Increasing usefulness of polearms

[Telkar]

I've noticed how polearms like halberds could use a bit more love. Here is the difference between halberds and other two-handers: I take a greataxe as an example.

Halberds:
Full parry AC without the Improved Parry feat'
Piercing and slashing type damage

Greataxes:
Steel ones have +2 more average dmg than steel halberds
Enchanted steel ones have +3 more average dmg than enchanted steel halberds

The thing here is that almost any dedicated parrier with such two-handers is going to take Improved Parry, even if they're using a halberd. So the Full parry AC of halberds becomes rather inconsequential. Also the piercing type damage is not 'that' useful I find. I think it's fine that the damage difference remains, but I think halberds/polearms could use some other advantages.

The player's handbook talks about their usefulness in tripping opponents and also the reach thing and dealing double damage against charging opponents. So maybe that's something to work with. Maybe something more defense oriented could be added since they're able to stand further away from their opponents. I don't have anything concrete in mind at the moment, but want to open the topic anyway for discussion.

[Iridni Ren]

I've noticed how polearms like halberds could use a bit more love. Here is the difference between halberds and other two-handers: I take a greataxe as an example.

Halberds:
Full parry AC without the Improved Parry feat'
Piercing and slashing type damage

Greataxes:
Steel ones have +2 more average dmg than steel halberds
Enchanted steel ones have +3 more average dmg than enchanted steel halberds

The thing here is that almost any dedicated parrier with such two-handers is going to take Improved Parry, even if they're using a halberd. So the Full parry AC of halberds becomes rather inconsequential. Also the piercing type damage is not 'that' useful I find. I think it's fine that the damage difference remains, but I think halberds/polearms could use some other advantages.

The player's handbook talks about their usefulness in tripping opponents and also the reach thing and dealing double damage against charging opponents. So maybe that's something to work with. Maybe something more defense oriented could be added since they're able to stand further away from their opponents. I don't have anything concrete in mind at the moment, but want to open the topic anyway for discussion.

Your argument rests on negating the main advantage of a halberd versus the great ax: it saves a feat and thus can also be achieved without sinking 13 points into Intelligence. When those are rightly factored in, halberds have an exclusive niche.

Something I would also be curious about and is relevant to your argument is whether halberds and great axes require the same amount of XP to enchant. Hopefully, the damage superiority means the great ax does cost more, further weakening the need to improve halberds. If not, that would be something I could see adjusting (either making the cost of enchanting halberds lower or the cost of enchanting great axes higher).

[Telkar]

Your argument rests on negating the main advantage of a halberd versus the great ax: it saves a feat and thus can also be achieved without sinking 13 points into Intelligence. When those are rightly factored in, halberds have an exclusive niche.

Didn't realize it required 13+ int. So essentially what that's telling me is that halberds are good for less intelligent people who are not built to be parriers. People who are built to be parriers and have 13+ int ... it just doesn't make sense for them to use a halberd.

[Revenant]

Your argument rests on negating the main advantage of a halberd versus the great ax: it saves a feat and thus can also be achieved without sinking 13 points into Intelligence. When those are rightly factored in, halberds have an exclusive niche.

Didn't realize it required 13+ int. So essentially what that's telling me is that halberds are good for less intelligent people who are not built to be parriers. People who are built to be parriers and have 13+ int ... it just doesn't make sense for them to use a halberd.

This makes it, amusingly, an excellent Barbarian weapon. Or for anyone who might be tight on feats, and not want to sink one into Improved Parry.

[Telkar]

If that was a design decision, then I guess I'm critizing that.

[Legion XXI]

The Halberd is an excellent weapon that doesn't do the raw damage of the Greatsword or Greataxe but makes up for it by having 2 damage types instead of 1 (allowing it to sidestep DR in some cases).  That, coupled with not requiring improved parry, seems like a fair trade off to me.  It's not underpowered in any context, and if we're talking about buffing specific weapons this one would be near the bottom of my list.  There's tons of weapons that go 100% ignored as things currently stand because they're just direct downgrades from other weapons of their similar size and type.

[Telkar]

Yea, it's excellent if you don't have 13+ Int and you aren't focused at being a good parrier (in which case Imp Parry is the first feat to take even if you use a halberd). In this case, the only thing the halberd has going for it is that it has a slashing-piercing damage type, which I don't think is that useful.

So, I guess I just picked the wrong weapon all along, if it was indeed intended to be like that. 

[Philos]

As some have already mentioned, using a halberd saves you a feat. While this might not seem incredibly impactful, taken in the context of nwn as a whole rather than just potm it has greater weight. We get so many extra feats here I think sometimes people don't realize how valuable they really are

While I think it would be cool to replicate the "reach" aspect of halbreds (whips too) there's not really a good way to do it authenticly atm. From what I understand there are more pressing developer priorities too. What they could really use is more available options for loot drops. I've only ever seen really one or two usable models. I'll break out the toolset and come up with some ideas.
.

[Relapse]

The Halberd is an excellent weapon that doesn't do the raw damage of the Greatsword or Greataxe but makes up for it by having 2 damage types instead of 1 (allowing it to sidestep DR in some cases).

This is the key point and it is massive.

In this case, the only thing the halberd has going for it is that it has a slashing-piercing damage type, which I don't think is that useful.

