Updating Voracious roleplay and survivability

[Alan Hunter]

I'm sure this has been discuss before but I can't seem to find Voracious topics if the dev team has implemented a Ration item for this feat. So I was wondering ro recommend a Buther's knife item that would generate a Ration-like item similiar to the old way we use to use a skinning knife on animals for hides. This would consume the flesh similiar to the Voracious feat giving the character more options and role play.

Also is it possible to consider an upgraded version of Voracios that offers a higher Buff and allows the character to consume from any corpse.  Think a Charisma negative and a +OCR penalty would be appropriate as the character would maybe be more bestial or aggresive looking from thia boon/curse.

Example:

Carnivorous
Req: Voracious
The fiend has gone beyond their nature and into the curse realm of diablorism consuming the flesh of their victims no matter what they are. Their hunger almost insatiable flesh is constantly on their mind. Waiting for their next victim the fiend consumes the flesh with utter delight.

Grants a +4 to Str/Con + Imp. Unarmed
The fiends transformation begins as they consume flesh of any victim their appearance alters this being pointed ears, fangs, needle like teeth, long sharp finger nails, their appearance altered after eaxh meal. This causes a -4 Cha and the fiends OCR is increased by 2 their appearance unnerving and draws attemtion.

What do you guys think?

[ladylena]

Could be a neat idea to have something like a food ration item for it. But maybe that would make the feat too easy.  Perhaps if such was done, it could be only like 2 items from the flesh? That way it's not something like 'go kill, cook meat like normal, get tons of rations, not kill for aaages'

[Alan Hunter]

Yah thats true. Could be implemented that those with the feat are the only one with the crossing to do so. Maybe 2 carves only and if some one tried to do to many I mean its a huge risk if yer sitting carving multiple corpses similiar to eating them for the buff. Aquisition of the item shouldn't be to difficult especially if it leaves a notice much like the corpses you feed on. Maybe leave a yellow shout saying the area is thick with smell of iron and/ or blood.

[Legion XXI]

Giving +4 STR, +4 CON, and Imp Unarmed Strike ALL from one feat is extremely powerful for such a small investment. 

Also, the lack of food ration items for this feat is one of the main drawbacks for this feat, along with evil points and the IC risk of being labeled a cannibal.  It's a challenge to be embraced and RP'd, rather than something we should be trying to circumvent for quality of life.  It gives you an opportunity to play your PC as an intelligent, methodical cannibal who has to plan his next meal.  If you happen to go without eating for a while, it opens up avenues of RP like growing desperation to consume something.  Cheapening it to "food rations but with a different name" would be counter-intuitive to the drawback intended for the feat.

[Confused Warlock]

Cheapening it to "food rations but with a different name" would be counter-intuitive to the drawback intended for the feat.

Well said.

[Leezil]

Giving +4 STR, +4 CON, and Imp Unarmed Strike ALL from one feat is extremely powerful for such a small investment. 

Also, the lack of food ration items for this feat is one of the main drawbacks for this feat, along with evil points and the IC risk of being labeled a cannibal.  It's a challenge to be embraced and RP'd, rather than something we should be trying to circumvent for quality of life.  It gives you an opportunity to play your PC as an intelligent, methodical cannibal who has to plan his next meal.  If you happen to go without eating for a while, it opens up avenues of RP like growing desperation to consume something.  Cheapening it to "food rations but with a different name" would be counter-intuitive to the drawback intended for the feat.

+1

[volski01]

Giving +4 STR, +4 CON, and Imp Unarmed Strike ALL from one feat is extremely powerful for such a small investment. 

Also, the lack of food ration items for this feat is one of the main drawbacks for this feat, along with evil points and the IC risk of being labeled a cannibal.  It's a challenge to be embraced and RP'd, rather than something we should be trying to circumvent for quality of life.  It gives you an opportunity to play your PC as an intelligent, methodical cannibal who has to plan his next meal.  If you happen to go without eating for a while, it opens up avenues of RP like growing desperation to consume something.  Cheapening it to "food rations but with a different name" would be counter-intuitive to the drawback intended for the feat.

Since voracious already works on NPCs, and there are numerous spots in Barovia one can find hostile NPCs, being able to essentially farm "rations" without any sort of danger would be a little too much. It would completely cheapen it, agreed.

