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Author Topic: Items with spells/abilities. Why so many? Could it be toned down?  (Read 2471 times)

APorg

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Re: Items with spells/abilities. Why so many? Could it be toned down?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2020, 03:38:28 PM »
I think his point is mostly one around PvP.  You don't see a great deal of Enchantment/Illusion successfully used against PCs spells in PvE, and indeed, Lesser Mindblank or Mindblank is such that a single wizard can usually make an entire party immune to all mind-affecting spells.

In PvP, it's even worse, hence Wizard tactics tend to avoid them.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 04:04:17 PM by aprogressivist »
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Iridni Ren

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Re: Items with spells/abilities. Why so many? Could it be toned down?
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2020, 03:47:49 PM »
Enchantment/Illusion and playing a sorcerer or wizard are not things I feel qualified to talk about generally. But I think some areas on the server would be almost impossible to do without Fear immunity spells/items. (Hence, the value of the grand-fathered bracers that provide it all times. )

That the auras are frequently spammed is the justification for needing immunity rather than a boost to saving throws.

As far as the broader argument, I would be fine with, for example, swapping Clarity for Clarity of Mind. I don't perceive a current imbalance, but I've also not tried to play an illusionist-type caster.

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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Items with spells/abilities. Why so many? Could it be toned down?
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2020, 04:46:37 PM »
Unless you chose the school and tried to jump into PvP you probably wouldn't even notice, and even then I really doubt it. These spells are still very powerful in PvE and reap great value. I wouldn't say it's worse in PvP because most people aren't wandering around fully buffed at all times under a wizard's thumb. Our hypothetical wizard solo ganking another fully buffed wizard and his party should be happy he still has a few tricks up his sleeve that do not allow a save.

It doesn't really matter if you're a caster or not, "optimal" PvP will always revolve around catching people off guard because the game enables and incentivises players who want to win to do just that. Wizards don't really lack "I win" buttons to instantly disable or kill people, and most people are definitely not wandering around with mind immunity active. If someone pulls a dreamcatcher on your wizard, illusionist/enchanter or not, you still have so many other options.

e: I just want to be clear, the only reason I'm posting this is because it's relevant to the topic at hand: consumables don't make casters weak or upset the balance. Anyone who goes all in on one tactic should be ready to lose if they're engaging with people willing to counter them, especially considering there are tactics they can use to avoid being countered. So a mundane can get a minute or two of mind immunity by using a dreamcatcher when he sees a wizard trying to gank him. That gives him a few rounds to have a fighting chance at best. We can talk about all the counters mundanes can do to fight and kill wizards even in a counter-gank situation all day long but it's still a pretty tired discussion, and counter-engagement is good gameplay anyway. It's also rare because of the game design. (The fact he even saw the wizard first doesn't guarantee he'll think quickly enough to block whichever spell the wizard tries first, and again, not all can be blocked. If an item means a wizard has to press more than 1 button to win what might be pivotal PvP with months of consequences behind it, the balance is not upset.)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 05:02:41 PM by SardineTheAncestor »
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Marcus Weyland

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Re: Items with spells/abilities. Why so many? Could it be toned down?
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2020, 07:34:56 PM »
What I've observed--and your experience as a Wizard is clearly different--the main justification for Clarity is the number of Fear auras and Fear effects on this server, not to negate schools of magic and casting styles.

Regarding the spell itself, I did some quick searching and found a very similar spell that does exist outside of NWN and in 3.5: Clarity of Mind.

It is weaker in that it provides only a +4 save, rather than immunity. But it also lasts 1 hour / level.

It's interesting, I was going to say that Clarity being a moderate bonus to Will vs mind effects seems far more reasonable. I didn't know there was a spell that concurred.

tylernwn

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Re: Items with spells/abilities. Why so many? Could it be toned down?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2020, 11:41:31 PM »
I agree that player made potions and some item effects are overtuned. However I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 11:45:12 PM by tylernwn »