Author Topic: Vallaki - Roleplay XP  (Read 9838 times)

QDS

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Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« on: January 11, 2020, 12:14:45 PM »
  I only want to ask for opinions on this: Should characters belonging to canon factions get normal (not reduced|) RP XP in Vallaki? (Garda, Ezrite, Morninglordian, etc.)

EDIT: Added poll
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 12:54:27 PM by QDS »
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FinalHeaven

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2020, 12:17:07 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.



QDS

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 12:19:58 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

I will rewrite my post. I mean normal XP, not reduced.
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FinalHeaven

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 12:26:18 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

I will rewrite my post. I mean normal XP, not reduced.
After level 14 you get no roleplay XP in Vallaki.  My overall opinion is that if you're roleplaying you should always get some RP xp regardless of location.



Iridni Ren

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 12:30:35 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

I agree 100 percent.

This has been brought up time and again since the change, however, so the Devs know the preference of the player base. Bringing it up again is unlikely to budge them.

I would not favor the specific change suggested here because my position remains that basing the value of RP on the location where it occurs is what's problematic. Should Garda, for example, receive no XP at all outside Vallaki? I don't think as players we should ever feel that our RP is worthless...unless we do it in a specific place.

(Nor should those in factions want any further elevation of privilege over non-faction PCs, because that would only increase the existing perception of haves and have-nots we see voiced when other suggestions are brought up.)

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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2020, 12:37:54 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

Should they? The statistics show that when the cap was implemented, a trend occurred toward the results that the developers desired: less high levels in Vallaki.
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herkles

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2020, 12:41:19 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

I 100% agree.


foxtale

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2020, 12:44:18 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

Should they? The statistics show that when the cap was implemented, a trend occurred toward the results that the developers desired: less high levels in Vallaki.

I think watching statistics for results is the best way to measure success, but we also need to stay aware that the real desired result, below the bottom line, is overall player satisfaction - which might well have lessened since the measure was implemented. We would need to poll for this as well if we were serious about applying hard scientific method.

It is a tricky situation because even the random flow of ongoing stories could have impacted these results, besides the fact that we still had high levels swooping in for quick ganks of low to mid level PCs in low to mid level conflicts, which would only show as a blip on the radar of high level playtime in Vallaki but is the actual core of the problem we are trying to avoid by getting high levels away from there. In the meantime, said mid-levels, especially in the case of the garda, who are locally bound and were ganked, are unable to grow and stand up to this outside power.

I am not trying to make any definite statement, I would merely like the issue not to be simplified.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 12:54:20 PM by foxtale »
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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2020, 12:52:34 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

Should they? The statistics show that when the cap was implemented, a trend occurred toward the results that the developers desired: less high levels in Vallaki.

I think watching statistics for results is the best way to measure success, but we also need to stay aware that the real desired result, below the bottom line, is overall player satisfaction - which might well have lessened since the measure was implemented. We would need to poll for this as well if we were serious about applying hard scientific method.

https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=48357.0

Though player sentiment could have changed since.

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FinalHeaven

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2020, 01:30:57 PM »
Everyone should get roleplay XP everywhere when they're participating in roleplay.

Should they? The statistics show that when the cap was implemented, a trend occurred toward the results that the developers desired: less high levels in Vallaki.
The OP asked for player opinions so I gave mine, that's all.  My opinion doesn't happen to be in line with the developers, perhaps, but it doesn't change it.  It's how I think it should be for a number of reasons, but regardless I play where I have interest and where it makes sense for my character to be regardless of his high level.  The lack of RP xp isn't going to get me to go somewhere I have no story tie to, or no interest in, and I say this while not even being tied to any sort of Barovian faction (officially).

Just seems a shame that we desire certain Barovian factions to uphold the setting and the atmosphere of the area but they're frequently put in laughable situations of conflict with other characters they in no way shape or form can stand up against in PvP.

I actually retract my last point here.  After some thought I don't think this specific issue needs to have any real relevance to RP xp, especially when you consider someone like a garda character can still go get dungeon xp if they desire it - they just need to not be caught ICly doing it.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 02:59:28 PM by FinalHeaven »



SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2020, 02:37:28 PM »
We would need to poll for this as well if we were serious about applying hard scientific method.

Since the Strahd Poll, it appeared that we've had more frequent events run or supported by DMs between now and then.

It could be because the people have spoken or it could be mere coincidence (but then we'd be admitting the statistics are imperfect if we allowed the latter to be true).

