Reconsidering an application system for PrCs.

[PlatointheCave]

The original post doesn't read to me like a serious proposal so much as a vehicle to indirectly criticise the general standard of roleplay on the server. So I'll focus on that complaint specifically here:

In a big server you're gonna have a wide range of writers, knowledge levels and styles of play. Is it ideal that everyone knows everything? I guess. But it isn't realistic nor do people learn if not given the chance to explore and practice. If you observe cheesing or a breach of the rules, do report it. Otherwise, exercising patience and offering help and guidance freely when asked is a very effective way to better the community as a whole.

As for PrC apps? I want them to remain so the RVT shadow cabal can continue to run the server.

[PrimetheGrime]

I've found no issue with the way Prc Applications are handled to be frank. It's always been rather seamless for me at the very least.

[UilliamNebel]

The original post doesn't read to me like a serious proposal so much as a vehicle to indirectly criticise the general standard of roleplay on the server. So I'll focus on that complaint

I've accepted that certain topics, when giving honest feedback, will always lead to public questioning of motive here. I'm sorry you feel so cynical on me, best of luck.

[PrimetheGrime]

The original post doesn't read to me like a serious proposal so much as a vehicle to indirectly criticise the general standard of roleplay on the server. So I'll focus on that complaint

I've accepted that certain topics, when giving honest feedback, will always lead to public questioning of motive here. I'm sorry you feel so cynical on me, best of luck.

Certain topics, you mean this one?

I think the server is at a point where the process of applying for PrCs should be reconsidered, and eliminated.
I understand at a time it was believed to be a vital component of keeping up roleplay standards. However, with all the compromises I am seeing to immersion in the server as population has grown. And the allowances made for lack of setting knowledge. I feel that this process no longer adds a reasonable benefit to the server population and more so limits player self management and responsibility from developing.

It's hard not to question motive when your main reasoning for why the PrC application system should change is that the population has increased and that certain measures (to allow newer players to the setting of ravenloft) were added to make the playing experience better. The process has the same reasoning behind it now that it did 15 years ago. It evaluates the individuals ability to understand the PrC they are trying for. If they understand it, then they will get it. If they don't, they wont but will not be told not to apply again, instead the CC will suggest you study resources and better understand the PrC in question so that when you do make another application you will be wiser and your application will be that much stronger. Population has no horse in this race so to speak. The application process works well and overall makes those that try for a PrC better equipped to play what they apply for.

It also detracts from ability to develop smaller, more mutual play style, factions from forming solely among players.

I disagree, there is nothing stopping smaller mutual play styles except for the subjects willpower to write an application, which you can get assistance with by our friendly (and handsome) CC team. Player factions have multitudes of PrCs, some factions are built on it even.

If we should be learning to play with those here, and by and large they are playing drastically different from previous times with more of an MMO and theme park perspective, and less a pen and paper one, I do not see much need to have a system in place as a quality measure of this type with regard to roleplay and a PrC.

If anything, opening the floodgates to allow PrC's without applications would create more MMO and theme park perspectives because the important guidelines to the classes would inevitably be ignored. In conclusion, I see no reason why the system you suggest to remove needs to be removed in the first place. If anything, you've made valid points as to why it should stay and I agree with those points. Thank you.
 

[UilliamNebel]

It's hard not to question motive when..

No, its actually entirely too easy to question motive on subjects where we disagree with others over a non direct communication medium like this.

That said, I believe from what I am seeing on the server that if the CCs primary goal, with regard for when it does assess players which a PrC application is, it is far too late a point to be of the greatest value for everyone involved. I am not advocating anarchy, and did say a new envision of a system would need to take the current's place. I believe there are better opportunities to be had earlier to help convey server standards and culture, that is both more inclusive to the varied play styles and thoughts on roleplay which will come as server population increases.

[Revenant]

It's hard not to question motive when..

No, its actually entirely too easy to question motive on subjects where we disagree with others over a non direct communication medium like this.

That said, I believe from what I am seeing on the server that if the CCs primary goal, with regard for when it does assess players which a PrC application is, it is far too late a point to be of the greatest value for everyone involved. I am not advocating anarchy, and did say a new envision of a system would need to take the current's place. I believe there are better opportunities to be had earlier to help convey server standards and culture, that is both more inclusive to the varied play styles and thoughts on roleplay which will come as server population increases.

What do you mean by "the CCs primary goal, with regard for when it does assess players which a PrC application is, it is far too late a point to be of the greatest value for everyone involved"?

Are you saying that the help the CC provides to applications they don't pass is too-little too-late, and that it should've been given before the application was sent in? In my experience the CC and DMs are usually willing to discuss concepts and the roleplay required even before sending in your first application.

[UilliamNebel]

It's hard not to question motive when..

No, its actually entirely too easy to question motive on subjects where we disagree with others over a non direct communication medium like this.

That said, I believe from what I am seeing on the server that if the CCs primary goal, with regard for when it does assess players which a PrC application is, it is far too late a point to be of the greatest value for everyone involved. I am not advocating anarchy, and did say a new envision of a system would need to take the current's place. I believe there are better opportunities to be had earlier to help convey server standards and culture, that is both more inclusive to the varied play styles and thoughts on roleplay which will come as server population increases.

What do you mean by "the CCs primary goal, with regard for when it does assess players which a PrC application is, it is far too late a point to be of the greatest value for everyone involved"?

Are you saying that the help the CC provides to applications they don't pass is too-little too-late, and that it should've been given before the application was sent in? In my experience the CC and DMs are usually willing to discuss concepts and the roleplay required even before sending in your first application.

No, I mean a better goal would be for CC members to focus more on engaging the community in ways that would guide players toward being grounded in the culture and standards of the community to where PrCs moved from being an application process, to an informal review.

[Hypatia]

Well... I love the app process; granted I've never tried for a PrC and probably never will, but some things are meant to be rare, and it can be immersion breaking to not be able to throw a rock without hitting the same old OP PrC builds that should be hard to find. Those apps keep things from getting ridiculous.

Ive played on more "open" servers, and ill tell you there are few things more soul wrenching than watching flocks of  half drow/fiend/(enter super rare anomaly race here) duel scythe-wielding weapon masters running past, yelling "Sup" as they blow past me to the next raid. Or worse, the powerful wizard with the tiny dip into shadow dancer for hips *shudder*.  The app process keeps those powerful classes to the players who have shown they have the respect for RP to use them responsibly.

I've found the new players are great RPers, and have really enjoyed interacting with a lot of them. Its true there are millions of people standing around outside, but this comes and goes. When I first joined, there was a real sense of fear for going outside at night, and since then, I've seen it ebb and flow. If you are upset by it... make a AMPC and spread some horror.

[MAB77]

This thread has outlived its usefulness and I am locking it.

UilliamNebel, you have been explained many times in this thread the reasons of the application process. It has served us well over the 15 years. It is a strong motor to generate quality roleplay. It is an efficient way to award prestige classes. It works as intended and we absolutely have no desire to change this process.

Should you feel the need to discuss this further, I'll be happy to do so in private with you.