Assassins and Assassinations...

[Helaman]

Presumably a potential assassin trains with another (or with a high level rogue if the multi-classer a non rogue) or prehaps... a Chirgeon (I know where I can find one) for human/demi human anatomy lessions  etc. and also by hunting off the Bounty board (possibly).

The problem is to be worth of assassination (as opposed to common garden variety murder) you'd either have to be important and/or troublesome enough for people to want to pay large sums of money to have you killed.

Know who fits into this category?Server Important NPCs and PCs.

And while making enemies is all part of the character role for an assassin, I can see this would piss off a lot of people.

Example A: A PC wants to keep his hands clean but off the Priest in the Santuary temple (Yeah, bad move! but it may be just previous to a raid so that ppl in the area can't get quick healing) so he pays a PC Assassin a large figure to do the deed.

Next thing you know, the said Assassin has a Pissed off GM demanding to know WTF?

Example B: The Assassin sets the target to hostile but uses invisiblity?Hide in Shadows to totally wipe out the target when they are vunerable (half hps or whatever). Mission accomplished... except for the player who is now on the GM channel raving about an unprovoked attack (Assassin rarely tell their victims who paid for their murder... or why). And there is a lot of agro having to take screen shots etc.

In another thread it seems that there is not a lot of Player Killings due to PC Vampires/Werewolves/Wererats etc... If this is the case (gentlemanly restraint on the Monsterous PCs part maybe? - heck, they KNOW what its like to lose a character... so I understand the sentiment) then what justification does a PC assassin have for being more cold blooded than the PC monsters? 

***Taken from a Thread on Newb Support***

I say the count moves them all to the village to keep a closer eye on them, tells the Vistani not to sell them any potions, and every once in awhile one or two can "escape".  Seriously it's a pain.  Right now it's kinda like this:

Wererats: You got Marek, who could kill damn near anything, but never seems to.  At least what he kills just sorta comes back.  One time he killed Eric, I missed the emotes being in fugue, but when I got them relayed, I had him trudge back in human form, Kill Me (this was in the older death system) and was going to stay dead but a PC cleric raised him.  Jojan, whom well, never seen in an antagonistic situation but I have heard through the grapevine.

You've got Vampires....that flap around in bat form.  Not doing much else.  Seriously, with the exception of one female vampire, I've seen more thirst for human blood, out of my pet rock.  Also, the Bait and follow me tactic, getting OLD AS HELL and is VERY BORING.  YOU monsters have used it so much now that it actually gives you away as a monster, and people make jokes about it around the beer stein an hour later.  I've been seeing more Vampire Action, when I go rat hunting and one of them wiz's by in wolf form and then runs up the ladder.

Werewolves, that do a fairly good job, BUT, since the really high level people hang out in newbie land, are at a serious disadvantage, when the 18th level wizard unloads on them.  Not to mention when all the high level Bards start singing O Fortuna

The sewer Dwellers are in the same boat as the werewolves.  Ground Zero for three or four fireballs, not to mention the RP mentioned in the SD thread, do not leave one many options.  Carrib is about the only one that can really make a run at shaking things up, and that is 30% right spells, 20% level, 35% talent, 15% blind as luck because one day, a serious power house is going to tag him.  Arcane Casters Break easy.

Haven't seen a Wight.  Might apply for one.  Just waiting for the balance point on a good PC for one, that is low enough, to not be some sort of super human powerhouse undead like the other ones that all seem to pick it up at 19th level or so, but one a bit closer to cannon.

Got all these nice antagonist players, BUT, to me at least, many are to soft hearted.  You got, professional killers, that won't kill.  Cursed must eat raw meat nightly, that won't kill.  Cannibals, that merely maim.  Blood Sucking fiends, that spend more time in the sewers then hunting blood.  It's the "I don't want to be mean".~Rex 

Its something I want to pursue but I can see it as a minefield of player-gm-game conflict.  I also would  be pissed if one of my valued characters got royally shafted...

It may enforce consequences of pissing off the wrong people a bit more throughly or it could lead to the greatest blood bath since the valentines day massacre.... and one thing that is critical to the health of the game is not having players leave or hacking on each other all the time.

