Dungeon Core

[Ken14]

So, this idea has been swirling in my head for some time. And this may admittedly not be feasible. But I feel I should at least bring it forth!


I would like to propose a different sort of AMPC. I call it The Dungeon Core, but I imagine the DM's can think up a better name for it 


Though in truth, it's not exactly a PC. The Dungeon Core ( which I'll refer to by DC for now) would be an invisible force amongst us. It's not a monster we'd dread or defeat.

Instead, the DC would be a player who would spawn and direct monsters towards other players. The best comparison I could give is the Director Feature of the Left 4 Dead series.

I believe that such an AMPC could liven up dungeons. Obviously, there'd have to be limitations. Perhaps a timer on the spawns: the stronger the creature they call up, the longer the time?

They would of course require the ability to create yellow atmospheric tekst, to set the scene for their small encounters. And perhaps a way to directly control some of their spawns?

Perhaps also allow only a 'type' of spawns per app.

Here's an example : Let's someone apps for this. And they ask for 'vermin'. This includes spiders, rats and beetles of varying strengths. Let's say they go to the Barovia Crypts. And they start emoting the following when they spot a party:

'Suddenly, one can hear skittering taps echo down the halls. The chittering grows louder and louder…..'

They wait a few moments. Then:

'The noice has become deafening. And yet nothing in sight. Suddenly, there is movement…..Above! Those around have a quick flash of hairy limbs and venomous fangs as massive spiders drop from the darkness of the ceiling!'

And then the DC spawns several spiders!

Just a quick example, but it could be expanded upon. Perhaps the spider were driven out by some sort of (necromantic?) Hive Queen Or a Rat King.


I'd say it would make for small scenes of horror. And probably cause mass paranoia amongst anyone doing dungeons. You never know when something unexpected might happen.....

Y'know. Like real life.

Thoughts, anyone?

[PlatointheCave]

Some immediate issues spring to mind:

1. If I'm understanding this correctly this DC has nothing to do outside of their specific dungeon sphere. It's tough for AMPCs already to find scenes, and this would be even tougher.

2. These DCs will have absolutely no grasp of the true power of the PCs entering the dungeon. DMs, who have access to such information, already struggle to balance encounters. This would require doing so on the fly with incomplete information. I would not like to trust these DCs with enough information to make such decisions. Even if we assume the PCs are in the right level range, different party compositions have vastly different capabilities. It'll be very easy to accidentally wipe them.

3. XP and rewards. People burn a lot of resources doing dungeons, especially at low level. Are these DC's spawns gonna give them XP? If so, that seems something I'd leave in DM's hands. If not, this seems a recipe for frustration.

That's just off the top off my head. I don't ever see this being implemented.

[Ken14]

1. If I'm understanding this correctly this DC has nothing to do outside of their specific dungeon sphere. It's tough for AMPCs already to find scenes, and this would be even tougher.

No, you are misunderstanding this aspect of it. They wouldn't be bound to any specific dungeon. It would probably work best within a dungeon, though, hence the naming.

2. These DCs will have absolutely no grasp of the true power of the PCs entering the dungeon. DMs, who have access to such information, already struggle to balance encounters. This would require doing so on the fly with incomplete information. I would not like to trust these DCs with enough information to make such decisions. Even if we assume the PCs are in the right level range, different party compositions have vastly different capabilities. It'll be very easy to accidentally wipe them.

I might be wong, but wouldn't any AMPC not have a real good grasp on the PC's they're facing?

Though, do note, the DC wouldn't appear anywhere, so they could spy on the group, see how they do, and then consider whether to enhance their dungeon experience.


Though I do agree that the DC's ability to spawn in creatures should be limited, as stated with the notion of spawn timers and other limitations.

3. XP and rewards. People burn a lot of resources doing dungeons, especially at low level. Are these DC's spawns gonna give them XP? If so, that seems something I'd leave in DM's hands. If not, this seems a recipe for frustration.

I'd say that they should get XP from killing the spawns, yes, but a lesser amount then a natural mob of similar strength.

As for leaving it in the DM's hands.....That would be the ideal solution, sure! But the DM's (bless their dark hearts!) already have so much on their plate as is.

Maybe it might work as a intern stage for aspiring DM's, instead of an AMPC app?

[APorg]

I think the core idea is a good one;  being able to spice up dungeons would be nice.  Even if it's as simple as just being able to trigger some mobs to respawn in certain circumstances; or to lay down traps to a limited extent; and so on.

Technically it might be hard to implement, since it would either require creating a DM avatar with extremely limited powers, or creating a permanently hidden & invulnerable NPC avatar.

[ASymphony]

A DM avatar with limited powers isn’t really feasible in NWN, due to the special treatment they get in various ways. (Its theoretically possible to, with a _lot_ of work, issue some restrictions, but ultimately, there is pretty much nothing that would keep them from just spawning about anything on the palette, enter any area they please... pretty much do anything a regular DM avatar could do, unless every single item and spawn usage was checked back with a DB for authorization)

The closest thing that could be done would be:
- a regular pc set to invulnerable, invis and perma hasted with some spawn widgets for mobs, and maybe a talk through function.

Ultimately I do not think that would be all that fun for the player who’d need to run it long term however, plus as Plato mentioned, encounter balance is tricky, gauging the capabilities of a group of pcs without knowing much about them is pretty damn hard, and I can guarantee you that not a lot of players appreciate getting ‘randomly’ wiped.
Even if you know their PCs level and gear (speaking as a former DM, not on this server), there’s a world of difference in terms of what skill level players are on. And this ‘Dungeon Core’ wouldn’t even have the former.

[Arawn]

Giving AMPCs more atmospheric control over the world around them is something we have recently given some thought and attention to, and if new opportunities arise we’ll consider them. That said, the original suggestion as such is unworkable for reasons others have already mentioned.

[Ken14]

Fair enough. Still, I think something scripted may also work for dungeons in general, but we have a another thread for that, so I'll post there.

[immasturgeon]

I will reiterate what I sated in the other threat, an AMPC can very nicely fill this roll. AMPCs hanging out and harassing PCs in dungeons is great fun and fills nearly all of the mechanics that your suggestion does.

. . . But they are not being played as often as they have in the past.

Perhaps we should discuss how to get more people to play AMPCs? I'll look into what's been said in the past and think about starting a new thread.

[Arawn]

. . . But they are not being played as often as they have in the past.

That's just objectively not true. We've had as many apps in the last six months as we've ever had in any period before it, barring NCEs.

[immasturgeon]

I must qualify my timeline, as I've only been with the server for a year and a half. I'm speaking specifically to non-NCE population over the past 4ish to 6ish months. My perception is that AMPC activity is lower now than to my first year on the server.

I, obviously, don't dispute your word for it on a numbers basis. You specifically said apps, but you did not say approved apps, would you be willing to clarify between these two points?

I tend to stay pretty tuned in to what AMPC plots are going on, even if not directly involved, but do allow for my perception to be incorrect. Still, it has been my experience that they have been having a lower overall impact as far as breadth of players involved over the recent time period that I mentioned, higher numbers or not.

And . . .I will admit I have not applied yet, but finally I am nearly done with my own application, so at least I am putty my money where my mouth is.

[Dante101]

AMPC Applications <> AMPCs being played