Author Topic: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant  (Read 4685 times)

Lightweaver

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2020, 04:45:59 PM »
We're going to have to lock the thread if people start targeting one another. Keep the topic on point and do not insult your fellow players.

If you feel there is a character who is disruptive to the setting - regardless of level - report it to the DMs. It is a core server rule: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=2863.0

Crowl

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2020, 05:45:12 PM »
I have a character that considers herself a part of Barovia and the system feels like a punishment for my commitment to a coherent story and psychology. This feeling is often worse than the presence of high levels feels.

Does anyone else feel the same?
Because if that is the case to a larger degree, the system was a failure even if there are fewer high level PCs.

I've experienced this once, it's not entirely pleasant. And it feels unique to Barovia, too, which setting happens to be (for me at the very least) one of the ambiances I enjoy the most. It is the one that has the feeling I expected to find when joining the server. And it does not really matter what level you are. I play a character that has introduced many to the setting, and the only feedback I have received is that it has enhanced their experience and that it was very atmospheric. He is not a low level character. This seems contradictory to the idea that high levels = bad. The RP XP cap does not seem to prevent high levels from being there either, it just quite literally takes away the roleplay experience, in a roleplay server. It feels to me it's a feature that is simply punishing the most to those whose characters are very based in Barovia. My character is not rooted there to such degree. He can travel, participate in dungeons, explore other lands, and come back. And he does. Others who are 100% committed, I feel they are being punished instead for their contributions to the setting, and the community.

The only other option is French Renaissance. While there's nothing inherently wrong with it, as I've enjoyed it as well, it turns into an either/or kind of scenario. For whatever the reason, Dementlieu does not have the RP XP cap. Imagine if it had. Then again, why doesn't it? It's a lot more forgiving and feasible to make a character from Dementlieu, that stays there. And they would find it possible to not have their character progression halted in any way shape or form as far as roleplay is concerned.

I would ask, or propose, if maybe we can make another area in Barovia that holds some interest for the players around that cap if it's not going to be removed. Or a domain with a similar ambiance that, if the devs or DMs implementing the cap did not want for higher level players to linger around, they can go there to get their dose of dark gothic medieval RP instead.

The server lacks that choice at the moment.

A temporary change at least, experimental, to see how it turns out?

If a handful of characters can't be responsible with their roleplay then they should be addressed directly in the same manner someone irresponsible with their PvP would be addressed.  Beyond that, any mindset that tries to promote one set of roleplay or story over another is counter intuitive to a community.

This statement holds weight as well. It does not seem like a pleasant, or agreeable solution to me to preemptively cut off the RP XP. If there /are/ higher level players that are disruptive to the atmosphere, I think that they would have been dealt with, or will be dealt with.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, if my post was too long to read, unclear, or if it came off as sardonic. I am instead proposing a change.

What does anyone even need to be level 20 for? What is unlocked after 14 that makes a character more unique and more satisfying to roleplay? Especially for a character who isn't a combatant. I have been wondering about this for a long time. It puzzles me that anyone would want to be so high level that simply by participating in roleplay the normal way, they're liable to stomp all over lower levels, and ruin their fun if they don't practice restraint, and stand back to allow others the space they need to show their stuff.

If we go to the bottom of it, no one needs anything. Personally there are character features (in their progression) and/or certain spells that I would find pleasing to roleplay with or use. The answer to "What is unlocked after 14 that makes a character more unique and more satisfying to roleplay? Especially for a character who isn't a combatant." would be very similar to "What is unlocked after level 4, for a non-combatant?". Or any arbitrary level you decide on, when going at it.

Character progression to me, as a thing on it's own, feels rewarding. I like and enjoy that feeling of achievement when you progress towards a new level or you manage to achieve it, and you in turn unlock new features regarding to your character class. And RP XP, feels like an appropiate way to reward spending a great deal of time roleplaying instead of grinding or killing monsters for XP. It ties both together.