[Orchson]

One idea is to simply have a hidden forum, where assassin characters can post targets. In effect, giving notice of officially having a contract. Or, before an assassination, the assassin could plant a message to the DM who's online, pointing out that he now has a contract, and will follow it through. Thus, the DM will know prior to the assassination that such a thing is to occur. However, both systems are rather slow... Beats no info though, I guess.

[JironGhrad]

while there are no "official" rules that I'm aware of regarding this subject... to my knowledge you're not allowed to assassinate someone unless you're already an assassin, which means training with an assassin and through DM quest.  As well, it has generally been frowned upon posting a bounty on another PC... and the "wanted" thread has likewise been traditionally reserved for those people that break the city/country laws.  Furthermore, people assassinating other people are likely to draw unwanted attention from the Ba'al Verzi... as well, aside from maybe 2 or 3 PCs... the only assassins are Verzi anyway

[Crule]

... and as far as player-to-player relations go, you can't spell assassin without "ass" ... (twice, even).
 

[Helaman]

... and as far as player-to-player relations go, you can't spell assassin without "ass" ... (twice, even).
 

Truer words rarely spoken... but still - you can't play an assassin without actually killing someone - and it is a gritty game.

[Iconoclast]

Developing assassins for the Ba'al Verzi would rock.  A Ba'al Verzi assassin will spend years on one assingment.  If that faction has a dm, there might be plots to look forward to.  Some players have expressed a desire for more dm interaction.  Quite a few factions have dms involved with them.  Now the dms, thanks to our cat's pajamas, have other responsibilities aside from this game.  So there are down times in game (too much of a good thing isn't any good).  However, having a character within a faction does mean that there will be dm interaction, that contributes to dynamics both personally and communally. 

Where ever there is conflict, there will be opportunity.  There is strife between the Gundarakite and Barovians.  An assassin can build a career off this conflict. 

[JironGhrad]

a side note to Iconclast's post is that the Verzi select their members carefully... so if you're interested send the PM to the DM team first and it should get directed to the correct person(s), then they can look over your characters background and present development and see if the PC will fit in... if it doesn't don't feel badly... the Vardo also like those same kind of nasty PCs (though there are going to be very few real assassins there)

[EO]

Vardo always need hitmen to get rid of troublemakers

[JipK]

Hm seems the old PvP rule is gone. I think in the case of assassinations this old rule was very useful though, because I can understand it's really frustrating you get killed within a matter of seconds without any direct related RP with your killer. The best way to solve this problem is in the victims hands; not directly contacting a DM but first contacting the killer. But this won't really help because there will always be people that will be complaining to DMs. So you need to do something yourself.

I used to do it like this, and it worked pretty well:

When you get your assassination job just send a tell to the player in question, something in the way of "Hey I'm hired by some one to assassinate you, is that allright with you?" if it's allright put the guy on Hostile. By doing this, he is aware of the fact that it's possible he's getting assassinated, so therefore he has no reason to complain to the DMs about it. Nor does he knows when and where the assassination will take place, because you'll just send the tell as soon as you got the job and not right before(or arfter) the assassination takes place. The target won't be able to keep him self buffed up and ready for defense all the time either. Doing so would be cheating anyways, but since we're all human and a lot of people will try to prevent their character from getting killed by any(most?) means even though if it's considered cheating . But because you send your tell way before the actual assassination takes place this won't be a problem. Happy assassinating!

[JipK]

(though there are going to be very few real assassins there)

Hm something off topic, but it has been bothering me for a while, what in the nine hells is a -real- assassin?

[Heretic]

Here are some guidelines as well, they make it interesting/fun for the Assassinator and assassinated.

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=5667.0

[JironGhrad]

(though there are going to be very few real assassins there)

Hm something off topic, but it has been bothering me for a while, what in the nine hells is a -real- assassin?

by that I meant the "assassin" class... since as part of the guidelines the council set, you have to be trained to take the assassin class and gain the special abilities... that's not to say that a pure rogue couldn't be an assassin, just that in order to gain the PrC (and the associated benefits) you have to train IC with someone capable of teaching those skills (which has generally been defined as someone possessing those same skills)

[JipK]

Hm allright thanks 

[Rex]

(though there are going to be very few real assassins there)

Hm something off topic, but it has been bothering me for a while, what in the nine hells is a -real- assassin?

by that I meant the "assassin" class... since as part of the guidelines the council set, you have to be trained to take the assassin class and gain the special abilities... that's not to say that a pure rogue couldn't be an assassin, just that in order to gain the PrC (and the associated benefits) you have to train IC with someone capable of teaching those skills (which has generally been defined as someone possessing those same skills)

Pure Rogue would smoke an assassin.  Especially if he sets up his skills and feats correctly. 

