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Author Topic: Vallaki Feedback  (Read 4164 times)

herkles

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Vallaki Feedback
« on: January 06, 2020, 07:49:35 PM »
So seeing how Vallaki doesn't have a feedback thread, I thought I would make one. So this a threat to provide feedback for Vallaki and its areas and provide ideas.  :mrgreen:

 :arrow: So the Southern Gate in the Government District(the one leading to the Market district) is really close to the transition. It is fine if there is one or two people there but any more than that and it becomes crowded. Maybe the gate can be moved up a little bit?

Related, I recall in the past that the government district was more open to the public. Maybe it could be opened up again? I think that this could provide more rp for the Garda especially at Night.

 :arrow: In Vallaki there are two boarded up stores, a dementlieuse one in the back alley and Simon's quill. I wonder if they could actually have an interior? the dementlieuse one might be interesting to have 'reopen' under new management since Vallaki is supposed to have magic stuff as it has a reputation for having arcane secrets hidden among its stores and back alleys, along with astronomers and astrological cults.

 :arrow: A lot of vallaki has empty spaces throughout the city where it is just large and empty and nothing there. I wonder if there could be more places throughout the town. Rentable locations would be great for player factions and native players here. As well as abandoned buildings scattered around that could be used for rp as well.


Leezil

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 12:54:40 AM »
As someone who does a ton of soup kitchen type RP, can we have a place which reliably sells cooking pots? <3
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SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 04:28:46 AM »
As someone who does a ton of soup kitchen type RP, can we have a place which reliably sells cooking pots? <3

Temporary solution: go to Krofburg and enter the Caliban bar in the cave, the bartender sells a food item called Potage which weighs only 0.5 lbs. and since cooking pots have no utility, it's a better alternative because you can carry more in case you forget to retrieve it after a reset.
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tylernwn

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 11:35:19 AM »
Would be nice if commoners had more to say, and if guards could give background on the city and maybe some directions.


RickDeckard

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2020, 03:54:18 PM »
Would be nice if commoners had more to say, and if guards could give background on the city and maybe some directions.

Can always speak to the player Guards  ;)

herkles

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 02:49:25 PM »
Another idea I had is that there could be various things scattered around town that show the history of the server. Perhaps hidden away there is a fallen statue of Lyssa von Zarovich from the time she became countess, or perhaps there are statues dedicated to past leaders of the garda and the past burgomaster and major story plots?


herkles

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2020, 07:25:12 PM »
Could the crafting hall have an NPC that would buy crafted stuff even at 1 gp so that way one could avoid just having 23 pages of stuff in the anvil of copper stuff.


MAB77

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2020, 08:24:20 PM »
Could the crafting hall have an NPC that would buy crafted stuff even at 1 gp so that way one could avoid just having 23 pages of stuff in the anvil of copper stuff.

We have an npc that buys crafted items at the warehouse already. Granted he is not buying everything, but we also have trash barrels in the crafting hall precisely for players to clean up their stations for the next player that will come after them.
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Abear

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2023, 12:04:36 AM »
Any chance Bianca could get a description? She's one of the first NPCs that anyone meets and she's just blank. Even a dozen words would be better than nothing.

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Miuo

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2023, 01:57:12 AM »
The ladys rest has gotten a few updates now for the main floor, and the basement. Yet the upper floor has remained unchanged. Could the upper floor be made a bit bigger to reflect a similar size to the main floor with a few more rooms added? With the floor getting an update visually as well? Nothing of high quality but just a little more oomph and uniqueness to the ladys rest rooms that set it apart from the generic inn room look that seems so widely used.


Cody

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2023, 02:02:57 AM »
Speaking of giving descriptions, please give good 'ol Sentire Mugur Costinus in the Refuge a description too, and his toret at his side.

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2023, 02:18:05 AM »
Any chance Bianca could get a description? She's one of the first NPCs that anyone meets and she's just blank. Even a dozen words would be better than nothing.



I swear she used to have a description. This might be Mandela effect but I 100% swear she had at least a sentence or two written in there.
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gesseritt

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2023, 02:49:05 AM »
More rentals, especially in the Residential District, please!

Miuo

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2023, 04:51:52 AM »
More rentals, especially in the Residential District, please!

