Playing Nice, Rumormongering, and Privacy Revamp?

[Alan Hunter]

Check this post before going on: https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=28128.msg344240#msg344240

First and foremost I know this is mostly in reference to people abusing this oocly. something which is just a suggestion to be more fairly is to revamp the wording to be fair to both parties. Having been subject to this ruling both on the rumormongering end and the end who was rumored on it is a very complex style of role play which in a gothic horror setting with out cellphones and internet was considered the common form of communication and spreading of talk. Gossiping aka Rumormongering is a complex form style of roleplay which done right can be very rewarding. However in my personal experience here on POTM it can be very damaging if it takes out into ooc disproportionally. I don't think it should be disallowed as it is part of the gothic horror and medieval immersion.

Section 5: Interacting and Roleplaying

- Excessively deteriorating, disruptive or disrespectful behavior, both by OOC and the elements you bring into IC, is not permitted. Always consider the experience of those you roleplay with, and strive to avoid OOC aggravation or grief. If you experience someone that you feel are disruptive, deteriorating or disrespectful to you, contact them and inform them of this. If they fail to cease, report it to a DM, and it'll be evaluated.

"Honestly I believe this should change because this seems sorely one sided and unfair when the role play is actually done well and breaks the immersion of the one performing the Rumormongering. It denies even the role play of others who could even investigate and play detective in finding the source of the cause. Now clearly brining ooc personal reasons to start something icly is a definite no-no. But, its clearly one sided that you have to consider another and not yourself. Frankly if we are all adults playing a kids game we need to consider both our feelings on this. Surprisingly communicating through pm isn't half bad. Never know if some ones having that day you know so consideration is definitely in order."

Honestly I think this should be cleared up to refer more towards ooc actions it comes of vague that even some one immerse in roleplay gets denied an opportunity of proper immersion. I totally side with playing nice and respecting privacy. But rumormongering's in game is fair game it should be. I mean a liddle whisper from a rogue can go a long way to a line of roleplay. Where a Gendarme could be tasked in finding the villainy spreading the awful rumor of a member of the council of brilliance and so on.

Personally I was on the wrong end of the stick on this one. And some actions were done oocly to circumvent genuine roleplay and even caused me to be turned away. I ended stopping it all together which kind of killed my character concept. I think a revaluation in do and don'ts might need to be considered. Especially with the increase of players and information ic these days we need to consider this rule a bit more fairly for both sides so it can't simply be abused by either party. I definitely think some wording to clarify on the ooc part is important. But, i'm not getting any good ideas in how to word it. Any suggestion guys on clarifying the rumormongering?

[FinalHeaven]

In-character is in-character, OOC is OOC.  While the wording does seem slightly vague by mentioning the IC aspect, no one is going to be punished for legitimate antagonistic or confrontational behavior as long as it is in-character.  Be respectful out of character, follow the PvP rules.  If the antagonistic behavior seems out of place a DM will almost certainly investigate, at which point if they believe it to be OOC motivated they'll almost certainly step in.

[Iridni Ren]

Assuming I understand what you're saying, let's suppose you create a PC concept who is a rumor monger.

Many other players are not going to want their PCs lied about ICly for no good reason--just as they would not want their PCs physically attacked and PvP'd for no good reason (the rumor starting could well be considered a mild form or instigation to PvP). In other words, saying my PC is a rumor monger is along the same line as saying my PC is a murderous psychopath and expecting that to allow me to attack PCs and NPCs indiscriminately. Players have their own concepts and RP they want to engage in, and they would prefer another PC not just use them as victim props in their RP of psychopath (or rumor monger).

To be sure, others may tolerate the rumor mongering and think it's fun. But as with violent RP, IC occurs with OOC consent.

If, on the other hand, you have an IC reason for your PC to target another PC and spread rumors about her, then that seems to me to be legitimate, sanctioned RP. That you wish to play a particular concept yourself is not enough, at least IMO. There needs to be a reason you have chosen this particular PC to target, some kind of opting in to what again might be seen as a mild form of PvP or a prelude to PvP.