What I can take away from this thread is that actually no one likes the XP Cap, whatever it was supposed to do. And I am surprised. It would be good if it could be removed entirely. It only punishes those who decide to stay 100% for in-character reasons. Anyone else can go elsewhere, farm up, and then come back and do their things just the same again.
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Hathor

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2020, 05:57:39 PM »
To add to the above post on the topic of what levels add... I am probably not the only one who feels this way:

For those of us who are more hardcore roleplayers, who aren't chasing levels for pure power or combat fun, builds and a lack of levels can nevertheless affect our roleplay. Consider for example the healer who spends all his time roleplaying being a healer, who focuses on nothing else, who doesn't run off to dungeon in the mists all the time, and who is capped at level 14. Level 19 Mist Camp dungeoner comes in, throws down a heal roll or a heal spell, and continues on their day.

Theoretically the RP XP exists for people like the healer, whose roleplay should over time lead them to be a better healer.

Can you spot the problem?

It's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to others (for all sorts of skills or situations). It was a frequent point of sadness for me on my Morninglordian who regularly tended the temples and engaged in learning how to heal and practicing healing, only for people with the benefit of dungeons and extended RP XP to come in and be so much better.

FinalHeaven

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2020, 06:21:06 PM »
To add to the above post on the topic of what levels add... I am probably not the only one who feels this way:

For those of us who are more hardcore roleplayers, who aren't chasing levels for pure power or combat fun, builds and a lack of levels can nevertheless affect our roleplay. Consider for example the healer who spends all his time roleplaying being a healer, who focuses on nothing else, who doesn't run off to dungeon in the mists all the time, and who is capped at level 14. Level 19 Mist Camp dungeoner comes in, throws down a heal roll or a heal spell, and continues on their day.

Theoretically the RP XP exists for people like the healer, whose roleplay should over time lead them to be a better healer.

Can you spot the problem?

It's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to others (for all sorts of skills or situations). It was a frequent point of sadness for me on my Morninglordian who regularly tended the temples and engaged in learning how to heal and practicing healing, only for people with the benefit of dungeons and extended RP XP to come in and be so much better.

Because your choice to never (or rarely) go to a dungeon does not make you a more hardcore roleplayer. 

Disregarding the point where this mindset is a bit insulting to your fellow players, your very own example can be used to give you a valid answer on the other side of the argument.  The higher level PC can be doing the exact same kind of healer roleplay that your lower level PC is doing and still go out to a dungeon for both OOC enjoyment and IC reasons.  At which point I would absolutely expect them to be a better healer because they've actually gone out and gained experience in their chosen field, in particularly gruesome circumstances.

The circumstance of a low level healer being engaged in a scene where they're tending to a wounded character only to be interrupted by a high level ignoring their rp to simply cast the Heal spell is indeed aggravating, but not entirely unrealistic given the context of the situation.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 06:24:35 PM by FinalHeaven »



SevenStormStyle

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2020, 06:39:08 PM »
It often feels to me that every time this topic is discussed, much of the words exchanged revolve around "should we keep the 'stick' or get rid of it?", "if this 'stick' isn't doing what we want or is too harsh, what's a better one?". I feel like we would be much better served and it would encourage less hostility to maybe think about "carrots".

I agree with some of the previous posters in this thread that the big reasons high levels stay around vallaki are for its atmosphere and because it's where things are happening. I don't really believe a significant number just want to push lowbies and monsters around. The village has been directly stated before to *not* be intended to be a hub, and I get that same feeling from all other domains save Dementlieu. So if you don't have a character that just so happens to fit the very, *very* specific thing the port goes for or are playing a devoted Hazlan char, you have...the mist camp. Basically the place to arrange dungeoning and talk about things that happened in other, more interesting locations.

Instead of trying to figure out the best way to push people to leave a place, shouldn't we be devoting that energy to figuring out things that could make other places more appealing to pull them there?

(Also, on a pretty silly anecdotal note, I kind of feel like anyone strutting around at night in the WO thinking they're the bees knees is going to be in for a bad surprise at some point no matter what level they are. The DMs are very good at humbling people courtesy of the black bat, headless rider, and red mist to name just a few without getting too spoiler-y should they return)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 07:22:22 PM by SevenStormStyle »
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2020, 06:40:31 PM »
If we go to the bottom of it, no one needs anything. Personally there are character features (in their progression) and/or certain spells that I would find pleasing to roleplay with or use. The answer to "What is unlocked after 14 that makes a character more unique and more satisfying to roleplay? Especially for a character who isn't a combatant." would be very similar to "What is unlocked after level 4, for a non-combatant?". Or any arbitrary level you decide on, when going at it.