~Rex   

[JironGhrad]

(though there are going to be very few real assassins there)

Hm something off topic, but it has been bothering me for a while, what in the nine hells is a -real- assassin?

by that I meant the "assassin" class... since as part of the guidelines the council set, you have to be trained to take the assassin class and gain the special abilities... that's not to say that a pure rogue couldn't be an assassin, just that in order to gain the PrC (and the associated benefits) you have to train IC with someone capable of teaching those skills (which has generally been defined as someone possessing those same skills)

as a side note, the guidelines also apply to Shadowdancer: without training, you will almost certainly be denied...

[Heretic]

as a side note, the guidelines also apply to Shadowdancer: without training, you will almost certainly be denied...

The council is currently working on guidelines for writing applications.

Stay put.

[Helaman]

My character is a LONG way (like another 5 levels) from applying BUT he's got Mercer helping him with 'certain' contacts on one side... and Lomion helping him on one side with the other.. ALL in game ALL Long Term RP. I still have to prove myself to both parties.

Assuming I do well, I'll get their IN game recommendation and make it also part of my applications.

[JironGhrad]

Don't forget that learning things from someone also requires that they actually know it too...

[Ripkill]

since as part of the guidelines the council set, you have to be trained to take the assassin class and gain the special abilities...

Actually, the guidelines the council set are not exactly like that.  Originally, the assassin prestige class did not require "special training".  On this server, the rules were altered slightly regarding this, as follows:

Their spell casting abilities suggests the Assassin must ensure some sort of training to accomplish himself/herself as a lethal killer, a certain form of "arcane" study that is focused on their "killing art" as thei spell effects are generally those that make it easier to approach or kill a target, or those that aid the assassin's escape if discovered.  Organizations exist in Barovia that could "teach" this to PC characters such as the Ba'al Verzi, however I can also see this class as self-learned throughout character development, depending on the concept and as long as you weren't an assassin prior your entrance to the Mists and that -strong- character development happened to your character leading him to that path.

As you can see, with the right background, a character does not need to rely on a Ravenloft organization, an NPC, or another player to teach them.  That was quoted directly from this forum's prestige class area.

On a related note, do assassin's on this server actually learn arcane spells like they are supposed to, or do they just get the NWN version, which is spell-like abilities?  I label them as spell-like abilities, because the arcane spells of an assassin in 3.5 qualify it to learn arcane archer, but the abilities they get in NWN do not.  If you guys altered this for your server, that would be sweet.  if not, then they really should not classify as "arcane study" or "spell casting", since I've never had them interrupted in this game before or had to do concentration rolls.

[JironGhrad]

I see what is written, and my point stands... in past, (and I can speak from experience as a former councilor) "in all of the approved applications, the character had received some form of IG training suitable for granting the special skills"... and likewise that comment "appears" (and Eraldur can clarify) to be based on the information in the wiki.

As for needing training, applications were denied in past, because simply being around people who kill a lot does not teach the skills (such as blending into the target's environment) necessary to gain things like death attack.

[Heretic]

I see what is written, and my point stands... in past, (and I can speak from experience as a former councilor) "in all of the approved applications, the character had received some form of IG training suitable for granting the special skills"... and likewise that comment "appears" (and Eraldur can clarify) to be based on the information in the wiki.

As for needing training, applications were denied in past, because simply being around people who kill a lot does not teach the skills (such as blending into the target's environment) necessary to gain things like death attack.

I'd like to re-direct you to this Topic: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=5686.0

Particularly this point:

Prestige Class Applications: processing, standards, improvements.

