Feat : Dirty Focus

[Ken14]

So, this was a small thought. I'm aware that the developing team prefers implementing existing feats, but I've yet to encounter one similar to the thought I had.

Two assumptions though in terms of coding:
1)Modes of combat like Dirty Fighting are hardcoded. Can't be changed.
2)However, when the mode is activated, you can have something else activate


Name : Dirty Focus
Requirement : Dirty Fighting, Fighter Level 2
Description : When you play dirty, you commit to it with an almost impressive zeal. For as long as Dirty Fighting is active, you gain an Attack bonus equal to half your total fighter levels.

[APorg]

Playing a Fighter this month, huh?

[Ken14]

Playing a Fighter this month, huh?

Barbarian, actually. 


In all seriousness, The thought came to me when pondering that we don't really have modes to up AB. We got stuff that ups AC or Damage, but not AB, to complete the trifecta.

I guess to stay in line with those feats, we could have Dirty Focus (+1 AB for every 4 fighter levels) and .....Dirtier Focus (The OG suggestion)?

Dirty Fighting already comes with a significant disadvantage : Only one attack per round versus how many you may have at higher levels?

Aaand it'd be useful to have against those High AC enemies you may encounter  in the wild.  Or heck, if you wanna play a Iaijutsu type character, too!

[mappinger]

The one AB feat I can think of, other than more limited Weapon Focus feats, is "Martial Supremacy" which is the level 14 (for full AB classes) capstone that adds +1 AB. A +1/4 fighter levels would create a scenario of a ridic potential to hit, perhaps approximately something akin to a sure-thing in most situations if one has a lot of fighter levels.

The real problem I see with the Dirty Fighting feat - and I know this has been noted by many that I've seen on various forum posts - is that +1d4 damage to an attack is overtly blah given the trade off of eliminating one's other potential attacks. I suppose it might be sort of okay at level 2 when a character's damage output is bad and you don't have any additional attacks for this mode to affect/reduce.

But trading a second attack for +1d4 for anyone who has a decent second attack with respect to hit bonus and damage is a really REALLY bad trade off for a feat purchase.

I will note that the later 3.5 books and 4e introduced ideas of trading your additional attacks for greater damage on a single attack. But this tended to be in the realm of 2 x weapon damage rather than a paltry +1d4. 

If the +1d4 scaled to level maybe it would have some merit. I suppose this is limited to a low-level feat that is swapped out, but that's too bad because there is potential in the theme of 'fighting dirty.'

[Iridni Ren]

After checking some numbers, the feat seems over-powered to me. Consider the following ideal situation: a 20th level fighter against an opponent that can be hit only on a natural 20 and is the threshold case (meaning a +1 to AB would allow the opponent to be hit on a 19 as well). This would be when the feat would be of most benefit because all of the fighter's other attacks also need a 20 to hit, so forfeiting them is of least consequence.

In this situation, adding 10 (1/2 the fighter's BAB), increases the first attack's chance to hit to 0.55 from 0.05.

Let D = the fighter's normal average damage per hit.

The expected damage per round for the fighter without the feat is 4 x D x .05, or 0.2D.

The expected damage per round for the fighter with the feat is 1 x D x 0.55, or 0.55D.

Being able to almost triple one's damage output per round at will and indefinitely seems pretty strong. Admittedly, this is the most extreme case, but since the feat is at will, the player won't activate it in those situations that it would be detrimental.
 

[Kaninchen]

That could be one of the points, is there are too few pure high level fighters. Trying to give more incentive to go pure martial?
I'd say the numbers can be tweaked to bring more in line, but the question becomes is it a worthwhile feat/thought to have devs spend time balancing/implementing. If it is aimed at more fighters, should there be more feat tax so that it becomes more of a choice?

[Iridni Ren]

That could be one of the points, is there are too few pure high level fighters. Trying to give more incentive to go pure martial?
I'd say the numbers can be tweaked to bring more in line, but the question becomes is it a worthwhile feat/thought to have devs spend time balancing/implementing. If it is aimed at more fighters, should there be more feat tax so that it becomes more of a choice?

