Author Topic: Disguise Voiceset  (Read 443 times)

SardineTheAncestor

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Disguise Voiceset
« on: July 28, 2020, 11:51:00 AM »
Someone had just suggested in Discord that it'd be cool to add "@disguise set voiceset" to our list of features for disguises.

That sounds like a solid idea to me, and if it could be implemented, it would really only be good. Voiceset abuse is an easy catch.

This would also potentially be very useful for Druids who shapeshift for combat and want to mute their voiceset while in animal forms.
(or choose animal voicesets if they exist)

Thoughts?
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Arawn

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2020, 12:15:50 PM »
Okay.
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Anthaxious

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2020, 01:58:43 PM »

WolfeJob

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2020, 04:39:29 PM »
This function is completely unnecessary. Voicesets can be changed in the OOC lounge with the @customize voiceset command.
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FoogooFish

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2020, 04:54:31 PM »
This function is completely unnecessary. Voicesets can be changed in the OOC lounge with the @customize voiceset command.

While true, someone changing a disguise on the fly won't always have access to an inn room and thus the OOC room.
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Arawn

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2020, 05:05:04 PM »
This function is completely unnecessary. Voicesets can be changed in the OOC lounge with the @customize voiceset command.

This is not only an unhelpful comment (when making something more convenient, necessary is mostly irrelevant), but a tardy one. I've already indicated I'm going to add it (in fact, I've already done so).
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Hathor

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2020, 05:14:21 PM »
This function is completely unnecessary. Voicesets can be changed in the OOC lounge with the @customize voiceset command.

This is not only an unhelpful comment (when making something more convenient, necessary is mostly irrelevant), but a tardy one. I've already indicated I'm going to add it (in fact, I've already done so).

This is pretty exciting that it's being added. Thank you! I agree, it's going to be greatly convenient.
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 10:12:40 PM »
Awesome! I think the classes besides Druids who polymorph or shapechange often will find a use for this as well, but not hearing my Druid vocalise while in animal form anymore is a huge plus alone and I think others who play them or with them will agree. Thanks for the quick response, can't wait for it to hit the server.
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ObsidianOrb

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2020, 02:22:48 PM »
Okay.

I had no idea what this meant, however I'm glad you clarified it in a later post.

Rocket

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2020, 02:35:35 PM »
Currently, disguise is broken by spot checks.

Would using a different voice warrant a listen check?

Perhaps code that checks if the player changed their voice set, will then add a listen check?

If voice set was NOT changed, then no listen check.

Duayne

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2020, 03:04:22 PM »
Currently, disguise is broken by spot checks.

Would using a different voice warrant a listen check?

Perhaps code that checks if the player changed their voice set, will then add a listen check?

If voice set was NOT changed, then no listen check.
I think thatís a good addition, but it will also incentivise ALWAYS changing voice when disguised.

Maybe lock changing voice set with disguise behind a certain disguise level, maybe 15 total? Or 10 without external factors, the same way unlocking additional disguise slots works. This will make the disguise system stronger for those who actually invest in it.

Hathor

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2020, 03:09:43 PM »
While effectively making new voice-sets mandatory would be a bit of a pain in terms of convenience, I like the idea of locking the feature behind higher levels of Disguise. As it stands, it's essentially impossible to ever get away with using Disguise, so anything that makes it a little stronger mechanically would be welcome.
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Rocket

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2020, 03:54:57 PM »
Currently, disguise is broken by spot checks.

Would using a different voice warrant a listen check?

Perhaps code that checks if the player changed their voice set, will then add a listen check?

If voice set was NOT changed, then no listen check.
I think thatís a good addition, but it will also incentivise ALWAYS changing voice when disguised.

I was actually under the presumption, it would incentivise selective use of voice changing.
The more options players have to oppose a disguise check, the easier it will break. This is paralleled by stealth mechanics.
Adding a voice change to your disguise would add one more skill check to pass to maintain your disguise.