Dunno, icly I'm not sure the locals would be all that welcoming to outlanders living in the residential area. Opening shops or businesses in the slums and warehouses is one thing. Living next to outlanders where the more common/upper class live seems like they would pitch a fit. Maybe if it was barovian-only rentals? But even then if it becomes a business and you have all sorts of outlanders traipsing in and out. The home may get vandalized to try and push out the resident. Might be a bit of fun rp, would like seeing non-Barovian places harassed more to add to the mentions and environment of the city when it comes to local vs outlander.


Hallows Elf

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2023, 05:04:37 AM »
+1 For more rentals and abandoned buildings.

Maybe a couple more Drain Rentals.
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Taintedglory

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2023, 07:07:34 AM »
The Docks district has alot of empty unutilized space that could be similar to that of the warehouse district. Maybe some small stalls or shops there of traveling merchants along the waterways who bring like, every summer or fall with them stuff that gets sold in their villages. Like Berez or Wachter stuff sold here once per season in the docks
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Feral

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2023, 08:09:05 AM »
Good afternoon folks!

Just wanted to throw some ideas down. Roleplay is the reason I go anywhere on the server. If my character doesn't know about it or I wouldn't have a valid reason for going I simply do not go there, but there are areas I do try to avoid and Vallaki is one of them. Before the below is read I'm not making any demands or complaining. The server is great as it is, but just wanted to get some thoughts/feelings down. Some things would be easy to change and others would not even if there was an agreement that change would be needed.

For comparison I would like to draw attention to two places in a similar setting.

The Village of Barovia
It looks like I imagine a village to look like in the setting. The layout is interesting. There are little grassy areas within the village, there is some mystery with the hidden places etc that you can find, little farmsteads on the outside map, the shops are linked on the MAIN ROADS and on corners like you might expect on a thoroughfare. The shop is opposite the crafting hall which is ideal so there is a benefit to keeping things together so you actually use them. You can scale the vines to get illegally in and out on your own terms which is just neat. It just has a lot going for it but sadly no one goes because of where it is, but that's more a players problem than a server problem. It is a delight to visit even if small. It looks and feels like a village, kudos to whomever made. I go often just to walk about in character. For a village, everything looks visually better than the city counterparts and I would imagine such to be the other way around.

Vallaki
To begin, as the city that's perhaps the most seen and one for the first things a new player might see, it's unfortunately the most drab place on the server without a doubt, with not much going on except the garda walking through. I really don't mean that in offensive way, but when compared to the other areas and places added over POTM's history you can see that it looks outdated. I think it could do with a redesign, a bit of added elevations here as it's very flat looking, contains lots of old school NWN placeables. I see a distinct lack of 'Gothic' features and most of the 'districts' are just adding time between between getting through the zones and don't add anything to the overall feeling. Music is Icewind dale I think? I don't think helps as it doesn't feel as oppressive as you might expect Barovia to feel. I imagine lots of terrified locals in their small cramped terraced housing, staring at outlanders between their curtains and shaking their heads in distrust. So not necessarily needing to be made 'beautiful' but could be made to look more interesting. I'm surprised there isn't a hanging rope, some stocks etc, a town square in the middle of the city? This would be a place for the peasants to gather with their torches and pitchforks when a new witch is found or someone is being hung or there was a new public declaration from the Burgomaster/garda? When I go through I think the things I expect to see are just not there. In my mind, the public being complicit and witness to horrible events are what makes the city of Vallaki what it is in the Ravenloft setting because the people love a good public execution and harassment of non-natives. There are no NPC's in the alleyways at all either, no 'illicit' workers, scoundrels etc so once you head off the main street it feels empty. Port is full of these characters and even the cutpurses skulk out of sight at night ready to ambush when you come past. A lot of the details added to the creation of Port are evident as to why people enjoy to play there in the city itself. I think a small redesign could really help refresh that feeling for Vallaki, that it's both interesting and dangerous to be here. Instead as it is, you just pass through because you have claims to get. Everything is fake locked/doesn't lead anywhere where as in Port pretty much anything with a door can be entered/interacted with.

NPCs
Perhaps my biggest issue is simply that virtually no NPC's have no lore/gossip/personality to give. I would love an NPC when you accidentally click on them to be like 'Did you hear that the garda, arrested the Burgomaster's son on accusations of witchcraft?'. Just anything? Even a local would probably talk gossip with an outlander. I'm sure many of the players will help write meaningful dialogues for NPC's for review. I know I would love to contribute to such! Not really changing much here but adds much needed flavour to the Vallaki setting. I am happy to talk to NPC's that have tidbits to say and lore for me to learn. Give them names? 'Barovian Female Peasant'? Or you know, Susan works fine as well! Adds something to the feeling when you have named NPC's. Maybe Susan will be that iconic townsperson whom always gets in your way when you're passing through, like Dmitru the Beggar! Whenever he gets in my way or I bump into him not paying attention, my character gives him that gold piece when other characters are around to see it! Because why not?

