Author Topic: Voodan  (Read 1369 times)

noah25

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Voodan
« on: November 18, 2020, 12:07:47 AM »
I really love the voodan concept and their broad spell selection but I had a few questions regarding feats:

1) They lend themselves to being a charisma heavy class. Is it in the works to expand the number of turn undead feats that apply to voodans as well that meet other requirements?

2) Obviously, content takes time and you all have released a lot lately but should we expect to see voodan specific feats in the near future?

3) I have been wondering about voodan spell slot gear. I get the sense part of the intention is for them to have a low level of spells per day, but same goes for paladins and rangers, I was curious if we can look forward to some voodan gear in the future.

Overall, I think you guys nailed this class and they fit a really unique and cool role in parties. Just curious about the long term plan for these guys.

EO

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 08:37:42 AM »
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1) They lend themselves to being a charisma heavy class. Is it in the works to expand the number of turn undead feats that apply to voodans as well that meet other requirements?

Not for the time being. That most Turn Undead feats do not work for them is intentional, not accidental. It's part of the class' balance.

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2) Obviously, content takes time and you all have released a lot lately but should we expect to see voodan specific feats in the near future?

Nothing planned; keep in mind most classes do not have specific feats aside from those automatically given at level up. Once again, a balance decision.

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3) I have been wondering about voodan spell slot gear. I get the sense part of the intention is for them to have a low level of spells per day, but same goes for paladins and rangers, I was curious if we can look forward to some voodan gear in the future.

Yeah, we need to add Voodan and Disguise gear but so far no one in the team has been interested in working on the treasuries.

noah25

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2020, 12:40:10 PM »
That's all good to know and understandable. I will keep that in mind as I flesh out my character. Thank you.

noah25

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 12:41:18 PM »
Is there a balance concern with making cleric spell slot items applicable to voodans as well with the same alignment restrictions?

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 01:43:35 PM »
I'm planning to work on adding items to the treasuries soonish. Voodan specific items are going to be added along with more disguise items.
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HopeIsTheCarrot

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 06:45:18 PM »
Sweet! Looking forward to both of those additions to the loot system!

Fungal Artillery

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2020, 04:15:23 PM »
I've been playing a Voodan since the NCE. I'm at lvl 10 now with the guy. My experience with the class has been very positive overall. The scarcity of spell slots really drives them up to be the most difficult spellcaster class to play in my opinion. They have their rewarding moments though and the versatility is sweet.

My only grievance is with the duration that Bestow Gris-Gris trinkets remain useable. Too many times I've given someone a combat buff Gris-Gris and the item's duration has faded before they used it.

I feel like a duration of Hour + turns per level would be more appropriate for the Bestow Gris-Gris items. That or make them activateable until the voodan rests, at which point he should get his spell slots back too. I was discussing this with a fellow voodan player and it's a bit annoyint that if you gave a Divine Power Gris-Gris to someone to a fight after which the party rested, you would likely not get your spell slot back during the rest.

Anyways, the class is a lot of fun to play most of the time!
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Nezmith

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2020, 09:28:09 AM »
I've leveled a Voodan to 12 and will echo all the sentiments Fungal shared.

I think the whole point of resting as a caster is to get all of your spell slots back. It's incredibly awkward to rest not long after giving a gris-gris and finding you haven't fully recovered (cue 2+ hour wait in some cases). Being unable to track how long it will be until you can get a full recovery makes giving away gris-gris at any time that *isn't* your initial buff routine an incredibly risky gamble. I think Fungal has the right idea in that they should be activateable until rest so that you get slots back, possibly also with the hour+turns timer suggested so they don't have the potential of lasting forever.

Props to EO and anyone else that has been working on the class, though. Definitely has been a blast to play.

EO

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2020, 09:32:35 AM »
I've leveled a Voodan to 12 and will echo all the sentiments Fungal shared.

