Falling Rocks in Dvergeheim

[vvolatile]

These things are overtuned. They're ridiculous.

1. Any two rockfalls might be within just a few seconds of each other. There should be a decent cooldown; personally, I play characters with discipline/parry/tumble, but I can't bring anyone with me, and the sounds and shaking are an overwhelming sensory experience that eats away at me and gives me headaches after enough of it happening so frequently. I shouldn't have to disable sound to be better able to tolerate the game, and there is no solution for the shaking effect. Games shouldn't make me tired!
2. Any given rockfall affects every player present -- as if the entire ceiling is collapsing. This, realistically, would mean that NO rocks could be dodged or deflected. Everyone should be dead at every single rockfall. This isn't the ideal way for things to be, so why not have the script pick a player from a list of those in the area at each rockfall trigger?

To reiterate the suggestions, in brief:
A. Put a 15-30 second cooldown on rockfalls.
B. Pick ONE of the players present to drop rocks on.
C. Reduce screen shake effect intensity?

[Zyemeth]

I agree. Without a pile of stoneskin wards it basically locks accessibility out for 90% of characters too at the appropriate level to even get xp for the buggers down there from just constant damage.

[Iridni Ren]

All I can say is...

It used to be so much worse

[Sovereign Citoyen]

[vvolatile]

All I can say is...

It used to be so much worse

This is not a logical defense for the current situation.

I just took three falling rocks checks inside of six seconds. I did fine -- companions did not. It's crap.

[ObsidianOrb]

What are the DC's against these rock falls? The real issue is, are the DC's too high, or is it just the way your companions built there characters?

[vvolatile]

What are the DC's against these rock falls? The real issue is, are the DC's too high, or is it just the way your companions built there characters?

It isn't build. It's class. Pure martials tend to be fine. Casters suffer hard. There is nobody here who needs to "OMG L2P GIT GUD" as a solution to this.

The DCs are, in my opinion, fine. It's frequency and hitting everyone at the same time that is the problem.

[Iridni Ren]

All I can say is...

It used to be so much worse

This is not a logical defense for the current situation.

I just took three falling rocks checks inside of six seconds. I did fine -- companions did not. It's crap.

How does one argue logically with wholly subjective terms like "ridiculous" and "decent interval"?

You say that your PC can handle it, but you can't bring anyone with you. Should all PCs be able to handle it?

Why?

There are alternative places to craft, and iron/steel are not the beginning metals to work with.

Dvergheim has been around for years, whereas you joined the server very recently and seem to have taken up crafting even more recently than that. Crafting is very frustrating in and of itself, which IMO contributes to why you are being so annoyed by things like a sound such that you are experiencing headaches and having to shut your speakers off.

It used to be much worse, and many, many players tolerated that literally for years. So my point is that your individual reaction and hyperbole seem a bit over the top. Haven't you also been ranting in Discord about players leaving things in crafting stations? About finding ways to dispose of all the practice gear you've created? Of the size of storage tickets? About how players shouldn't be able to say the gear they craft is better than some other?

In short, yes, crafting is all a *very* frustrating system. If you're going to let it bother you so much, I would suggest you take up something you find more enjoyable.

Dvergheim is actually something the Devs have made much more lenient than it used to be.

[ObsidianOrb]

It's not a competition Iridni Ren, of who has been here the longest. Granted I agree with you on some of the things you posted, but this is not really necessary to point out.

[Eien]

Perhaps the difficulty itself is quite open to debate, but I find the point around audio and visual fatigue quite relevant.

A game shouldn't feel that way if possible, we are all here to have fun after all, not to have a headache.

Balance and difficulty are a delicate matter, and I am not really the best person to talk about it.

[vvolatile]

incorrect or irrelevant things

The illogical argument was that, because something used to be worse, it must never be allowed to get any better.

Actually, I took up crafting immediately. I am not a beginner at any of the crafts anymore. I *can*, if I am careful, entirely solo the Dvergeheim iron run. But you're *not supposed to*.

I *like* crafting. I *don't* like the inconveniences added into it unnecessarily, and me saying that I think some parts of it should be improved shouldn't be treated as a "git gud or quit nab" bittervet mating call. You are also rather dismissively mischaracterizing my comments as ranting. Thanks a lot for that.

Additionally, trying to make this thread, which is about requesting the falling rocks in Dvergeheim *make sense* more, and *stop inhibiting party play*, into a thread where you accuse me of just whining about crafting, is just... cruel. Asinine. Fallacious.

[Phantasia]

Have you considered hiring someone to gather all the ore for you so your character's frail caster body doesn't have to deal with the indignity?

[DM Brimstone]

Please keep the discussion civil so we do not need to lock the thread. Thanks.

[vvolatile]

Have you considered hiring someone to gather all the ore for you so your character's frail caster body doesn't have to deal with the indignity?

I'm not the caster. I can stay down there forever without harm. Did you come here JUST to try to troll me, without reading the thread?

[Marcus Weyland]

Passions are far too high relative to the subject matter, and I expect if the attitude doesn't change it will be locked.

However, just because the presentation wasn't ideal doesn't mean there's no issue. I also agree that "other people tolerate it" can be a very stifling mindset, as it's entirely possible for people to tolerate things they don't actually have to.

The DCs, if I recall correctly, increase the deeper one travels underground, to the point where most casters of any level should expect to come out with some skinned knees. The current system does offer a lot of "outs": the initial discipline check, then a Parry, then a Tumble; this does broaden the demographic of people who can stay standing enough to function, but characters that have Tumble will also have Parry, and the ones with Parry tend also to have Discipline.

As an environmental hazard, it's pretty unique and I think it does add to the areas it affects. However, it is undeniably a factor that keeps pure casters away from the Alhoon and Shadow Dragon encounters.