Native Characters
An idea might be to allow perhaps 'Native' Barovian player characters to make premises on the main streets to add to the bustle of the city which it definitely lacks. We keep being told that outlanders wouldn't be allowed. I can certainly respect that but what about 'Native' PC's to have rentable/permanent residences? Most of these spaces are not used anyway just empty doors which can't be interacted with. I think if we can encourage people to actually operate more in the city zones then people might actually begin to play their stories in the zones and not just all pile in the outskirts.. I can't imagine when the server was made that anyone intended everyone would just move up 1 screen and stay there for 90 percent of gameplay? In my mind this happens because Vallaki is just not an interesting place to RP as it is today. Even the garda stay in the outskirts because no one is there to police/engage with. Not a criticism but role play can only happen where there are other players and those players need a reason to stay in a place to be present for roleplay to happen?

As it is today, I think I go to the commissions office right at the Western side then leg it through to the Eastern gates to get to the Warehouses and otherwise pretty much ignore it. And Barovia is my favourite setting which makes it more disappointing I think.

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Taintedglory

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2023, 08:15:59 AM »

Native Characters
An idea might be to allow perhaps 'Native' Barovian player characters to make premises on the main streets to add to the bustle of the city which it definitely lacks. We keep being told that outlanders wouldn't be allowed. I can certainly respect that but what about 'Native' PC's to have rentable/permanent residences? Most of these spaces are not used anyway just empty doors which can't be interacted with. I think if we can encourage people to actually operate more in the city zones then people might actually begin to play their stories in the zones and not just all pile in the outskirts.. I can't imagine when the server was made that anyone intended everyone would just move up 1 screen and stay there for 90 percent of gameplay? In my mind this happens because Vallaki is just not an interesting place to RP as it is today. Even the garda stay in the outskirts because no one is there to police/engage with. Not a criticism but role play can only happen where there are other players and those players need a reason to stay in a place to be present for roleplay to happen?


I want to expand on this. Maybe we can in the residential or other districts with empty doors have like, really basic apartments. Innroom sized apartments that you can apply for a key with a native barovian, or if there is a way to have the NPC sell the key to barovian PCs only.  Just a tiny room, with a common bathroom/kitchen in the building for use by everyone. Have like ten of these rooms in a building, just big enough for a bed, some shelves, and a desk or something for the native vallaki person to say is their home. IDK what kind of resources this would require but its a neat idea.
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Miuo

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2023, 09:22:41 AM »

Native Characters
An idea might be to allow perhaps 'Native' Barovian player characters to make premises on the main streets to add to the bustle of the city which it definitely lacks. We keep being told that outlanders wouldn't be allowed. I can certainly respect that but what about 'Native' PC's to have rentable/permanent residences? Most of these spaces are not used anyway just empty doors which can't be interacted with. I think if we can encourage people to actually operate more in the city zones then people might actually begin to play their stories in the zones and not just all pile in the outskirts.. I can't imagine when the server was made that anyone intended everyone would just move up 1 screen and stay there for 90 percent of gameplay? In my mind this happens because Vallaki is just not an interesting place to RP as it is today. Even the garda stay in the outskirts because no one is there to police/engage with. Not a criticism but role play can only happen where there are other players and those players need a reason to stay in a place to be present for roleplay to happen?


I want to expand on this. Maybe we can in the residential or other districts with empty doors have like, really basic apartments. Innroom-sized apartments that you can apply for a key with a native barovian, or if there is a way to have the NPC sell the key to barovian PCs only.  Just a tiny room, with a common bathroom/kitchen in the building for use by everyone. Have like ten of these rooms in a building, just big enough for a bed, some shelves, and a desk or something for the native vallaki person to say is their home. IDK what kind of resources this would require but its a neat idea.

Im more in favor of this, because the rooms can be highly recycled when not in immediate use. Unlike the other homes Only that specific person or people with a key can use that home. So you get the current issue we have where all housing is bought up and rarely ever becomes on the market again. And rarely open to the public.

Homes that operate more like rooms mean that once the people are done using it after their rp it's immediately available for use for anyone else who needs/wants it. I think its a perfect middle ground between tiny inn rooms and the player rentals currently in.