Character progression to me, as a thing on it's own, feels rewarding. I like and enjoy that feeling of achievement when you progress towards a new level or you manage to achieve it, and you in turn unlock new features regarding to your character class. And RP XP, feels like an appropiate way to reward spending a great deal of time roleplaying instead of grinding or killing monsters for XP. It ties both together.

I don't choose that level arbitrarily. Capping the server at 4 or 10 would lock us out of a lot of fun flavour feats only found here, not to mention prestige classes. Also, in my post, I outlined how most of the endgame content is still doable, save for maybe one very specific dungeon, but it can still be done in a way that the server considers traditional: ninjalooting. And the ninjalooter can have a party come with him. The dungeon could be rebalanced later if it's a severe loss, but none of the dungeons found in Sithicus are particularly long.

At level 14 you can be a 7/7 fighter/weaponmaster, a 5/9 Bard/RDD, all sorts of stuff. At the same time, while you can have all this flavour, while you're capable of completing all of the content on the server (effectively making 15+ nothing more than victory lap levels or post-enchanting levels), you don't become invincible, or even really strong enough to be disruptive. AMPCs start out one level below you, but will level up over time to close that gap.

They could also potentially be allowed to keep going past the normal character cap, so, if you want to take them on alone, you'll have to do it through roleplay or bring a huge group of people to even contend against them, and that will lead to casualties as a level 16 MPC is usually more than a match for a level 16 PC, even with enchanted gear. Depending on monster type, class, and build, of course. This would drastically reduce consequence-free ganking them into irrelevance, which may not be a huge problem, but it potentially could be. At any moment, high level players could feel spited, and they could go and gank those MPCs, who generally walk a tightrope from the day they are made, to the day they are finished. Some MPCs survive only because of the mercy of their opposition, too, and almost all of them must find ways to avoid, stall, or prolong conflict so that the story can go on for the many. This would be easier if they weren't outleveled by a good number of players that could change their mind about leaving them alive at any time.

I totally agree that it's fun to adventure with others, it's a great way to unwind and just kill some time on the server rather than playing another unrelated game. But there is progression even if you are not leveling up past 14. You're gaining money and you're spending time with your mates, learning synergy with them. You're getting used to using your spells and abilities, learning to position better, and so on. It also reduces the likelihood of huge level disparity in a party that leads to what are essentially carries, rather than a character being a guide to a dangerous area.

(edit: fixed this missing section) I think RP XP is great, I just don't see why someone has to progress to near-epic levels of power at all. And if they are going to, I think it's great that they'd like to do it over months and months of roleplay XP, as I've said before, there's really no problem with that. But there's also no clear indicator as to why they need those levels. That's the crux of my point, it's that mainly that no one really has to be above level 14, not even to be a capable, accomplished adventurer in the scope of the server, and certainly not any kind of noncombatant.

This is a difficult situation, it's why we talk about it so much, but I want to highlight the impossibility of what essentially boils down to, "high level characters remove tension/ruin roleplay/trample MPCs/make low levels feel useless, so let more high levels be made through RP XP." The unfairness of a high level ganking an MPC does not suddenly change just because there's more high levels around, in fact there's no evidence it won't get worse if the MPCs can't even really threaten anyone except the players who have their characters submit despite being high enough level to fight back with good odds of victory.

To add to the above post on the topic of what levels add... I am probably not the only one who feels this way:

For those of us who are more hardcore roleplayers, who aren't chasing levels for pure power or combat fun, builds and a lack of levels can nevertheless affect our roleplay. Consider for example the healer who spends all his time roleplaying being a healer, who focuses on nothing else, who doesn't run off to dungeon in the mists all the time, and who is capped at level 14. Level 19 Mist Camp dungeoner comes in, throws down a heal roll or a heal spell, and continues on their day.

Theoretically the RP XP exists for people like the healer, whose roleplay should over time lead them to be a better healer.