I think the whole point of resting as a caster is to get all of your spell slots back. It's incredibly awkward to rest not long after giving a gris-gris and finding you haven't fully recovered (cue 2+ hour wait in some cases). Being unable to track how long it will be until you can get a full recovery makes giving away gris-gris at any time that *isn't* your initial buff routine an incredibly risky gamble. I think Fungal has the right idea in that they should be activateable until rest so that you get slots back, possibly also with the hour+turns timer suggested so they don't have the potential of lasting forever.

Props to EO and anyone else that has been working on the class, though. Definitely has been a blast to play.

Gris-Gris last a minimum of one hour but otherwise their duration is until your next "normal" rest so if when you try to rest it says you have to wait two hours then it'll last two hours (the spell effect will last its normal duration but the property will expire in two hours) and you'll be able to regain your spells when you rest after that amount of time. This is done to prevent abuse related to free rest areas since you could otherwise have an unlimited amount of Gris-Gris floating around.

Nezmith

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2020, 10:47:27 AM »

Gris-Gris last a minimum of one hour but otherwise their duration is until your next "normal" rest so if when you try to rest it says you have to wait two hours then it'll last two hours (the spell effect will last its normal duration but the property will expire in two hours) and you'll be able to regain your spells when you rest after that amount of time. This is done to prevent abuse related to free rest areas since you could otherwise have an unlimited amount of Gris-Gris floating around.

The property seems to not be lasting long enough when either of us make a gris-gris. I've recently watched a voodan hand out 3 Ram's Might gris-gris just as a warding cycle began (lasted about two minutes) only to have all 3 gris-gris go inert at the very end of that warding cycle because nobody had tried to use them until then. At the time, he was level 9 and producing CL3 gris-gris, so a shorter lasting time might make sense from a technical standpoint, but it's still incredibly problematic for another reason, which are turn+round spells.

If a voodan wants to give another player something like Divine Power or Favor, the short-lived gris-gris needs to be used immediately upon entering battle. If you want to give more than one gris-gris, you can't give them all at once or one or more will go inert during a dungeon. The only alternative is to hand them out piecemeal, which while inconvenient, also leads us to the problem that if you hand them out too late, you are once again risking the loss of one or two spell slots whenever the group is ready to rest and re-ward.

I also understand the reasoning behind locking spell slots in the first place- that's why Fungal and I are suggesting that gris-gris lose power as soon as the Voodan rests. That way they can get their spell slots back and any possibility of abuse from free-rest areas is prevented. That might require additional scripting that's out of the question, but I think it'd be a massive QOL improvement for the class.

Fungal Artillery

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2020, 11:00:28 AM »
Agreed with Nezmith. Currently this feels like the only stone in the shoe in the gameplay experience of Voodans. An increase in Bestow Gris-Gris's activateable duration would make the gameplay experience better, and would feel more like what it was perhaps intended to be. Losing spellslots to the clock running out on Gris-Gris in someone else's hands feels bad, especially when you have so few to work with that you are already planning every spell slot with strategy in mind.

I 100% understand the need to make safe rest zone related spam exploitation impossible. This is why resting feels like a good cut off point, as you're never benefitting from more than one full rest's set.
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EO

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Re: Voodan
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2020, 11:04:47 AM »
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I also understand the reasoning behind locking spell slots in the first place- that's why Fungal and I are suggesting that gris-gris lose power as soon as the Voodan rests. That way they can get their spell slots back and any possibility of abuse from free-rest areas is prevented. That might require additional scripting that's out of the question, but I think it'd be a massive QOL improvement for the class.

Ideally that's what we would have done, but the problem is that if the Voodan isn't online and/or they just relog, then the temporary property (the spell on the item) is no longer associated with the Voodan so they can rest and it won't disappear, hence the unlimited uses problem.

They should last always minimally one hour (6 minutes in-game) up to the duration of a rest cycle. There's no way around that unfortunately.

That being said, I might revise the number of spells/day to find a better spot, or the progression of spell slots. Also keep in mind we'll soon be adding Voodan gear, including slot items (like the other caster classes).
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 01:51:10 PM by EO »