamagic feats and can juggle a few things.

Just to clarify the feat suggestion was for more spell selections, not casts. Though, I think it could be argued that either could solve the problem, just in different ways. I just really like the idea of a possible selection of an extra spell selection for the price of a feat.

Right - but the issue then changes to, you have too many spells and not enough casts. The ability to cast a wider range of spells is one of the perks of picking Wizard over Sorcerer.

[SardineTheAncestor]

(and I guess Hexblade, now?)

Just to confirm, hexblade casting will get you OCR in Port.

Speaking of the OCR system, I would like to see some expansion to it.

I guess I could link this old thread. There were some interesting ideas on how to improve this, but the thread kind of fizzled out, I guess people got tired of talking about the whole thing.

One thing I never understood about making new sorcerers is that they earn fewer skill points than wizards. I think it'd be cool to see them get a few more. They're usually less bookwormy than wizards which is why they get simple weapon proficiency. I think they'd have a bit more time to practice the few class skills they do have, too. Wizards typically end up with more skills than them, anyway, due to the whole maxing int thing.

Anything else, I don't have enough experience to comment on plus I'm tired but I hope this is useful brainfood.

[JustMonika]

I find you're squeezed very hard between spells that would be useful/are seen as essential, and spells it would be cool to have/character appropriate.

That means when choosing spells that suit the character, I have to forgo spells that people might expect me to actually have to be useful in a party. This is sad, as I think it tends to lead to a lot of identical sorcerer builds - Everyone takes the good spells every circle, you get 3 choices, so once you've picked those, that's it.

Wizards meanwhile, can pick up the 'cool' spells as and when they need them.

That said that's sort of the point of the difference between the classes. I don't know if I feel strongly about it being changed.

I'd rather see disguise added as a class skill - Hiding what they are is pretty key to being a sorcerer in Ravenloft.

A perform skill check when casting in port to hide what you are would be a super neat compromise too.

[EarlofEtheria]

When I want to play a specialist caster that focuses on a narrow theme of spells, Sorcerer is my choice over Wizard (a class who can bar themselves from an entire spell school). Through the limitation of spell selection I find creativity, and I feel the ability to cast limited spells more times than a Wizard reinforces a perceived mastery over a narrow spectrum of magic.

However, if Wizards got more reasons to limit their selection of spells to a theme due to feat investment (and exhibit a narrowed mastery such as with curse feats), and sorcerers more ability to broaden themselves at the price of mastery I wouldn't be one to argue against it.

[SardineTheAncestor]

I think the thing that's most frustrating is having to pick a spell at a particular level which you're only going to use on another level anyway.

That's kind of double whammy.

Giving them free mass spells as long as they learned the lower level spells would probably tune them up too much. On the other hand, giving them 1 or 2 more known spells at least at the earlier levels (4 and under?) might give them some more breathing room without increasing their power really at all.

[Vissy]

Sorcerers should just get more spells across the board. Wizards will always know way, way more spells than Sorcerers do regardless.

[HouseOfLament]

On NWN2 sorcerers can only replace one spell every two levels starting at lv 6 and the spell must be two spell levels lower than the highest spell level they can cast.  Overall I feel like sorcs have it pretty good in NWN.  The only thing I miss is being able to see my AoE when casting.  Sorry for the walking uphill both ways post but I was thankful

[Syl]

the reason you pick sorc over wizard is because they will be able to cast way, way more spells than a wizard.  Where as the wizard will have more options.

[herkles]

I wish that sorcerers had bloodlines here, both for the flavor and mechanics.