Can you spot the problem?

It's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to others (for all sorts of skills or situations). It was a frequent point of sadness for me on my Morninglordian who regularly tended the temples and engaged in learning how to heal and practicing healing, only for people with the benefit of dungeons and extended RP XP to come in and be so much better.

A level 14 character can obtain a heal skill of 17, 3 more from the skill focus, not counting their wisdom modifier or any items they have.

A level 14 character can also cast Heal. More than once, at that. Mass Heal, even, if they're using the Salvation domain. They can cast Regenerate and grow back a limb on a whim, or use Resurrection to return an impaired corpse to life.

So, no, I don't really see the problem. In fact, on my high level cleric, who asks about a person's health status before making a move to heal them, I've seen lower level characters walk up and throw a heal roll or spell at them, before the person being asked even responds to me.

I don't think that's a problem, or that it's not what a hardcore roleplayer would do. People will do as they do, and we don't have to be the first or the best to be valid. Your character's level didn't lead to you being sidelined in those situations, and neither did my character's level have anything to do with my situation; sometimes other people are doing the same thing you want to do. Having peers is okay, it does not diminish what you're doing at all.

The point of some of the content in my previous post was to point out that a higher level can mentor that lower level. It's entirely unnecessary to ruin someone else's fun, yet sometimes, whatever level we are, we do exactly the thing someone else was hoping we didn't. Accepting that our characters will meet others on their journey who will become their peers, betters, subordinates, pupils, and so on, is how factions and other groups can coexist at all, especially factions which are destined to pull in a lot of characters whose function is the same, like the Children of the Morninglord, who are healers and defenders of sacred places. If there are 3 Clerics in the faction, the highest level one is not the only one who matters, and may not even be the one most suited to being a healer, and that's totally okay. Mentorship is how a lot of people get into the groove of a prestige class too, and all the same, the student of the mentor is not invalid during the period in which they are learning from the mentor.

Because for all this, my healer has done surgery on people, at the pew closest to the door in the outskirts temple on packed days, even inviting help from other characters, who did not walk up with their Heal potions or start spamming spells and rolls to take over. If someone walks up and asks you, "Doc, what's taking so long?" you can remind them entirely IC that rushing a procedure is a bad idea, not unlike the way a doctor would respond in real life. I've had great experiences being a low level learning from higher levels, and I've also opened up my high level characters to learning from lower levels. So I do not personally identify this as a recurring enough problem to factor into my suggestion to lower the cap, or my observation that almost nobody who is a noncombatant actually needs to be able to obtain a level in which they are so far above any fresh AMPC they are basically no longer threatened.

I use the level 14 as a goalpost because of other reasons mentioned earlier in this post, and earlier posts, e.g. dungeon completion, challenge of encounters found on the road, and spell availability/metamagic balance. So while it may seem off topic, it has everything to do with the RP XP level cap, which I've never once expressed agreement with, but at the same time, it reminds me that level 15 and up don't really seem to add much.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 07:52:02 PM by SardineTheAncestor »
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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2020, 07:10:50 PM »
[Throws in unnecessary two cents]

"RP" XP is an arbitrary value, its a bonus to have it, not a penalty to not have it, and it isn't truly reflective of your efforts, only how much you type when someone else is around and how much they respond to you.

It's not XP you should 'want' to acquire, but a consequential gain so that those that are participating in more social activities will meet up to those doing more combat oriented ones.

So if content west of Vallaki for combat stops at level 14, of course the roleplay XP stops at level 14 as well?

slash

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2020, 09:27:09 PM »
This system does nothing to stop the people who already made it to level 20 from coming back and getting involved in everything Vallaki until the end of time.  And most of the time, (just from my own observations only, ok??) the people that are being least respectful to the lower level stories going on tend to be part of that max level club (and have been, for years.).  Also, regardless of what "the numbers" seem to suggest, I'll say one thing.  Every time an MPC, AMPC, or noteworthy happening appears in Vallaki, the same usual suspects show up to ram the gas pedal.  Whether it's 8 of them or 20 of them, it only takes a few to dominate the story.  Whatever this system was supposed to do, it's not doing it.  Thanks for reading my post, like and subscribe to have good luck for 20 years.

