You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Craftable firearms  (Read 1612 times)

LivingWasteland

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • LOOT B4 LUV - TIEFLING LYFE
Craftable firearms
« on: March 09, 2020, 09:51:34 PM »
Any chance we could get muskets and flintlocks added to the crafting system? Pretty sure we can't add them to 'weapon focus' and 'weapon specialization' due to hard coding, but it would be nice to get some crafted pistols that could be enchanted.

FinalHeaven

  • Ba'al Verzi
  • The Underworld
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1812
  • dat boi
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2020, 10:06:49 PM »
You can indeed take Weapon Focus Flintlock or Musket currently.  They're needed for this feat.
https://nwnravenloft.fandom.com/wiki/Delven%27s_Maneuver



herkles

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 7355
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2020, 10:12:34 PM »
Any chance we could get muskets and flintlocks added to the crafting system? Pretty sure we can't add them to 'weapon focus' and 'weapon specialization' due to hard coding, but it would be nice to get some crafted pistols that could be enchanted.
You can indeed use both of those feats. :)


LivingWasteland

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • LOOT B4 LUV - TIEFLING LYFE
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2020, 10:21:57 PM »
I stand corrected! But I'd still like craftable firearms. If a PC can devote a whole set of feats to a weapon, there should be enchantable versions.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22495
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020, 10:32:08 PM »
Most likely won't happen.

LivingWasteland

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • LOOT B4 LUV - TIEFLING LYFE
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2020, 10:37:30 PM »
That's extremely disappointing. Efforts were made so CEP weapons could be focused and crafted. This leaves firearms as the sole weapon left out.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22495
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2020, 10:40:43 PM »
That's extremely disappointing. Efforts were made so CEP weapons could be focused and crafted. This leaves firearms as the sole weapon left out.

Firearms, slings and a couple of others, but otherwise yes, your assessment is correct. You don't have to use firearms or "invest" feats in them if you're not happy.

Devil's Moon

  • Society of the Erudite
  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Master of Stars
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2020, 11:08:30 PM »
What about craftable bullets? I know firerams and ammunition are a bit flimsy when it comes to knowing which item properties apply to them and which don't, but maybe the option to make special bullets could be interesting.

LivingWasteland

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • LOOT B4 LUV - TIEFLING LYFE
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2020, 11:15:30 PM »
It's not at all that I'm unhappy with firearms. I love them. I was just thinking on ways to make them more unique for players that go full gunslinger. The awe that comes with getting your first adamantium enchanted weapon is a glorious thing. Having something similar for all weapon types would be just as rewarding.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22495
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2020, 11:16:42 PM »
It's not at all that I'm unhappy with firearms. I love them. I was just thinking on ways to make them more unique for players that go full gunslinger. The awe that comes with getting your first adamantium enchanted weapon is a glorious thing. Having something similar for all weapon types would be just as rewarding.

Indeed, and require a full new branch of crafting, requiring a few hundred hours of work I presume. Not worth it.

SardineTheAncestor

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2020, 02:11:05 AM »
The simplest setup I can imagine would be woodworkers making "musket stock" items and smiths making the "musket lock" and "musket barrel" items.

I guess these items could be made from different materials for different types of bonuses. Silver-barreled guns for killing lycanthropes, platinum for undead, adamantine for... showing off.

No ideas about the different types of wood or if they should even have any effect. Weight reduction for one type vs. a melee damage bonus for another? Or maybe the bayonets should cover the damage bonus...

Leatherworkers could get things like holsters, slings, and scabbards, which grant bonuses of their own. Philos had some great ideas in the item request thread which could be applied to this, if they are not used for loot after all. I think they could be part of the full package of a firearm, or maybe they could just be belts.

I don't believe there has to be a "gunsmith" section of crafting, if that does save any time for you, at least. It could be that a little something is added to each craft. As for who assembles the finished product out of these four pieces (lock, stock, barrel, and holster), I don't know. It should probably be a smith, but it could be a woodworker too.

I know they can be enhanced with GMW already, but this might make them more widespread in the "high levels with too much money and nothing better to do hunting down MPCs" war, considering if they hit, it can be devastating. They are going to be easy to get no matter how expensive the templates turn out to be, it will just take more time for them to get into peoples' hands. Something that is likely already considered when expanding gun choices, or anything at the top level really, and probably doesn't need to be mentioned though.
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

LivingWasteland

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • LOOT B4 LUV - TIEFLING LYFE
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2020, 02:58:34 AM »
The simplest setup I can imagine would be woodworkers making "musket stock" items and smiths making the "musket lock" and "musket barrel" items.

I guess these items could be made from different materials for different types of bonuses. Silver-barreled guns for killing lycanthropes, platinum for undead, adamantine for... showing off.

No ideas about the different types of wood or if they should even have any effect. Weight reduction for one type vs. a melee damage bonus for another? Or maybe the bayonets should cover the damage bonus...

Leatherworkers could get things like holsters, slings, and scabbards, which grant bonuses of their own. Philos had some great ideas in the item request thread which could be applied to this, if they are not used for loot after all. I think they could be part of the full package of a firearm, or maybe they could just be belts.

I don't believe there has to be a "gunsmith" section of crafting, if that does save any time for you, at least. It could be that a little something is added to each craft. As for who assembles the finished product out of these four pieces (lock, stock, barrel, and holster), I don't know. It should probably be a smith, but it could be a woodworker too.

I know they can be enhanced with GMW already, but this might make them more widespread in the "high levels with too much money and nothing better to do hunting down MPCs" war, considering if they hit, it can be devastating. They are going to be easy to get no matter how expensive the templates turn out to be, it will just take more time for them to get into peoples' hands. Something that is likely already considered when expanding gun choices, or anything at the top level really, and probably doesn't need to be mentioned though.