One of the responsibilities of the council is to receive applications for the PrC.  The process has ensured that players who are granted the PrC, understand the PrC, that their motives are not purely driven by ooc reasoning, and that their characters have had sufficient role playing development leading up to the PrC.  Though the council does have the role of aproving or disaproving, our focus is on ensuring that the player is supported throughout the process. 

The council has taken steps to improve the experience for all.  We are working towards providing models of applications, so that new applicants will have a better understanding of the process.  Relevant information, lore, has also been posted in the forum as a reliable ressource: Monstrous Roleplaying Ressources and Prestige Classes Roleplaying Ressources.

One of the benefits to the PrC application process, aside from improving the overall integrity of the setting, is that the council has brought applicant characters and dms together, resulting in plot development.

One of my personal goals as Councilor was to improve the way applications were being handled. Upon arriving to the Council, I was both surprised by the level of professionalism reviewers showed, and the level of fairness in which these applications were being handled.

That's not saying, things could not improve, thus the creation and availabilty of these Lore threads and upcoming guidelines in the mix. What I also wanted, is to stress is this point specifically:

Though the council does have the role of aproving or disaproving, our focus is on ensuring that the player is supported throughout the process.

Something the council has managed to do with success thus far, and shall continue to do so.

I'll clarify; the concepts received of Assassin that were refused, the main reasons were because none of the applicants managed to demonstrate a valid concept that stood out of the mentorship mold, Assassin requires training, yet most refused justified the taking of Assassin exclusively either by:

Background: "I was an Assassin in Baldur's Gate prior being sucked by the Mists"
Foreground: "I killed a guy once, thus I am an assassin".

Takes more than that, the Prestige Class Roleplaying Ressources thread gives a good set of guidelines in that regards.

Most (Of the refused) did not manage to demonstrate in game progression as to the taking of this Prestige class; knowing the assassin, you can easily incorporate the notions of the PrC into self-training if your concept and in game motives are strong and stand out.

To resume:

Assassin: Many ways to get there.

  Strong in character development and IC motives as to the taking of the Prestige class.
  Mentorship by one.
  Be good at what you do, and you'll perhaps draw the attention of groups seeking for your talents. (Vardo, Verzi)
  Joining a secret society will increase your chances. (Vardo, Verzi)

Assassin: To avoid [Keeping in mind you were only level 1 or 2 when you go Mist snatched, or started out in the campaign]

  Avoid Epic backgrounds that justify the taking of the PrC': "I killed 476 paesants prior arriving to the Mists, I am a veteran of the killing business" [Threat roll = 1 + 2:= 3:  *Miss Mink!*]
  "I was famed for my assassinations in Baldur's Gate, I've been an assassin all my life".
  "I killed a guy once, I definitly must be an assassin".
  "I kill a lot, I am an assassin".
  "Why you, the player want to take this Prestige Class?" "-Because I want to pwn guards with my death attack!"

[JironGhrad]

thanks Eraldur... that was the point I was trying to make, gratuitous killing doesn't make an assassin, and the teaching is done by another assassin, not by people who kill a lot...

edit: to add a real-world example to that: without first learning how to fix hydraulic equipment, I can't teach someone else how to do it; nor can I read a lot of books on the subject, and then teach someone how without ever having worked on it myself... you can only teach what you actually know... and for a fun one... Dimbulb the dwarf decides he wants to learn to be an assassin.  He approaches Halfwit the Half-elf, (who once read the "Cliff's Notes" version of Assassination for Dummies and) who claims to be an assassin trainer.  After finding a "contract" they set out to collect:

Halfwit: (speaking loudly as they walk up behind the prosepective target) Now see... you gotta walk up behind the guy and just stab him a lot... but do it (raising his voice further) INCONSPICUOUSLY!

Dimbulb: (Also speaking loudly) Hey! Isn't that our guy right there in the spiffy magic robe?!

Epic Elven Wizard (Target): *Turns around* *looks at Halfwit and Dimbulb drawing their daggers* * Casts "Bigby's Hand of Molesting the Crap Out of Negnar, twice*  *smirks as Dimbulb and Halfwit expire, then continues on his way*

[Ripkill]

Right, and the only point I was making was that there is an alternative to formal training, that the Assassin prestige class can be self taught.