I think to testify based entirely on one's own experience, you would actually have to be around, Legion.

How consistently active have you been in, say, the last year and a half?

It's easy to throw around generalities when the rules forbid calling out individuals, but I would be hard-pressed to name eight (much less 20) 20th level PCs from "years" ago (which is what you claim) that I still see actively playing.

If Legion's activity isn't satisfactory for you, I would be happy to chime in with my own. Level 20 is a bit of an exaggeration, but there are and have been since my first day on the server a wealth of high-level characters who stick around Barovia and try their hands at the local affairs. I myself play a character who finds themselves entangled in these types of situations. And while I have not seen anyone go out of their way to derail an MPC's story or experience (from what I can tell people are doing a splendid job in exercising restraint), it certainly doesn't mean that it has never happened in the past or that it could never happen again. Furthermore, I don't think it's fair for you to discount someone's opinion simply because you don't think they are active enough for your liking. Just because you don't see someone every time they play doesn't mean they aren't, and even if he wasn't Legion is one of the most veteran members of the community, especially regarding antagonist RP, and I think they should be afforded the same courtesy everyone else here is given at the least.
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Hathor

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2020, 09:31:21 PM »
I don't think that's a problem, or that it's not what a hardcore roleplayer would do. People will do as they do, and we don't have to be the first or the best to be valid. Your character's level didn't lead to you being sidelined in those situations, and neither did my character's level have anything to do with my situation; sometimes other people are doing the same thing you want to do. Having peers is okay, it does not diminish what you're doing at all.

Can we please not imply I feel this way (bolded)? It is a bit demeaning.

The sidelining is not the issue I'm trying to highlight, it's the way levels and dungeoning affect skill and roleplay. A character who focuses on roleplaying say, a healer, will find themselves rapidly made to be the worse healer than someone who simply spent their time outside of Barovia, even if the two commit to the same amount of dungeoning time. This is an example of how level does affect RP, because now Healer A is better than Healer B due to the level cap.

And yes having peers is okay and does not diminish anything.

Quote
The point of some of the content in my previous post was to point out that a higher level can mentor that lower level. It's entirely unnecessary to ruin someone else's fun, yet sometimes, whatever level we are, we do exactly the thing someone else was hoping we didn't. Accepting that our characters will meet others on their journey who will become their peers, betters, subordinates, pupils, and so on, is how factions and other groups can coexist at all, especially factions which are destined to pull in a lot of characters whose function is the same, like the Children of the Morninglord, who are healers and defenders of sacred places. If there are 3 Clerics in the faction, the highest level one is not the only one who matters, and may not even be the one most suited to being a healer, and that's totally okay. Mentorship is how a lot of people get into the groove of a prestige class too, and all the same, the student of the mentor is not invalid during the period in which they are learning from the mentor.

Because for all this, my healer has done surgery on people, at the pew closest to the door in the outskirts temple on packed days, even inviting help from other characters, who did not walk up with their Heal potions or start spamming spells and rolls to take over. If someone walks up and asks you, "Doc, what's taking so long?" you can remind them entirely IC that rushing a procedure is a bad idea, not unlike the way a doctor would respond in real life. I've had great experiences being a low level learning from higher levels, and I've also opened up my high level characters to learning from lower levels. So I do not personally identify this as a recurring enough problem to factor into my suggestion to lower the cap, or my observation that almost nobody who is a noncombatant actually needs to be able to obtain a level in which they are so far above any fresh AMPC they are basically no longer threatened.

I use the level 14 as a goalpost because of other reasons mentioned earlier in this post, and earlier posts, e.g. dungeon completion, challenge of encounters found on the road, and spell availability/metamagic balance. So while it may seem off topic, it has everything to do with the RP XP level cap, which I've never once expressed agreement with, but at the same time, it reminds me that level 15 and up don't really seem to add much.

I think you've ultimately just missed the point of my post, which is that a level difference does affect RP. Perhaps that is my fault in not being very clear.

A level 14 healer will never be as good of a healer as a level 20 healer. That affects the RP. "What is unlocked after 14" is being better than everyone under level 14, which does, yes, affect RP.

