You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Lore skill and the examine tool  (Read 318 times)

gotesu

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Lore skill and the examine tool
« on: November 24, 2020, 12:13:42 PM »
Hi there

was thinking maybe it'l be nice to add information (if such is possible) about the creature being examined related to a score roll made by the observer - to add lore about the creature, it's nature, behavior, strengths and weaknesses etc.

This might give some IC aspect of studying creatures in ventures, add another cool perk for the lore skill and might foster more rp around the different types of creatures met in game.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 12:18:10 PM by gotesu »

slash

  • Gendarmerie
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2020, 01:47:37 PM »
As far as I'm aware, this is already a thing! :D
"My soul is overflowing with obeisant reverence, and Your Most Illustrious Excellency of benignity, to you I most humbly bow." -Francesco Ferdinando Alfieri.

Hypatia

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2020, 02:19:46 PM »
When Hypatia examines I get detailed info. When Galt does, itís bare bones. So I think this is a thing.

gotesu

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2020, 02:26:14 PM »
Im not talking about the info concerning stats (like looks very strong, very aware etc) I think thats a spot thing, not a lore, Im talking about lorewise things concerning the creatures you examine

Iridni Ren

  • Has put away childish things
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4391
  • When all other lights go out
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2020, 02:27:09 PM »
When examining PCs, the info displayed is Wisdom-driven.

I don't think Lore affects it.

As far as the suggestion:

1) Lore is already a valuable skill that doesn't need boosting IMO.

2) Bards are a strong class, and such a change would make them even stronger, given they are inherently good at Lore without investing points.

3) It seems pretty involved to program as described. That is, wouldn't every creature have to be coded separately?

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Maffa

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2020, 02:35:26 PM »
If anything id rather place this "skill" under lore than wisdom. what business has wisdom in determining if an enemy has a DR? Now lore, being the knowledge from other sources of things you might not have ever seen, makes for a better candidate IMO.

Iridni Ren

  • Has put away childish things
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4391
  • When all other lights go out
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2020, 02:40:58 PM »
If anything id rather place this "skill" under lore than wisdom. what business has wisdom in determining if an enemy has a DR? Now lore, being the knowledge from other sources of things you might not have ever seen, makes for a better candidate IMO.

Wis doesn't tell you things like DR, nor actual numerical values.

It gives you info based on interpreting the PC's appearance and demeanor. For example, the PC is well spoken or not.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 02:42:41 PM by Iridni Ren »

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

gotesu

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2020, 02:56:00 PM »
When examining PCs, the info displayed is Wisdom-driven.

I don't think Lore affects it.

As far as the suggestion:

1) Lore is already a valuable skill that doesn't need boosting IMO.

2) Bards are a strong class, and such a change would make them even stronger, given they are inherently good at Lore without investing points.

3) It seems pretty involved to program as described. That is, wouldn't every creature have to be coded separately?

Well, the idea is rp centerd, so I dont really mind bards knowing alot about a creature's origin/behavior/motivations etc because bards are supposed to know things, as does any character with high lore.

When , for example, a party meets a bone golem - it's logical that the unlearned fighter will not know what it is other than how it looks, while the wizard knows the origin, type, subtype and whatever lore is behind it.

but yes, it'l be alot of work to do it, as each creature type would have a unique "lore-description" just as each got a unique normal description

Iridni Ren

  • Has put away childish things
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4391
  • When all other lights go out
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 03:16:31 PM »
Spoiler: show
When examining PCs, the info displayed is Wisdom-driven.

I don't think Lore affects it.

As far as the suggestion:

1) Lore is already a valuable skill that doesn't need boosting IMO.

2) Bards are a strong class, and such a change would make them even stronger, given they are inherently good at Lore without investing points.

3) It seems pretty involved to program as described. That is, wouldn't every creature have to be coded separately?

Well, the idea is rp centerd, so I dont really mind bards knowing alot about a creature's origin/behavior/motivations etc because bards are supposed to know things, as does any character with high lore.