[FinalHeaven]

It's fine as it is now.  It adds nice environmental atmosphere and can be managed with some fairly simple preparation.  Much like other comments here this next bit is anecdotal and subjective, but I've personally never had an issue locating Spellcasters that are interested in going to the Alhoon or Shadow Dragon. 

[Phantasia]

Have you considered hiring someone to gather all the ore for you so your character's frail caster body doesn't have to deal with the indignity?

I'm not the caster. I can stay down there forever without harm. Did you come here JUST to try to troll me, without reading the thread?

Has your friend tried this? Asking in earnest.

[zDark Shadowz]

There's ways to mitigate the damage. It's rocks falling, typically non-magical bludgeoning damage.

The timers can be pretty sporadic. Sometimes you do have large gaps of time, others, the tremors happen quickly. The randomness is one of the qualities of managing ones resources.

If you don't have bludgeoning resistance, or damage reduction from spells or items, or any of the skills that can avoid the damage to offset those (discipline, parry, tumble being essential skills even a caster considers cross-skilling), then, you are someone who has not prepared for the travel ahead and more preparations are needed. Ghostly Visage is a basic level 2 spell that can be extended into the level 3 slots, any lvl 5/6 arcanist can tolerate the harm to an extent even without needing to make those skill checks.

As for a suggestion to the problem, there is a story as to why the tremors happen, and I would not mind some small quest around the lore that could temporarily add duration between the tremors, even if it would never be a permanent fix, to make travelling in the more combat heavy aspects of below Dvergeheim more manageable.

I think falling rocks used to hit bleeding out folk last I was there, now that was interesting.

[Glass Cannon]

It used to be relatively easy and common to get 5 bludgeoning resistance items.  Now, the bracer that gives such is very rare, and the belt that gives such still comes in at around 10,000 gold from most sellers. Sure, you can use Ghostly Visage if you're a caster... still somewhat limiting.

[vvolatile]

I think falling rocks used to hit bleeding out folk last I was there, now that was interesting.

They still do. Getting KO'd in Dvergeheim is a guaranteed corpseing if somebody isn't on you right away with a heal pot or spell -- which is not realistic, mid-combat, as it opens one up to AOO, so the chances of getting corpsed are exceptionally, unfairly high. And even if you get stabilized, welp, you'd better beat your recovery check and get on your feet in time to GTFOD.

Also, mundane healing is nearly impossible down there, because every rockfall interrupts bandaging, it seems. Can't stabilize somebody with a bandage because it gets repeatedly interrupted, because there's no cooldown between rockfalls.

It used to be relatively easy and common to get 5 bludgeoning resistance items.  Now, the bracer that gives such is very rare, and the belt that gives such still comes in at around 10,000 gold from most sellers. Sure, you can use Ghostly Visage if you're a caster... still somewhat limiting.

I've been asking around for DR items and have had very little luck. Ghostly might help -- I don't know. Stoneskin does, but rockfalls are enough to deplete Stoneskin before you even fight any enemies. I don't like the idea of combat survival spells being depleted by environmental hazards that are triggered unavoidably just by being in the place itself.



Anyway: I am truly not requesting much here. It would be very reasonable -- and realistic -- if the rockfalls only "targeted" one player (or a random number between 1 and x, where x is the number of players present, even) at a time, and had a cooldown of 15 seconds.

Or, even, what if clerics had a +discipline spell?

[Derek Jeter]

 Whew, the attitude from some of the vets in here. I understand both sides of the argument but half of you didnt even read the OP.

[Marcus Weyland]

Anyway: I am truly not requesting much here. It would be very reasonable -- and realistic -- if the rockfalls only "targeted" one player (or a random number between 1 and x, where x is the number of players present, even) at a time, and had a cooldown of 15 seconds.

Or, even, what if clerics had a +discipline spell?

I believe the rockfalls are only meant to be a side-effect of the tremors. It would make sense that if the entire cavern is shaking, rocks could fall. Maybe relegate the rocks to a "chance" rather than a guarantee, but the effect of everyone in the party being potentially knocked off their feet is working as intended.

The implementation of a spell is not to be taken lightly, particularly when the inexistence of similar spells might be part of a class's balancing.
That said, wiz/sorcs do have Heroism, which provides a small discipline bonus.

[HopeIsTheCarrot]

In my experience, the rockfalls are appropriate for the level range of the dungeon/crafting materials present. If you are going down into the Mines for any of the dungeons down there, it makes sense that you should have at least one of the following:
a) Someone who can cast stoneskin/ghostly visage
b) Enough points invested in the necessary skills to manage
c) The items needed to reduce bludgeoning damage

If your only intention for diving below is mining ore, then I would make the same arguments. There are other places to mine, also far more dangerous places to mine. I find the balance of Dvergeheim appropriate when considering the encompassed crafting materials & dungeons.

[vvolatile]

c) The items needed to reduce bludgeoning damage

Which apparently are exceedingly rare this decade, and not acquired in content appropriate to the level range of Dvergeheim anyway.

[HopeIsTheCarrot]

c) The items needed to reduce bludgeoning damage

Which apparently are exceedingly rare this decade, and not acquired in content appropriate to the level range of Dvergeheim anyway.

Rare, but not exceedingly so. One of them actually spawns at a location very appropriate as a pre-Dvergeheim dungeon (but I won't spoil anything for anyone there). The other spawns at dungeons pretty on par with the difficulty of Dvergeheim. So, both could be reasonably acquired by characters seeking to do the Dvergeheim dungeons. Also, 10,000 fang is not that hard to earn for characters in the level range of Dvergeheim dungeons. There are also a couple less effective and far more common items to help with the bludgeoning DR.