It's most probable that the statistics are imperfect and we have no evidence to the contrary (and probably no evidence that DMs are more active now). I think that even if you get 70 votes saying satisfaction has lowered and 20 votes saying that's not the case, those results won't be adequate to account for all the people voting on the matter of anecdotal evidence and pure coincidence.

Just seems a shame that we desire certain Barovian factions to uphold the setting and the atmosphere of the area but they're frequently put in laughable situations of conflict with other characters they in no way shape or form can stand up against in PvP.

I think the problem is the way the PvP may be conducted, but that's for a different thread.

It's easy to say that the Garda are cultivated to be a faction of defenseless victims because of this cap, and that they're not adequately rewarded for their long-term commitment to roleplay in the region they're stuck with. It's not easy to say whether the cap is responsible for this or not, since the reward is supposed to just be the roleplay, and the XP technically has nothing to do with it.

Also, it's possible to get to level 20 and then join the Garda, and that's kind of on the individual player to make that decision, but the decision is available. We might see less of what you're describing if more people did that.
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DM Indolence

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2020, 02:40:06 PM »
Quote
Also, it's possible to get to level 20 and then join the Garda, and that's kind of on the individual player to make that decision, but the decision is available. We might see less of what you're describing if more people did that.

For the record, while I've never seen anything against this, my supposition would be that it probably wouldn't be allowed. If someone wants to correct me, I'll gladly put out recruitment posters targeting level 20s.

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 02:43:25 PM »
Quote
Just seems a shame that we desire certain Barovian factions to uphold the setting and the atmosphere of the area but they're frequently put in laughable situations of conflict with other characters they in no way shape or form can stand up against in PvP.

I faced the exact same problems when I played my guard and that was well before these changes. Fact is, guards are and will always be underequipped non-magic users, they're not meant to be the absolute threat. Barovia isn't Falkovnia.

That being said, we are taking steps right now to decrease the impact of high level characters stomping on low level characters. Changes should arrive soon.

McNastea

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 02:44:46 PM »
Quote

I think watching statistics for results is the best way to measure success, but we also need to stay aware that the real desired result, below the bottom line, is overall player satisfaction . . .

It is a tricky situation because . . . we still (have) high levels swooping in for quick ganks of low to mid level PCs in low to mid level conflicts, which would only show as a blip on the radar of high level playtime in Vallaki but is the actual core of the problem we are trying to avoid by getting high levels away from there.


I think these two points show why on paper it's a good idea and why in practice it doesn't work, that is if the only intended effect is to prevent the above.

What I didn't see mentioned (though I only glanced over everything) was that another reason for the change was to cause more server sprawl, where areas and domains weren't only traveled to for a specific event or dungeon while remaining empty the remainder of the time. I think in that regard the numbers would actually show that, at least that effect, has been accomplished. There are other reasons that having high levels around less is beneficial and honestly my opinion has always been that if you actually wanna rp there, and you're high level, I don't see why you wouldn't just go rp there. But I've never really worried about rp xp to begin with so my opinion on that is, eh.

Player satisfaction isn't always in line with what is actually good for the server or setting. Catering to what everyone wants tends to sacrifice integrity imo, but that's a rabbit hole I don't honestly feel like going down so I'll leave it there. I'm honestly not gonna respond to anything about it cause it will both derail and take more energy than I care to give past the opinion I gave xD

Discussing these things can help the dev team both identify and come up with alternatives which might address both issues, so that's good.
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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2020, 02:57:36 PM »
That being said, we are taking steps right now to decrease the impact of high level characters stomping on low level characters. Changes should arrive soon.

Oooh? Any more hints?...
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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2020, 03:07:29 PM »
Full disclosure I haven't actually read anything in this thread but it has just come to my attention that I, as a high level in Barovia, am actually denying lower levels their RP xp just by being present. It might bear looking into.
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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2020, 03:08:46 PM »
Quote
Just seems a shame that we desire certain Barovian factions to uphold the setting and the atmosphere of the area but they're frequently put in laughable situations of conflict with other characters they in no way shape or form can stand up against in PvP.

I faced the exact same problems when I played my guard and that was well before these changes. Fact is, guards are and will always be underequipped non-magic users, they're not meant to be the absolute threat. Barovia isn't Falkovnia.