When , for example, a party meets a bone golem - it's logical that the unlearned fighter will not know what it is other than how it looks, while the wizard knows the origin, type, subtype and whatever lore is behind it.

but yes, it'l be alot of work to do it, as each creature type would have a unique "lore-description" just as each got a unique normal description

Although it is true that high-lore characters should know things, the Lore skill mechanically is defined as for identifying items. That's pretty valuable as is. Any DM can likewise ask a PC to use Lore to determine knowledge and recognition in specific situations.

For fair game play and diversity of classes and builds, however, the server must keep it so that classes (and skills) are relatively mechanically balanced. Bards already are perhaps the most diverse base class in the game. In terms of RP, they certainly shine between having high lore and high perform.

Casters are already generally strong as well, and most of them have Lore as a class skill.

These are minor arguments in that I don't think making Lore more valuable and giving it added utility would break the game; it incrementally tilts game play, however, in a direction that does not need adjustment. If Lore were largely useless or bards a weak class, then I'd be more supportive of Devs showing this kind of "love."

Of more concern is how the change would work and the difficulty in programming--not to mention how OOC it might become. Qualities like DR, for example, are not IC attributes (which is why Wis does not report stat numbers but word approximations).
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 03:24:21 PM by Iridni Ren »

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Maffa

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 03:17:12 PM »
If anything id rather place this "skill" under lore than wisdom. what business has wisdom in determining if an enemy has a DR? Now lore, being the knowledge from other sources of things you might not have ever seen, makes for a better candidate IMO.

Wis doesn't tell you things like DR, nor actual numerical values.

It gives you info based on interpreting the PC's appearance and demeanor. For example, the PC is well spoken or not.

Oh i thought it would give you the char sheet of the creaeture, as if it were a summon of yours... nevermind then.

ObsidianOrb

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2020, 03:36:10 PM »
Hi there

was thinking maybe it'l be nice to add information (if such is possible) about the creature being examined related to a score roll made by the observer - to add lore about the creature, it's nature, behavior, strengths and weaknesses etc.

This might give some IC aspect of studying creatures in ventures, add another cool perk for the lore skill and might foster more rp around the different types of creatures met in game.

This already happens, sometimes if you examine a creature you just see a very basic description of it, other times you will get more information, such that's its a Worg and the lore associated with it. Sometimes you even see the creature name as Huge Wolf, sometimes its Werewolf, and so on.

Kaninchen

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2020, 03:45:51 PM »
As others have, this features already exists to an extent.  I recall someone asking on Discord about why they couldn't find "Maddened Corpses" in the player handbook, and EO said because that isn't what they are called, and if you did examine on them with enough lore, you'd know what they actually are.

How extensive this is for monsters, I have no idea, as I haven't tried examining things too much with my lore gear on. :D

slash

  • Gendarmerie
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2020, 06:22:45 PM »
Hi there

was thinking maybe it'l be nice to add information (if such is possible) about the creature being examined related to a score roll made by the observer - to add lore about the creature, it's nature, behavior, strengths and weaknesses etc.

This might give some IC aspect of studying creatures in ventures, add another cool perk for the lore skill and might foster more rp around the different types of creatures met in game.

This already happens, sometimes if you examine a creature you just see a very basic description of it, other times you will get more information, such that's its a Worg and the lore associated with it. Sometimes you even see the creature name as Huge Wolf, sometimes its Werewolf, and so on.

Yes, to clarify, I was not referring to the Examine Object tool in the "Additional Actions, Targetted" menu when I said what I said. The creature descriptions you get when you examine a creature, as well as its displayed name, can be influenced by your lore skill. Some creatures will have different names and descriptions after you meet a certain lore threshold, and it will give you a more detailed lore description of the creature to reflect your investment in the skill. As for this making bards stronger in any meaningful mechanical sense, a flavour description isn't going to do that, so long as no information regarding mechanics, i.e. AC, AB, DR, etc is disclosed (which considering the intentionally opaque nature of these aspects of the server, I don't think it's really a consideration to add them).
"My soul is overflowing with obeisant reverence, and Your Most Illustrious Excellency of benignity, to you I most humbly bow." -Francesco Ferdinando Alfieri.

gotesu

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Lore skill and the examine tool
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2020, 01:22:33 AM »
Wow, didnt know it's already implemented,

thanks for the feedback!