[SardineTheAncestor]

For this kind of power and emphasis on monstrous features, a character should commit to becoming an MPC. There are multiple MPC types which synergise well both in theme and gameplay with the feat as it is and the template can do the rest stat-wise while offering the necessary tools to properly set up encounters.

[Relapse]

Cheapening it to "food rations but with a different name" would be counter-intuitive to the drawback intended for the feat.

Well said.

+1

Voracious is not just cannibalism, if you want to be a cannibal with pocket rations go for it, don't take the feat.

[McNastea]

Giving +4 STR, +4 CON, and Imp Unarmed Strike ALL from one feat is extremely powerful for such a small investment. 

Also, the lack of food ration items for this feat is one of the main drawbacks for this feat, along with evil points and the IC risk of being labeled a cannibal.  It's a challenge to be embraced and RP'd, rather than something we should be trying to circumvent for quality of life.  It gives you an opportunity to play your PC as an intelligent, methodical cannibal who has to plan his next meal.  If you happen to go without eating for a while, it opens up avenues of RP like growing desperation to consume something.  Cheapening it to "food rations but with a different name" would be counter-intuitive to the drawback intended for the feat.

Well said, I agree

[Nemesis 24]

Giving +4 STR, +4 CON, and Imp Unarmed Strike ALL from one feat is extremely powerful for such a small investment. 

Also, the lack of food ration items for this feat is one of the main drawbacks for this feat, along with evil points and the IC risk of being labeled a cannibal.  It's a challenge to be embraced and RP'd, rather than something we should be trying to circumvent for quality of life.  It gives you an opportunity to play your PC as an intelligent, methodical cannibal who has to plan his next meal.  If you happen to go without eating for a while, it opens up avenues of RP like growing desperation to consume something.  Cheapening it to "food rations but with a different name" would be counter-intuitive to the drawback intended for the feat.

Also agreed.  The feat gives enough bonus already.  I think we should leave this as it currently is.

[Iridni Ren]

Technically it would be two feats (Voracious plus Carnivorous), but otherwise I agree with the consensus.

Having played a PC with the feat, it's plenty strong as is. It seems that taking this second feat comes with very little additional cost to the PC who has already taken the penalties that Voracious itself brings.

I think we should leave this as it currently is.

I would like for it to be removed personally...so I certainly don't want it made stronger IMO it's much more like a DP than an ordinary feat that anyone can select.

[Maverick]

I am all for having rations that the cannibals can eat. However instead of giving them the bonuses, it should work like regular rations. You eat it to benefit for a rest and that's all. It could also provide a flavor item that creepy people can use to go about making shrines and stuff.

I also see the advantage of not having rations for cannibals to eat. This would still keep the risk of being discovered. (However seening a person demeating a corpse could be interesting.)

[BraveSirRobin]

I am all for having rations that the cannibals can eat. However instead of giving them the bonuses, it should work like regular rations. You eat it to benefit for a rest and that's all. It could also provide a flavor item that creepy people can use to go about making shrines and stuff.

I also see the advantage of not having rations for cannibals to eat. This would still keep the risk of being discovered. (However seening a person demeating a corpse could be interesting.)

I think this seems more reasonable, just because of how our rest mechanics work. But.. Not for maintaining their stat bonuses. Though I seem to recall the feat mentioning that you only needed to eat every few weeks, so if it isn't this way already, it could be edited to make it so when you rest, you get the full benefits of resting -- As AFAIK someone with Voracious can still get a full heal from resting in a inn room, which is also feeding you (as indicated by your lack of hunger when attempting to consume a ration shortly after)

[Alan Hunter]

Hmm, a lot of criticism of this suggestion. Well they are two seperate suggestions. Though some people have pointed out and encourage others of their rebuttle. The rrbuttle itseld contradicts as you do incurr negative alignment by 5 points and its just not over time on a lengthy period almoat inmediately you can gain the evil alignment in mere minutes then days in progression in compariaon to normal action in which the risk and penalty is immediate.

Not taking the feat isnt' very conatructive as the purpose of the feat was to elaborate on the role play and immersion of the gothic horror of Ravenloft. As some one auggested it be easier to juat do an MPC, surely off the back, but deniably would cheapen the experience in progressing to that point in a sense when the player feels, or DM, that chracter has arrived to that point. My opinion but it felt the feat would help in that kind of progresaion of atory and role play development as this aerver seema to insist upon.

