Author Topic: Buffs for animal companions and familiars  (Read 1099 times)

Autokilla

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Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« on: February 10, 2020, 08:18:59 AM »
was just thinking it would be nice for animal companions to have some type of buff here... i mean, if they need to be revived the same as a player i think they deserve a little buff to make em at least worth using... cause right now they seem to be more harm then good as they'll die in nearly any fight past the kobolds. even a few fire beetle hunters and defenders nearly killed my lvl 6 dire wolf. and they also cant even hurt enemies like lycans or most undead. i think it would be nice if they could get even a minor buff to either dmg, or even just to help em stay alive. or both. like, could give regen, or dr, or enhancement bonuses, or any of the above every certain amount of lvls in that class...
just to make them actually helpful in a fight instead of a liability

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 10:57:01 AM »
Their AI is bad, so you can't make them good without making them overpowered. They only last a short while in combat, though, and are generally best used for flavour in RP.

My suggestion to you: Give your summons, companions, familiars, etc. buffs, and they will be buff. Yes, they can hurt lycans and undead, but only if you spend spell slots for immunity meta. I was always able to spare the spellslots for my panther companion, even though my character is a multiclass caster. I'd be happy to give private advice on this (what spells to use etc.) and my character would gladly impart her knowledge to yours as she is a beastfriend. Otherwise, they block people in dangerous places, they trigger AoOs and die, giving enemies free full AB attacks on their primary target through Cleave, and they cost a lot to resurrect. They are just animals with a connection to their master, there's nothing special about them unless you magic them up.
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Autokilla

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 11:25:02 AM »
Well, as a ranger i literally have no spells to buff em at all. and my animal companion gets its ass kicked by the most basic of enemies when dire wolves should be a very powerful animal. at least compared to the fire beetles and other enemies of the same caliber

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 11:36:21 AM »
Yeah, all they stand to do is get you or your party members killed.

If you can't buff it, try making or buying some potions to do so, or get a Druid friend who can apply Greater Magic Fang and Claws of the Savage for combat.
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

mappinger

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2020, 12:29:42 PM »
New player here and I am enjoying the server and player base a lot so far.

In looking at the forums and forward to acquiring an animal companion, it sounds like every post comes to the conclusion that animal companions are not useful in a meaningful class utility way (while the RP angle is something, an every-level-up class feature that is little more than RP would be a bit of a downer). And is there still currently a hefty gold price to raise them, should they die?

In single player NWN, animal companions commonly faced being underwhelming, but were reasonably useful in some fights or with certain precautions taken. They were extremely squishy targets vs. moderate/tough foes that would effortlessly cut through their Armor Class, Saves and HPs, but they were pretty good against lowbie enemies. Animal companions tend to block paths, which strikes me as more of a liability in a more party based server. And, of course, their AI is iffy at best and leads to unforced errors.

With PotM's noticeably stronger average enemy, it sounds like all of animal companions' weaknesses are greatly magnified. Heavy buffing - assuming you are a druid instead of a ranger with scant spells, or with another player who is willing to spend their buff spells on a marginal support animal - still might not get them near an effective status (especially that pathetic armor class number).

Does this sound about on target?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 06:13:35 PM by mappinger »

Kaninchen

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2020, 01:13:19 PM »
From what I have read with discussions on the discord server, and a few forums posts, I'd say your conclusion is right on the money.

The emphasis is to RP, and adventure with other PCs, so summons, pets, and familiars are designed to be underwhelming for combat purposes.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2020, 01:21:31 PM »
Well, some summons are better than others, and will come stock with a higher AB than you might achieve when fully buffed unless you use the best forms. Not all forms and summons were created equal. The only semblance of balance was to try and prevent soloing through the usage of summons.
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

zDark Shadowz

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2020, 04:01:50 PM »
In terms of animal companions--

Not all animal companions are good for fighting.

Panther, Bear and Dire Wolf are the fighting ones due to their levelling progression directly toward combat stats.

Attack power is (primarily) buffed up by druids
Defensive power is (primarily) buffed up by wizards.

When you have them running properly they are pretty strong, they take a fair bit of micromanagement but the AC they gain after barkskin, shield and greater mage armour puts them on par with equipped folk, the only difference becomes animals dex AC vs someones base armour + tumble AC.

Pre end game content they will get enough AB/AC, after end game content they likely need a bard song as well but, well my druids' bear was buffed up to 46 AB/41 AC (without bard song) with help from a cleric and a wizard at level 17 and still has 4 more AB to gain over the next 3 levels.

They are in an excellent place, when properly warded, if the companion is good for fighting, excellent flank support.

tylernwn

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2020, 11:51:03 PM »
A separate feat similar to augment summoning, but only for familiars/animal companions, would probably be well recieved by most people that use them.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2020, 12:09:04 AM »
The one that has synergy with Barbarian Rage could be useful if people were more open to playing multiclassed characters. Any direct buffs to summons, even survivability bonuses, would probably make them overpowered sooner than it would make them balanced. You can make them useful with minimal investment, and certain ones can end up more powerful than the average character if you spell them up like one. The only obstacle, then, is combat duration, both when soloing and when you are with a party. A feat to adjust that could be potentially a lot less disruptive than making companions and familiars stronger upfront.
Insatisfait permanent, c'est ça l'apanage du champion.

tylernwn

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Re: Buffs for animal companions and familiars
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2020, 08:29:50 AM »
The one that has synergy with Barbarian Rage could be useful if people were more open to playing multiclassed characters. Any direct buffs to summons, even survivability bonuses, would probably make them overpowered sooner than it would make them balanced. You can make them useful with minimal investment, and certain ones can end up more powerful than the average character if you spell them up like one. The only obstacle, then, is combat duration, both when soloing and when you are with a party. A feat to adjust that could be potentially a lot less disruptive than making companions and familiars stronger upfront.

Yeah the problem is not creating a buff for familiars/animal companions, its that the 2-3 apex familiars/animal companions will take that buff and be too strong.

In my opinion a feat that gives a buff to a creatures secondary stat would be best. For example a Bear would receive a buff to CON (or DEX) instead of STR, an imp would recieve a buff to STR instead of DEX, and so on. This way the creatures are more rounded out, rather than having their best stat be even better.

But without some agreement on what the buff should be, I doubt we will be seeing one.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 08:38:20 AM by tylernwn »