Hathor

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2020, 09:32:52 PM »
This system does nothing to stop the people who already made it to level 20 from coming back and getting involved in everything Vallaki until the end of time.  And most of the time, (just from my own observations only, ok??) the people that are being least respectful to the lower level stories going on tend to be part of that max level club (and have been, for years.).  Also, regardless of what "the numbers" seem to suggest, I'll say one thing.  Every time an MPC, AMPC, or noteworthy happening appears in Vallaki, the same usual suspects show up to ram the gas pedal.  Whether it's 8 of them or 20 of them, it only takes a few to dominate the story.  Whatever this system was supposed to do, it's not doing it.  Thanks for reading my post, like and subscribe to have good luck for 20 years.

I think to testify based entirely on one's own experience, you would actually have to be around, Legion.

How consistently active have you been in, say, the last year and a half?

It's easy to throw around generalities when the rules forbid calling out individuals, but I would be hard-pressed to name eight (much less 20) 20th level PCs from "years" ago (which is what you claim) that I still see actively playing.

If Legion's activity isn't satisfactory for you, I would be happy to chime in with my own. Level 20 is a bit of an exaggeration, but there are and have been since my first day on the server a wealth of high-level characters who stick around Barovia and try their hands at the local affairs. I myself play a character who finds themselves entangled in these types of situations. And while I have not seen anyone go out of their way to derail an MPC's story or experience (from what I can tell people are doing a splendid job in exercising restraint), it certainly doesn't mean that it has never happened in the past or that it could never happen again. Furthermore, I don't think it's fair for you to discount someone's opinion simply because you don't think they are active enough for your liking. Just because you don't see someone every time they play doesn't mean they aren't, and even if he wasn't Legion is one of the most veteran members of the community, especially regarding antagonist RP, and I think they should be afforded the same courtesy everyone else here is given at the least.

I want to add that this is something I noticed when playing in Vallaki as well. And agree with the statements about courtesy.

Iridni Ren

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2020, 09:54:30 PM »
(Also, on a pretty silly anecdotal note, I kind of feel like anyone strutting around at night in the WO thinking they're the bees knees is going to be in for a bad surprise at some point no matter what level they are.

Now, now. I've seen Asa strut and...

emote [bees knees]

...a few times.  :mrgreen:

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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2020, 10:30:07 PM »
Can we please not imply I feel this way (bolded)? It is a bit demeaning.

We misunderstood each other.

You said you felt saddened, frequently, by the fact that healers higher level than your character were better.

When you say this, and I say your roleplay is valid anyway, that is not a demeaning implication.

I think you've ultimately just missed the point of my post, which is that a level difference does affect RP. Perhaps that is my fault in not being very clear.

A level 14 healer will never be as good of a healer as a level 20 healer. That affects the RP. "What is unlocked after 14" is being better than everyone under level 14, which does, yes, affect RP.

It does, and I agree. That's why I propose a server-wide cap of level 14 for all characters; narrow the level range, reduce the effect on RP. Reduce the possibility of ganks on MPCs, reduce the possibility of healers being utterly outclassed, reduce the workload for DMs who just want to create a balanced encounter where everyone is useful.

That said, the example you've provided is not one I agree with on how levels affect RP. I'm not underselling your experience, I've just elaborated upon how the reverse is also true. In neither of these situations was it the level of the character that mattered. What it really came down to was, as you said, courtesy.

Some people do not emote before healing others or using spells. Some people do not emote before ganking.

I think I'd rather be healed by someone who doesn't give me a chance to respond, than ganked by someone who doesn't give me a chance to respond.

Both are okay on this server, even though one leads to potentially very long term consequences.

It gets even weirder. Some characters who are opted in to PvP through bounties didn't actually do what they are charged with.

Yet everyone who finds themselves the target of a surprise Heal spell has taken damage to their hitpoints.

Also, you are not rule-bound to have a limb grow back if you are the target of a Regenerate spell. But you can't just say "no" to a corpse-hide.
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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2020, 10:57:24 PM »
Furthermore, I don't think it's fair for you to discount someone's opinion simply because you don't think they are active enough for your liking.