This is what I had in mind, yeah. Not a whole new branch of crafting.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22495
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2020, 06:29:04 AM »
The simplest setup I can imagine would be woodworkers making "musket stock" items and smiths making the "musket lock" and "musket barrel" items.

I guess these items could be made from different materials for different types of bonuses. Silver-barreled guns for killing lycanthropes, platinum for undead, adamantine for... showing off.

No ideas about the different types of wood or if they should even have any effect. Weight reduction for one type vs. a melee damage bonus for another? Or maybe the bayonets should cover the damage bonus...

Leatherworkers could get things like holsters, slings, and scabbards, which grant bonuses of their own. Philos had some great ideas in the item request thread which could be applied to this, if they are not used for loot after all. I think they could be part of the full package of a firearm, or maybe they could just be belts.

I don't believe there has to be a "gunsmith" section of crafting, if that does save any time for you, at least. It could be that a little something is added to each craft. As for who assembles the finished product out of these four pieces (lock, stock, barrel, and holster), I don't know. It should probably be a smith, but it could be a woodworker too.

I know they can be enhanced with GMW already, but this might make them more widespread in the "high levels with too much money and nothing better to do hunting down MPCs" war, considering if they hit, it can be devastating. They are going to be easy to get no matter how expensive the templates turn out to be, it will just take more time for them to get into peoples' hands. Something that is likely already considered when expanding gun choices, or anything at the top level really, and probably doesn't need to be mentioned though.

That’s essentially another craft using existing stations. Probably even worse to implement than using one craft only. As I said it’s very unlikely to happen. Now if someone cares so much about it that they want to work on it, they  are more than welcome to apply for the development team.

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6477
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2020, 06:48:27 AM »
I am well placed to assure you that what you think as not "a whole lot of new crafting" is an endeavor of countless hours and thousands of lines of codes. It's nowhere as simple as you think. Could it be done? Yes. Should it be done? No. Firearms have the potential to deal huge amount of damages unlike that of regular weapons and they absolutely do not need to be given a boost balance wise. They are in a right place as is. The one thing I'd adjust is to have special bullets that bypass creature's DR, but that can't be done at the moment else we'd have those silver bullets already.
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Castle Road, Castle Ravenloft, Village of Barovia.

SardineTheAncestor

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2020, 06:57:43 AM »
That’s essentially another craft using existing stations. Probably even worse to implement than using one craft only. As I said it’s very unlikely to happen. Now if someone cares so much about it that they want to work on it, they  are more than welcome to apply for the development team.

I am just trying to understand how adding more things to existing stations makes it more complicated than implementing all of that along with new stations, with new interiors and NPCs and everything like that to support them. To me it would seem like the simpler option, just putting these templates on, say, the Port-au-Lucine crafting merchants.

I am well placed to assure you that what you think as not "a whole lot of new crafting" is an endeavor of countless hours and thousands of lines of codes. It's nowhere as simple as you think. Could it be done? Yes. Should it be done? No. Firearms have the potential to deal huge amount of damages unlike that of regular weapons and they absolutely do not need to be given a boost balance wise. They are in a right place as is. The one thing I'd adjust is to have special bullets that bypass creature's DR, but that can't be done at the moment else we'd have those silver bullets already.

I am not saying "this is not a whole lot of new work, it's easy and simple," and I never stated any of that, and neither has anyone in this thread. None of us believe that for a moment programming is easy. My post is a simple kickstart to ask people if that's what they'd like to see and I leave it to you to decide if that's more or less work, but never did I make any kind of assumption that it's not a lot of work. I suggested it because I was under the impression that this would be less work than the alternative of making a "gunsmith" crafting career, not that it was no work.

I am also not asking for firearms to be buffed. I am one of their detractors. I am against them in their current form. I think such outrageous burst damage detracts from the game experience overall, and I think their animations and sound effects are poor. Making them different, not better, is a part of what I want for them, but I kept my personal wants out of this thread to try and support the idea proposed here, because if the crafted guns are different but not better, the balance is not necessarily upset. That's why I want to discuss it.

EDIT: Added quotes & a final statement for clarity: while the development team may not be interested in adding this, the purpose of the discussion was to find the easiest way to implement it, and see if these ideas are popular, not detract from the difficult, complicated work it is that you do to bring us new content on the server. In no way am I trying to say that it's easy, and if you comb my posts carefully with a critically skeptic eye, you'll never find me spreading such slander.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 07:03:17 AM by SardineTheAncestor »
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6477
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2020, 07:18:14 AM »
I was replying to LivingWasteland.  ;)

Anyhow. This thread has served its purpose I think. At this time it is premature to discuss changing the firearm system as we're still limited in what can be done with it. We are satisfied as to how it operates at the moment, but trust  that we will revise it should those limitations ever be removed.
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Castle Road, Castle Ravenloft, Village of Barovia.

SardineTheAncestor

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2020, 07:23:39 AM »
In case this gets locked before they log in to reply, in defence of LW and anyone else who posted here simply inquiring about it (and my post was to confirm interest & provide a skeleton of a system that if people liked, they could meat it up), I did say this because it was true, in reference to it being easy/simple/not a lot of work:
neither has anyone in this thread [stated that].
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 07:30:28 AM by SardineTheAncestor »
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

MAB77

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 6477
Re: Craftable firearms
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2020, 07:38:04 AM »
Heh you guys read way too much into what I was saying, but I do apologize if I misinterpreted what you were saying and if it gave you guys a wrong impression. I'll lock this thread now before we run into more misunderstandings.
Best Regards!
MAB

Dev. Relationist for the Dark Powers.
1 Castle Road, Castle Ravenloft, Village of Barovia.