I doubt Devs will want to implement it for the reason Ken14 gave (not being a canon feat). But one of the risks with non-canon feats is they haven't been around enough to test how balanced they are, which is why I tried looking at numbers.

My own feeling (i.e., not as much based in math) about the feat is, given all the problems we have with the impetus to "first strike" in PvP, the feat seems possibly to exacerbate that. Although pure fighters have the most feats to spend and would therefore be able to afford it more, I could see any ganky-type PC looking for a one-shot kill employing it as well.

[Kaninchen]

Fair point, but I'd say many ganky types aren't gonna have as many fighter levels to have the math slanted as heavily in their favor as your example does.

[SardineTheAncestor]

Ganking isn't really class tied. A fighter ganks because his potions last less than ten minutes, which is a rather small window to do any kind of meaningful, atmospheric roleplay within. A caster with spells that last for 1-2 hours or more ganks because it's ideal and optimal to kill someone with an attack spell or two that they probably can't escape from.

Anyway, as far as the feat itself goes, there are very few that give AB at all, and if you could grab this on a 3/4 or 1/2 AB character multiclassing into fighter, it would be in extremely high demand. I don't know if fighters need quite that much AB though, and if you want to bank everything on one attack battojutsu style, there's a class with an action ability for that.

I think mappinger is on the right path here, if the damage of dirty fighting scaled up a bit more or something, you might see people use it more, but we have power attack for that and it has a relevant drawback.

A feat where a character becomes a master of dirty fighting techniques should be similar to sneak attacks where you deal more damage to enemies that are knocked down or blinded or something to that effect. Something properly dishonourable, not just first-strike supremacy.

[Iridni Ren]

Fair point, but I'd say many ganky types aren't gonna have as many fighter levels to have the math slanted as heavily in their favor as your example does.

It's not too shabby for non-fighters either, because of losing fewer attacks and tending to be short on AB.

For example, 11th level rogue in similar "20 to hit situation":

Rogue gets +4 to hit for AB from feat.

Without feat, expected damage = 2 X (0.05) X D = 0.1D

With feat, expected damage = 1 x (0.25) X D = 0.25 D or 2 1/2 times as much damage per round.

[Ken14]

Ganking isn't really class tied. A fighter ganks because his potions last less than ten minutes, which is a rather small window to do any kind of meaningful, atmospheric roleplay within. A caster with spells that last for 1-2 hours or more ganks because it's ideal and optimal to kill someone with an attack spell or two that they probably can't escape from.

Anyway, as far as the feat itself goes, there are very few that give AB at all, and if you could grab this on a 3/4 or 1/2 AB character multiclassing into fighter, it would be in extremely high demand. I don't know if fighters need quite that much AB though, and if you want to bank everything on one attack battojutsu style, there's a class with an action ability for that.

I think mappinger is on the right path here, if the damage of dirty fighting scaled up a bit more or something, you might see people use it more, but we have power attack for that and it has a relevant drawback.

A feat where a character becomes a master of dirty fighting techniques should be similar to sneak attacks where you deal more damage to enemies that are knocked down or blinded or something to that effect. Something properly dishonourable, not just first-strike supremacy.

Here's a thought, then. What if, instead of an AB bonus,  it gave something like 2d6 Sneak Attack damage, which stacks with other forms. The potential of doing more 'dirty' damage, but you only get one shot at it per round due to dirty fighting?

[Kaninchen]

I would not be a fan of giving not-rogues/blackguards sneak die, as that's kind of their niche.  I would also say giving them sneak die wouldn't have your desired effect, as most things on the server are sneak immune due to undead, and then all of the situational things that have to happen for sneak attacks have to happen already.

You mentioned other mode things as inspiration of sorts. Other modes have some sort of draw back to balance the boon they give.  It would make sense to stick with that sort of flavor, so maybe consider a decent boon, and then a penalty that makes sense.  Sand in the eyes has the wording along the lines of "your foe expects it, so you can't use it again for some number of rounds (10 I think?).

Maybe something like, you get an increased AB for an attack, but then your foe expects your dirty tactics, so a -AB for the next attack or two.