I actually changed my opinion on this point after you posted.  That being said, it wasn't really my intention to suggest they be an absolute threat.  But they should have some effectiveness, I think, because as it stands currently it's hard to take certain aspects of Barovia seriously.  I'm not suggesting this has anything to do with the roleplay of the garda, to be clear, and we've also had several threads addressing this very thing not too long ago so I don't wanna derail this one too much.

Quote
That being said, we are taking steps right now to decrease the impact of high level characters stomping on low level characters. Changes should arrive soon.

This sounds like a very good idea, though I'd certainly hope that it's directed at the ganking scenario specifically and not also for detracting from roleplay between characters of various levels.



GeneralBonobo

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2020, 03:13:10 PM »
I honestly think the RP XP thing to be completely gamey and immersion breaking because the game is not only actively telling you you're too high level to RP in a high population RP area where you will usually find RP, but also that its punishing anyone else who is low level and is rping with you. The fact that you get punished for being too high level for roleplaying in an area just makes the server feel like an MMO, like I guess I have to get out of the barrens and head to ashenvale now and no longer return to RP with other people that are still there, otherwise they lose RP XP too.

DM Samedi

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2020, 03:14:06 PM »
Echoing:
Full disclosure I haven't actually read anything in this thread...

But.. The way you bring about change you want to see is not from punishing people for doing the thing you don't like. Instead reward them for doing the thing you do want them to do.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2020, 03:19:19 PM »
That being said, we are taking steps right now to decrease the impact of high level characters stomping on low level characters. Changes should arrive soon.

Oooh? Any more hints?...
I'd like to learn more too. I was very into the idea that anyone above level 14 would be scaled to that level whilst in Barovia, as divisive as that idea was.

Echoing:
Full disclosure I haven't actually read anything in this thread...

But.. The way you bring about change you want to see is not from punishing people for doing the thing you don't like. Instead reward them for doing the thing you do want them to do.

I agree, though the question will always be "is it punishment to remove RP XP?" and the answer is no. It was described as "a privilege and not a right" and though I wasn't aware low levels RPing with high levels are getting less RP XP, I guess that's just the price they have to pay for not wisely using their time to dungeon if leveling up is what they want to do.
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foxtale

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2020, 03:27:14 PM »
To add my personal opinion now, informed just by gut feeling and some thinking without big polls:

I think that the RP XP cap mostly affects roleplayers that for the sake of integrity and story developement stick with their theme or faction and do not go to dungeons all the time because they are OoC very eager to level up. Other players can very easily go to dungeons for an evening and return to Vallaki.

I am not very sure that this is the subgroup of players that is desireable to force to relocate - they do level slower than others as is. That is my main reason for wishing alternative solutions for dealing with problem high levels. perhaps a solution relying on soul and judgement instead of automation.
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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2020, 03:29:02 PM »
Quote
This sounds like a very good idea, though I'd certainly hope that it's directed at the ganking scenario specifically and not also for detracting from roleplay between characters of various levels.

Indeed, it's focused specifically on PvP and the phenomenon of high levels ganking lower levels in the low level zone. We are also taking steps overall to fix some issues with the current state of PvP.

QDS

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2020, 03:35:06 PM »
Quote
This sounds like a very good idea, though I'd certainly hope that it's directed at the ganking scenario specifically and not also for detracting from roleplay between characters of various levels.

Indeed, it's focused specifically on PvP and the phenomenon of high levels ganking lower levels in the low level zone. We are also taking steps overall to fix some issues with the current state of PvP.
At very high level, some RP xp in Vallaki will not count. While at mid level, where all rpers in Vallaki end up given no XP after 6 hours of RP... that is sad. Tested it today. RP'ed  for 6 hours in Vallaki, lvl 13 here, rested, and my rest message was the worse you can get. Nothing
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FinalHeaven

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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2020, 03:38:14 PM »
Quote
This sounds like a very good idea, though I'd certainly hope that it's directed at the ganking scenario specifically and not also for detracting from roleplay between characters of various levels.

Indeed, it's focused specifically on PvP and the phenomenon of high levels ganking lower levels in the low level zone. We are also taking steps overall to fix some issues with the current state of PvP.
I'm super interested to see what is in the works then.  I'm vaguely curious how this will effect criminal PCs of lower levels, but perhaps this isn't the thread to delve into it.




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Re: Vallaki - Roleplay XP
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2020, 04:11:20 PM »
As someone playing a member of the Fourth Sect, and is level 14, being pressured to leave the RP area that is pertinent to my character is annoying.    So if I want to progress at all, I have to leave Barovia on dungeon runs. Meanwhile, I might miss critical character RP.