Iridni Ren

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2020, 04:19:39 PM »
Quote
Currently, disguise is broken by spot checks.

Would using a different voice warrant a listen check?

Perhaps code that checks if the player changed their voice set, will then add a listen check?

If voice set was NOT changed, then no listen check.
I think thatís a good addition, but it will also incentivise ALWAYS changing voice when disguised.

I was actually under the presumption, it would incentivise selective use of voice changing.
The more options players have to oppose a disguise check, the easier it will break. This is paralleled by stealth mechanics.
Adding a voice change to your disguise would add one more skill check to pass to maintain your disguise.

Does that make sense, though?

If I make no attempt to disguise my voice IRL, aren't you more likely to know who I am?

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Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Duayne

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2020, 04:30:57 PM »
Quote
I was actually under the presumption, it would incentivise selective use of voice changing.
The more options players have to oppose a disguise check, the easier it will break. This is paralleled by stealth mechanics.
Adding a voice change to your disguise would add one more skill check to pass to maintain your disguise.
Quote
Does that make sense, though?

If I make no attempt to disguise my voice IRL, aren't you more likely to know who I am?

I can understand the logic behind both of these statements, the first quote being more game mechanic wise than realism. maybe something like this if it can work:

Voiceset listen check first - If it fails, you go against the full spot DC, with maybe a small added bonus from the failed listen check.

If the voiceset listen check succeeds, maybe a slightly reduced DC for the spot check since the PC suspects something.

One concern I have about introducing a listen check to this is it will likely be a factor of checking someones disguise, even if they haven't spoken.. Something would have to be done to only roll a listen check where applicable, but i'm not sure if this is possible or not.


Arawn

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2020, 04:32:46 PM »
No, no listen check will be added.
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Rocket

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2020, 05:50:41 PM »
If I make no attempt to disguise my voice IRL, aren't you more likely to know who I am?

Yes I understand and did not think of that.

I would then propose something along the lines of, when disguise player speaks, there would be listen checks.
But that would be very complicated.

Case 1:
Tom is an investigator searching for Bob the criminal.
Tom has never met Bob and does not know what Bob sounds like.
Bob is disguised as "John". Bob uses an altered voice.
Tom meets Bob who is in disguise as "John" and they talk.
Tom would supposedly be none-the-wiser about the voice change.
Bob is safely disguised and evades the law.

Case 2:
Tom is an investigator searching for Jenny the criminal.
Tom has known Jenny beforehand, a frequent petty thief at the market.
Tom knows what Jenny sounds like.
Jenny is disguised as "Mary". Jenny uses an altered voice.
Tom meets Jenny who is disguised as "Mary" and they talk.
Tom who has keen ears, recognizes Jenny's voice slipping through.
Jenny is revealed and arrested.

And to implement these, would be easier done by player RP.

@Arawn, you said no to implementing listen checks.
But do you think roleplaying vocal observance would be okay?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 05:53:32 PM by Rocket »

Hathor

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2020, 06:05:26 PM »
Quote
Currently, disguise is broken by spot checks.

Would using a different voice warrant a listen check?

Perhaps code that checks if the player changed their voice set, will then add a listen check?

If voice set was NOT changed, then no listen check.
I think thatís a good addition, but it will also incentivise ALWAYS changing voice when disguised.

I was actually under the presumption, it would incentivise selective use of voice changing.
The more options players have to oppose a disguise check, the easier it will break. This is paralleled by stealth mechanics.
Adding a voice change to your disguise would add one more skill check to pass to maintain your disguise.

Does that make sense, though?

If I make no attempt to disguise my voice IRL, aren't you more likely to know who I am?

Voice set =/= what the player is RPing as their voice. That's like saying players must change their heads every time or they look exactly the same. Built into the disguise skill is the assumption that the character sounds different depending on their abilities. Some players may even RP out their dialogue patterns very differently. But voice set is really just a mechanical thing that players hear.
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Arawn

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2020, 06:12:18 PM »
Quote
Currently, disguise is broken by spot checks.