When I first read this thread, I took a personal interest, since I have two characters that may potentially have Assassin in their future.  Unfortunately, my information on the groups mentioned as possibilities as trainers is by no means complete, yet also shows downsides and even impossibilities.  Rather surprised there is not more information of these factions, like some sticky or something.  If there is, I missed it.  So, I resorted to searching the forums, heh.   

Vardo have no interest in outcasts (they draw too much attention)

   So, a dark elf, caliban, etc wanting to become an assassin could not turn to the Vardo.  Near as I can tell, anyways, the Vardo are not even assassins, they are collectors and traders.  Maybe a lot of rogues for "collecting", but the only info I could find on them does not mention anything about being killers for hire.

Only bards and rogues can become Red Vardo Traders.

  This kind of backs up my earlier conclusion.

As I said, not much information on them in regards to people allowed within the faction, but what I could find leads me to believe that assassins and outcasts are not among them.

Now, the Ba'al Verzi are known assassins, killers for hire, etc.  The limited description of the faction in the "About the World" section says as much, but it does not say a lot.  Most of what is mentioned throughout the forums is limited, but the fact that they are secret and you cannot find them is repeated a lot.  "They find you" I believe is how it works.  So, you can't really find them to be trained, now can you?

Verzi might, but even then a good assassin has to be able to pass as someone casual..something a tiefling or drow can't do

   Initially unrelated to this topic in the outcast subrace section, but points out something very related.  This is the only mention I saw anywhere that even made an offhand comment as to races allowed within their ranks.  I do know that Ninja assassins of the real world lived two lives.  They functioned as their normal life as a shop owner, dock worker, whatever, but they were also part of their secret society.  The Ba'al Verzi remind me of Ninja, at least from what I've been able to find about them; a secret faction of assassins that no one knows who is really a member of them.

As for being trained by another player, the only assassin I know of goes after Outcasts.  She seems to work for the guards a lot, going after criminals and such.  Not exactly the kind of assassin one would go to for training, since you are seeking to be trained as a professional killer.  But, she's the most open about her proffession and is well known.  If you were an outcast, criminal, etc, you would probably not ask her to train you, heh.

So, my conclusions were:  Vardo are not assassins, Verzi cannot be found, and a PC assassin that wont kill you on the spot for being a murderer is likewise difficult to find.  These results are what lead me to re-read the assassin prestige class listed on the forums in greater detail, thereby finding the previously mentioned loophole.

Anyways, "limited information leads to inaccurate conclusions", as we know.  So, I'd appreciate someone posting a link to where a more complete description lies for these factions, such as a sticky in the forums I missed or something.  At the very least, some sort of "who and what is allowed in the faction" kind of thing.

[EO]

It's all IC is what I'm gonna say. The Vardo have hired calibans, elven witches (even had wererats in the faction) in the past..well one caliban for the contacts. They won't hire drow though because of their reputation. There are assassins in the Vardo (quite a lot actually...I think about half of the faction are assassins at the moment) and they are mainly there to take care of problems. You can compare them to hitmen in the Mob; they're not assassins for hire neither are they professional assassins, but they perform assassinations, kidnappings and delicate operations of the like.

And you are correct about the Verzi only hiring people that can pass off as normal folks. That's the main quality of a Verzi, he can be anyone..even your brother could be a Verzi and you wouldn't know it until it is too late. They won't hire high profile criminals or outcasts because they draw a lot of attention upon themselves.

Anyhow, I suggest you quit complaining OOC and try to figure out how to get in there IC. Your character can start looking for a mentor or organizations that might hire him..he can start delving in anatomy, reading, talking to specialists, etc..you won't be spoonfed a prestige class simply because you are unhappy that your character does not fit in.

[Ravenous]

One thing that bothers me..
I now have a character that I will be either an SD and/or an assassin.. I know I can write an app for getting them approved(even though my knowledge of SDs are very limited and the PrC thread dont give much atm), but finding an in-game trainer is next to impossible.. The one active SD I know of(armand is not currently active) is not really someone my char would associate with.. Heh, not much of a prob since something can always work out..

Ok, should one apply for a PrC first or get in-game training first? Reading these posts made me think, apply first and then we will get some in-game training for you... Hell, RPing to get the PrC down is much preferred by me anyway..