Merry Munchkin

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2023, 09:54:56 AM »
The ladys rest has gotten a few updates now for the main floor, and the basement. Yet the upper floor has remained unchanged. Could the upper floor be made a bit bigger to reflect a similar size to the main floor with a few more rooms added? With the floor getting an update visually as well? Nothing of high quality but just a little more oomph and uniqueness to the ladys rest rooms that set it apart from the generic inn room look that seems so widely used.

+1 to this.  The Blood O' The Vine has rooms that are cavernous by comparison for barely any additional cost.  The Lady's Rest rents out broom closets.


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Miuo

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2023, 10:06:20 AM »

Vallaki
To begin, as the city that's perhaps the most seen and one for the first things a new player might see, it's unfortunately the most drab place on the server without a doubt, with not much going on except the garda walking through. I really don't mean that in offensive way, but when compared to the other areas and places added over POTM's history you can see that it looks outdated. I think it could do with a redesign, a bit of added elevations here as it's very flat looking, contains lots of old school NWN placeables. I see a distinct lack of 'Gothic' features and most of the 'districts' are just adding time between between getting through the zones and don't add anything to the overall feeling. Music is Icewind dale I think? I don't think helps as it doesn't feel as oppressive as you might expect Barovia to feel. I imagine lots of terrified locals in their small cramped terraced housing, staring at outlanders between their curtains and shaking their heads in distrust. So not necessarily needing to be made 'beautiful' but could be made to look more interesting. I'm surprised there isn't a hanging rope, some stocks etc, a town square in the middle of the city? This would be a place for the peasants to gather with their torches and pitchforks when a new witch is found or someone is being hung or there was a new public declaration from the Burgomaster/garda? When I go through I think the things I expect to see are just not there. In my mind, the public being complicit and witness to horrible events are what makes the city of Vallaki what it is in the Ravenloft setting because the people love a good public execution and harassment of non-natives. There are no NPC's in the alleyways at all either, no 'illicit' workers, scoundrels etc so once you head off the main street it feels empty. Port is full of these characters and even the cutpurses skulk out of sight at night ready to ambush when you come past. A lot of the details added to the creation of Port are evident as to why people enjoy to play there in the city itself. I think a small redesign could really help refresh that feeling for Vallaki, that it's both interesting and dangerous to be here. Instead as it is, you just pass through because you have claims to get. Everything is fake locked/doesn't lead anywhere where as in Port pretty much anything with a door can be entered/interacted with.

I heavily agree with this, as the first area players become acquainted with. And pretty much the most active area on the server I do feel like it should be the example of what people can expect from the rest of the server. And while there have been a number of smaller updates that have gone a good ways to help with that. It does still feel like there is a good bit more that can be done to make the area shine more and have more of an impact on the players, atmosphere and roleplay.

Most the time a lot of the map's feel ungodly dead and lifeless. I feel like it would be better to merge the maps from six to three. So you saw more player life moving about the city with the npcs. With the main road running between through the middle as the "divide" between the two maps. Compacting in the Npc shops and places with the player-run ones so it feels like an actual lively bustling city. I believe its also been said that the IG Vallaki is also larger than the lore one. So tripping it back some would make it more in line with how it should be. And less this colossal-looking city that's near the same size as port.

Maiyannah

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2023, 11:02:32 AM »
Please don't remove content.
Nothing good ever comes of that.

Also, with regards to the "it doesn't feel oppressive" vibe - nor should it.  Barovian houses are described in the Gazateer as being painted bright colours, often with flowers in the window and that kind of thing.  People gathering what little hope they can against the omnipresent darkness.  If anything, the server's depiction is already a lot more drab than the Gazeteer's description.
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ladylena

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2023, 11:04:16 AM »
I wouldn't be against seeing Vallaki brought more in line with the lore... Or at least the number of houses reduced to something more suitable to the described population?
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apeppertoo

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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2023, 11:13:48 AM »
The exterior areas are too large with too much empty space. I'd wager it's larger than Port-a-Lucine by a lot, which is not close to lore-accurate.

It'll be easier to make the place more interesting if there's not so much space to fill.
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Re: Vallaki Feedback
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2023, 11:40:39 AM »
I wouldn't be against seeing Vallaki brought more in line with the lore... Or at least the number of houses reduced to something more suitable to the described population?

I don't think it's size is untoward for the population that is described in the Gazeteer, but I would say the layout is made without much consideration for how people would live out their daily lives.
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