As always, these RP questions cannot be spelled out precisely in all cases, which is why we have referees (DMs). But if you can be diplomatic and courteous with other players, even during antagonistic RP, often misunderstandings can be eased without bringing in a DM. Once a DM is involved, a player should abide by the DM's ruling, rather than get pissed if it goes the other way. Be apologetic about your error, both to the DM and the other player. Maybe the DM is wrong! So what: we all make mistakes and that's part of being a good sport and player (learning to live with unfair crashes and the occasional call you don't agree with). Our DMs have a lot on their plate, and the best way to keep them from burning out is to let them do fun things rather than give them hassles to deal with.

A bad situation will always be lessened by having a a cooperative attitude and trying to work it out rather than feeling personally wronged. Players may find they enjoy the server a lot more when they learn not to let grievances upset them and ruin the aspects they find rewarding.

[Leezil]

My reading of that post you've linked, OP, is that it's just talking about OOC behavior (and the potential for it to affect things IC). I personally see a huge difference between IC antagonism and OOC antagonism that affects IC. I've been on servers with cliques, nasty rumor mills...and I've certainly seen Discord communities on this server that engage in this behavior!

So yeah, I don't personally see anything in that post that's talking about IC rumormongering or antagonism but it's worth getting an official clarification on.

I disagree with the sentiment that there is anything wrong with IC rumormongering or social antagonism. It's RP, and no one should get to dictate how their character is discussed or seen IC. It's a rabbit hole of people protecting their characters from consequences and controlling other people's PCs. PvP rules are arguably necessary to ensure that people are still able to play the game and have fun, but hopefully this sentiment doesn't carry over into all IC actions.

I'd say that in character biography posts involving other people's PCs is arguably a great deal worse, as it can plant an idea of a character (true or not) OOCly that can't be responded to fairly in character like IC rumors can.

[PrimetheGrime]

Dreads post is very clearly directed to harmful use of OOC -in- IC, both as information and rumour mongering. The IC use of rumour mongering is fine, plenty use it. Idk why this thread was even necessary as I think the majority of folk here understand it to be regarding exactly what I said before, OOC information of an OOC nature. Whether it's brought IC or not makes little difference if the intent is to be causing harm OOC rather than keeping anything and everything story/character related IC. I don't see any point for a re-wording of something that really is very clear cut.

[Alan Hunter]

Dreads post is very clearly directed to harmful use of OOC -in- IC, both as information and rumour mongering. The IC use of rumour mongering is fine, plenty use it. Idk why this thread was even necessary as I think the majority of folk here understand it to be regarding exactly what I said before, OOC information of an OOC nature. Whether it's brought IC or not makes little difference if the intent is to be causing harm OOC rather than keeping anything and everything story/character related IC. I don't see any point for a re-wording of something that really is very clear cut.

It was neccesary to make a suggestion to get some clarfication. It felt to me vague and a bit unclear. If was so clear cut then a suggestion needn't been made. But given a lot of the input in this thread does help a lot. Thanks for the input sorry if this caused you any trouble.

[Iridni Ren]

I disagree with the sentiment that there is anything wrong with IC rumormongering or social antagonism. It's RP, and no one should get to dictate how their character is discussed or seen IC. It's a rabbit hole of people protecting their characters from consequences and controlling other people's PCs. PvP rules are arguably necessary to ensure that people are still able to play the game and have fun, but hopefully this sentiment doesn't carry over into all IC actions.

Emphasis mine. If the rumor spreading is a "consequence," then yes. But that's the point.

Our RP is largely text-based and, other than that, moving pixels around on a screen. Hence, the distinction between "sticks and stones" hurting and words not is largely lost. "To play the game and have fun"  requires every bit as much etiquette in what we say as what we do, as the same amount of harm (if not more) can be done to the other OOC player through words as pretending to hit a sprite on a screen.

Your use of "arguably" about PvP rules, however, indicates some skepticism about their need at all, so I'm not likely to persuade you of this.

[Arawn]

Dread’s post referred to allowing OOC animosity to affect IC, that’s all. As Leezil said, nobody gets to control how other characters view or discuss theirs, but if it’s OOC-motivated, then it’s against the rules (and the spirit of an RP community).