Now I can see how some can think it powerful. A bit no diffrent than paladin abilities or aome of the other mechanics topic about with controversy. But, consider yes the person gets an extra +2 in stat which they need to consume to gain and maintain, immediate 5 points to Evil every few seconds, would also gain a -2 Cha effectively reducing their Social skills by 1 point and effectively denying some certain social feats due to low cha of 6 or 4, a +2 in OCR which effectively increases their chances to ne rebuked if not difficult to recover when they recieve an OCR increase, Add in the fact if the feat effects their appearance they could lose Vallaki as an example be mistaken fer Caliban or worst. All this for 2 points more in STR/Con and a feat that effectively anybody can get via feat which this does with an additional feat to require.

Again just my opinion but if anyone has suggestion to augment this feat with appropriate penalties I havent read that yet. So far I do like the suggestion of having a ration like item cause as it stands it does make for roleplay as well as a benefit to a mechanic in resting properly which were said well.

I don't see it as cheapening the feat but thats just my opinion. Not all charcters will be methodical or intelligent. Some could be instinctual maybe primal from the action. Some unable to help themselves or ridden with fear of their shame. It provides a plethora of role play possibilities. Albiet food ration item is a poor choice of words I merely wanted to simplisticly explain what the item could be for this feat with out confusion. And I don't think anyones trying to circumvent for a quality of life merely improving on a concept that has already been developed and would further the role play benefit. I think its counter-intuitive to slate something with out a bit more brain storming or suggestions or at least a bit more response than just +1.

[Iridni Ren]

The RP of the feat is very limited. The one thing I will say in its favor is that it is an attempt to reinvigorate Gothic horror, but I fear it does so "on the cheap." That is, it gives an incentive to players themselves to RP a pretty horrifying behavior. That anyone can do so--including very new and thus otherwise weak PCs looking for a quick power/build boost--and it can easily devolve into pure mechanical ritual with little RP at all cheapens the effect. I think allowing cannibal rations would further diminish its horror.

If a player truly roleplays the behavior in a horrifying manner with other PCs, she is likely to see her PC closured in short order. Two alternatives are to find either PCs willing to go along with it or rely exclusively on NPCs, the latter not being the kind of RP we would prefer (that involving other players and facilitating their RP). Although I was able on Suspiria to find PCs who were willing to keep her feeding secret, even then such scenes become somewhat repetitive and thus diminishing of any horror value.

Some AMPCs and MPCs should have this in their kit. Otherwise, it would seem to me to be a Dark Power achievable by a very specific action (so that DMs could award it in circumstances in which good RP would be likely to occur). But I personally don't think it works as a "general" feat.

[Alan Hunter]

The Rp of the Feat is indeed limited hence the attempt to broaden it. Though "Cheap" by some standards its better than the current circumstances of the lack of gothic horror or emphasis as it stands. I mean with the discussion of Monks, Paladins, Clerics, and Rogues there are many avenues to cheap quick power/build boosts already implemented in the game that easily devolve into pure mechanical ritual with little RP which cheapens the class and effect of role play already. Said these classes with out props already have cheapened theatrics via feats, skills, or innate scripting.

There is the role play risk of the person being caught which is in part the thrill or worry of a player of closure. But, given the risk of closure and force closures on the server I think it kind of runs hand in hand already to be expected. Especially when people corpse hide or use other means to make a character unplayable. But who are "We" and how are "We" in the equation?

Well its up to the player to encourage and continue the horror if it becomes diminish to them then I guess the character loses value and play-ability. But, recently thanks to some people the role play of such Horror was fortunate and kind of reinvigorated the story for the character.

IF AMPC/MPC were more accessible and easier to be reviewed I could see it as being an option. But, this is my experience and my experience alone, less you are well known, or good with the Council, or Team, or have been witness by Dm's often it is less likely an individual who isn't will not be permitted or prompted access to these features. As it stands the emphasis of Horror for Ravenloft is mostly in the hands of the players and using what we can with in the limitations we have it's only natural to suggest broadening. Something is better than nothing. This is just a suggestion I don't expect the Dev. Team or DM Staff to implement it. But, can I ask if there was a way to improve this suggestion what would you recommend to make this feat more applicable or the suggestion of a food carry item more reasonable?