If you don't value it then yeah you picked the wrong weapon.

[Hypatia]

Everyone has a belt to negate slashing/piercing/bludgeoning when you get higher levels. In a fight against anything wearing these, the halberd does +5 bonus damage over greatswords and greataxes, making its total average damage higher.

[Telkar]

There are also other items than belts for such damage reduction. So yea, if someone has a slashing reducing item on and forgets a piercing reducing item, the halberd is more useful against that person than a greataxe. Effectively, an enchanted halberd will do +2 more damage against such a person as compared to an enchanted greataxe, because the greataxe already has a +3 more damage. In all other cases, the enchanted greataxe has a +3 damage advantage.

[zDark Shadowz]

I can tell you that halberds are one of the third longest reaching weapons, behind greatswords at second and dire mace at first.

The base items have reach 2da values that you don't see.

My first character here was a rogue/fighter/barb with a halberd and took improved parry, the +4 parry is still +4 parry, saved me using item slots to get the skill to 27-7 parry after a halfplate.

Maybe choosing a greatsword would've been better (+0.1 more range value) but, the dual-typing has been pretty nice to me and I only need a hammer stored away on the offchance I fight something thats immune to both slashing and piercing.

By all means if halberds could be powered up more I'm not in opposition to it! Though what I'm missing out on using a halberd isn't damage, but AC.

I should've gone sword and shield, but went with RP to determine what weapon my character would favour within his first five levels.

[Telkar]

By all means if halberds could be powered up more I'm not in opposition to it! Though what I'm missing out on using a halberd isn't damage, but AC.

I personally would think it fair if halberds with improved parry got some kind of further AC/parry benefit, since the feat is so much more useful to people using other kinds of weapons. That would address the issue of halberds not making sense for 13+ intelligence, parry focused characters.

It wouldn't have to be much. Maybe something like raising the parry AC cap by 5, so it'd be possible for halberdiers to get +1 more parry AC if they manage to get their parry that high.

Also, when I'm talking about halberds, I'm talking about all polearms.

[Mayvind]

I have played both Great-Axe user and Halberd user, i can tell you My Hally give me the feeling of old UO PKing feel (u guys born yet?)! now that a plus in my book ! Serious aside ! Halberd can deliver solid hit and critical hit with 2 type of damages which is very good.

[Iridni Ren]

Improved parry is already one of the best no-brainer feats on the server. Whereas Skill Focus gives +3 to a skill, IP gives +4. And unlocks two handers at full parry bonus.

Neither the weapon nor the feat is hurting.

[Telkar]

Ok! We disagree then. We leave it up to a dev that comes along then to whom it makes sense and bothers doing anything about it. 

But really, any kind of love for halberdiers would be appreciated. Like that one-time double damage against charging opponents. That'd be super cool. Imagine a crit with that, ouch!

[Jeebs]

But really, any kind of love for halberdiers would be appreciated. Like that one-time double damage against charging opponents. That'd be super cool. Imagine a crit with that, ouch!

While I agree that it would be cool and thematically appropriate, that would probably be pretty hard to set up in NWN. How do you define what a charging opponent is in terms of the game?

[Telkar]

I was thinking something like this:

It'd be implemented as a free feat for everyone. If you're using a polearm weapon while using it, the double damage is dealt on the first attack against the charging opponent, otherwise it's just normal damage.

First, the feat could be toggled on and off. If you move out of your spot while it's toggled, it toggles off. If you press the button to attack someone in melee, you are not moved out of your spot, but stay there in combat stance, much like the dwarven defender's defensive stance.

Then an attacker can move into your range. After your first attack, the feat is toggled off. You can't toggle it on again while an enemy is up close.

What determines the double damage with the halberd would be whether the one you attack was running as he entered your range. If he wasn't running, you'd just deal normal damage.

[EO]

I was thinking something like this:

It'd be implemented as a free feat for everyone. If you're using a polearm weapon while using it, the double damage is dealt on the first attack against the charging opponent, otherwise it's just normal damage.

First, the feat could be toggled on and off. If you move out of your spot while it's toggled, it toggles off. If you press the button to attack someone in melee, you are not moved out of your spot, but stay there in combat stance, much like the dwarven defender's defensive stance.

Then an attacker can move into your range. After your first attack, the feat is toggled off. You can't toggle it on again while an enemy is up close.

What determines the double damage with the halberd would be whether the one you attack was running as he entered your range. If he wasn't running, you'd just deal normal damage.

This isn't feasible.

Also, as others have pointed out halberds aren't particularly weak, so there's no reason to give them a power boost just to make them stronger.

[APorg]

Plus, the strength of halberds is relative to the presence of mobs whose Piercing resistance/immunity matches their Slashing resistance/immunity.  (Or, PvP wise, equipment that makes it easy for PCs to have equal Piecing & Slashing resistance/immunity.)

So tweaking mobs/loot will effectively make halberds weaker or stronger.

[Elyan]

As Legion said, the Halberd is a great weapon and I don't believe it needs any change. It's an excellent choice for barbarians and getting piercing/slashing resist gear on at the same time is difficult, you'd need some very expensive and rare equipment in order to use slots that'd make it worthwhile. It has two damage types and excellent positive damage when enchanted, it's one of the better weapons.