This is an inaccurate characterization of what I said.

How often Legion or anyone else wishes to play is purely personal preference (although I would think being a community council representative would entail greater responsibility to be attentive to the community and more active than say, me).

If someone characterizes his own opinion as based on personal observations (which is exactly what Legion did in his post), however, I think it is relevant to evaluate whether that person's observations are...timely and reflective of current play style. If someone has been largely inactive in the community over the last 18 months, then clearly that player's personal observations are dated and of little weight to present concerns. Legion is, of course, free to rebut my question by saying I am mistaken and his observations are well formed from consistent involvement during the period in question.

Moreover, certain falsifiable--and critical--claims were made about a specific segment of our player base. He asserted that somewhere from 8 to 20 "max level" players have "for years" been the "least respectful to the lower level stories" and showing up "every time" to "dominate the story."

As someone who has been playing consistently during that time, my personal observations do not agree at all with this assertion.

I would prefer disparaging statements maligning a segment of the player base who have played here for years and invested much personal time in making POTM a better community have some basis in fact and expertise, regardless of who makes them.

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Revenant

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2020, 11:31:28 PM »
Legion's post history, if nothing else, suggests that they've indeed been active in the last 18 months, Iridni.

I think as a long-term player you would also understand that this server is slow to change, when it does at all, and that there is very little practical difference in PotM at the end of 2020 as compared to the end of 2019, or even the middle of 2019.

That said, perhaps it's best to heed the warning at the top of this page and drop examinations of the qualifications of posters in favor of addressing the post itself. Legion leaned on hyperbole, certainly, but it's quite clear he wasn't saying that there were literally 8 to 20 near-max players causing issues; the suggestion seemed instead that regardless of their number, when players at that high point of progression get involved the gas pedal gets hit.
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Hathor

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2020, 11:32:41 PM »
Can we please not imply I feel this way (bolded)? It is a bit demeaning.

We misunderstood each other.

You said you felt saddened, frequently, by the fact that healers higher level than your character were better.

When you say this, and I say your roleplay is valid anyway, that is not a demeaning implication.

I think you've ultimately just missed the point of my post, which is that a level difference does affect RP. Perhaps that is my fault in not being very clear.

A level 14 healer will never be as good of a healer as a level 20 healer. That affects the RP. "What is unlocked after 14" is being better than everyone under level 14, which does, yes, affect RP.

It does, and I agree. That's why I propose a server-wide cap of level 14 for all characters; narrow the level range, reduce the effect on RP. Reduce the possibility of ganks on MPCs, reduce the possibility of healers being utterly outclassed, reduce the workload for DMs who just want to create a balanced encounter where everyone is useful.

That said, the example you've provided is not one I agree with on how levels affect RP. I'm not underselling your experience, I've just elaborated upon how the reverse is also true. In neither of these situations was it the level of the character that mattered. What it really came down to was, as you said, courtesy.

Some people do not emote before healing others or using spells. Some people do not emote before ganking.

I think I'd rather be healed by someone who doesn't give me a chance to respond, than ganked by someone who doesn't give me a chance to respond.

Both are okay on this server, even though one leads to potentially very long term consequences.

It gets even weirder. Some characters who are opted in to PvP through bounties didn't actually do what they are charged with.

Yet everyone who finds themselves the target of a surprise Heal spell has taken damage to their hitpoints.

Also, you are not rule-bound to have a limb grow back if you are the target of a Regenerate spell. But you can't just say "no" to a corpse-hide.

But I'm not talking about the courtesy of RPing out the healing or not. I'm saying it's sad to be stuck unable to become a better x y z because of an invisible XP wall due to roleplaying in Barovia.

Lightweaver

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Re: Reduced RP XP feature is redundant
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2020, 11:38:38 PM »
Well, it looks like we're done here.

We are aware this is a controversial topic but no one should take it upon themselves to voice their opinion in such a way that it shames another player or players. You're welcome to disagree with one another but you should strive to do so constructively and politely. Remember to focus on the subject of the debate and consider that all players are equal - it is not you versus one another - your attention should be on the topic at hand.

Feel free to review the Forum Rules and take it easy next time.