[Iridni Ren]

I agree with a lot of what you say, and my use of the word "cheap" wasn't meant to be overly negative, but rather to connote a quick-and-dirty fix when we do lack AMPCs and more DMs to enforce the setting.

Ultimately, all the tools we're provided still rely on us (the players) to make good use of them to achieve high-quality results.

[Alan Hunter]

True enough. So I hate to impose but could you help me with this? Not just the feat and suggestion but improving our Ravenloft to the days when we ran like children under covers and the scare was real? 

[Iridni Ren]

Regarding the feat, I would gate it as above (AMPCs/MPCs or coming after the kind of RP that is currently in the feat description and a failed DP check).

As to the more general, we have to do that as a community, but my quick suggestion would be to encourage players to apply for and play AMPCs, including AMPCs that are meant to be of relatively short life spans, rather than necessarily aiming for the full six months.

One idea: Play an AMPC confined to a specific location that "pops up" now and then unexpectedly to turn the routine dungeon run into the terrifying.

Above all, if we want the server to be scary, resist the ever-present temptation to metagame and to flex. If AMPCs are stomped on as soon as they show up, then no one will want to put the thought or effort into playing them. Likewise, though, no one should take on the role of AMPC with the idea of using those powers to stomp on lowbies.

To bring it back to Voracious, the feat should primarily be something horrifying, not something taken for its mechanical value alone or subsequently looked at as the golden opportunity to declare open season on the character. Yes, you see someone eating another human in plain sight, then by all means such revulsion might make you want to strike first and ask questions later. But don't, for example, use OOC knowledge to behave toward that PC in an unnatural way in an attempt to acquire IC knowledge that will allow you to justify killing the PC.

[PlatointheCave]

Regarding the feat, I would gate it as above (AMPCs/MPCs or coming after the kind of RP that is currently in the feat description and a failed DP check).

I agree. This is a feat that represents learning to draw a strength from the act of cannibalism that goes beyond common cannibalism. As a player that regularly interacts with shadier PCs, it more often seems like a feat taken as part of some bad guy starter pack that is barely roleplayed.

Worse, the feat can be used to impair a corpse. This is a PvP action and as such falls under our PvP rules - it's not something you can do to another PC without an overriding roleplay reason. "I needed a top up" isn't enough.

I'd much prefer it were removed or regulated.

I'm strongly against expanding on it or easing its use.

[BraveSirRobin]

Regarding the feat, I would gate it as above (AMPCs/MPCs or coming after the kind of RP that is currently in the feat description and a failed DP check).

I agree. This is a feat that represents learning to draw a strength from the act of cannibalism that goes beyond common cannibalism. As a player that regularly interacts with shadier PCs, it more often seems like a feat taken as part of some bad guy starter pack that is barely roleplayed.

Worse, the feat can be used to impair a corpse. This is a PvP action and as such falls under our PvP rules - it's not something you can do to another PC without an overriding roleplay reason. "I needed a top up" isn't enough.

I'd much prefer it were removed or regulated.

I'm strongly against expanding on it or easing its use.

It has been clarified by EO in the past that the use of the feat alone isn't prohibited, so long as you aren't excessively consuming a corpse in order to badly impair it. One bite is enough, five or six is overkill and considered to be an illegal action without RP supporting it. There isn't a situation in which a corpse can be used to feed upon and accidentally badly impair it without repeatedly feeding on the same corpse for something equivalent to a month IRL, which isn't a situation that has thus come up yet.

[PlatointheCave]

I've observed that precise situation.

[BraveSirRobin]

I've observed that precise situation.

I don't know about that, you'd have to have a corpse remain persistant, unimpaired, with the owner not respawning but logging back in over the course of several server resets and not moved as to not be found again. -- As sequestering the body is also considered a hostile action (which means if that was justified, the badly impaired may have also been justified, but let's not split hairs) and even in the event you did witness that situation, it isn't a common one, and it either resulted in a rulebreak -- which means it would have been resolved by the DM Staff, or it was ruled legal, in which case the point is moot.


It's a case so rare it's the exception, not the norm, and not how the feat is intended to work.


EDIT: To clarify, I'm not contesting whether or not you witnessed someone badly impair a corpse by accident. Just that the string of events for one individual to do so would require a lot of improbable, unusual circumstances for it to take place that do not appear to be commonplace.

[PlatointheCave]

Or a player to be ignorant of the rules and use the consumption repeatedly in one sitting.

Yes, this happens.