Would using a different voice warrant a listen check?

Perhaps code that checks if the player changed their voice set, will then add a listen check?

If voice set was NOT changed, then no listen check.
I think thatís a good addition, but it will also incentivise ALWAYS changing voice when disguised.

I was actually under the presumption, it would incentivise selective use of voice changing.
The more options players have to oppose a disguise check, the easier it will break. This is paralleled by stealth mechanics.
Adding a voice change to your disguise would add one more skill check to pass to maintain your disguise.

Does that make sense, though?

If I make no attempt to disguise my voice IRL, aren't you more likely to know who I am?

Voice set =/= what the player is RPing as their voice. That's like saying players must change their heads every time or they look exactly the same. Built into the disguise skill is the assumption that the character sounds different depending on their abilities. Some players may even RP out their dialogue patterns very differently. But voice set is really just a mechanical thing that players hear.

^
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Iridni Ren

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2020, 06:29:51 PM »
Quote
Spoiler: show
Quote
Currently, disguise is broken by spot checks.

Would using a different voice warrant a listen check?

Perhaps code that checks if the player changed their voice set, will then add a listen check?

If voice set was NOT changed, then no listen check.
I think thatís a good addition, but it will also incentivise ALWAYS changing voice when disguised.

I was actually under the presumption, it would incentivise selective use of voice changing.
The more options players have to oppose a disguise check, the easier it will break. This is paralleled by stealth mechanics.
Adding a voice change to your disguise would add one more skill check to pass to maintain your disguise.

Does that make sense, though?

If I make no attempt to disguise my voice IRL, aren't you more likely to know who I am?
Voice set =/= what the player is RPing as their voice. That's like saying players must change their heads every time or they look exactly the same. Built into the disguise skill is the assumption that the character sounds different depending on their abilities. Some players may even RP out their dialogue patterns very differently. But voice set is really just a mechanical thing that players hear.

Oh I was responding to Rocket's argument for adding the second check only if a player changes voice sets. My point was that it wouldn't make any sense to penalize players who went to the trouble of "disguising" their voices and thereby making it advantageous not to.

I would assume the reason to change the voice set is to prevent some sort of metagaming or perhaps thinking it adds to the immersive illusion of the disguise. I agree that allowing players to change their voice sets is no reason to add a second way for disguise to fail.

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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2020, 03:54:03 AM »
If people want to use other voicesets on non-shapeshifted disguises, that's cool and all. I pitched this because if someone shapeshifts into the form of a Slaad, they should be able to use the voiceset for a Slaad. Same with tigers, bears, dragons, and everything else. I think it would benefit them mainly, and on the point of immersion most of all, because hearing their normal voice while they are in that form wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, even if the creature is capable of speech; their vocal chords would have changed, so their voice would change with it. Plenty of people RP this already, but their voice set does not support it.

I don't know which animals do have voicesets, but I'm sure there is a resource available somewhere.
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ObsidianOrb

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2020, 08:57:21 AM »
I'm so confused, this all sounds very convoluted, checks here, checks there, NWN is like a 20 year old game, why would anybody put any thought into a characters voice set? I understand SardineTheAncestor's point about it being nice if you change into a Slaad, and having a Slaad voiceset, but anything more than that is just silly. It sounds like some people could be putting way to much expectation on this disguise mechanic.

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2020, 09:39:56 AM »
No, no listen check will be added.

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WolfeJob

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Re: Disguise Voiceset
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2020, 12:25:37 AM »
This function is completely unnecessary. Voicesets can be changed in the OOC lounge with the @customize voiceset command.

This is not only an unhelpful comment (when making something more convenient, necessary is mostly irrelevant), but a tardy one. I've already indicated I'm going to add it (in fact, I've already done so).

Whoops! I really need to get better at reading through things before gabbing on. Thank you for the clarification!
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