Brainstorming: Alternatives to RP XP Restriction

[FinalHeaven]

Most of the high level PCs that I interact with (my own included) absolutely fear the night, among any other number of things being toted as core concepts of gothic horror. 

There is no reason to attribute the concept of Gothic Horror to a character's level.  Instead, consider that different characters are going to behave in different ways - because this is a roleplay server. 

You only need to visit the Vallaki Outskirts once to see that it is quite common for low levels to gather in a large horde in an attempt to thwart the presence of an MPC/AMPC, spells and swords flying everywhere, despite being frequently warned of the dangers involved. 

Perhaps as a community we could cease spreading the idea that High Level toons are solely responsible for the break in immersion in low level zones.  Better yet, acknowledge that not everyone roleplays the same way regardless of level, that characters have different personalities, and then go from their to address possible solutions.

[Leezil]

I do agree that criticism should happen. I definitely wouldn't want a time-based restriction for anyone, that screws people over.

What about a temporary buff to RP XP which occurs after conditions the server's devs find conductive to RP? The conditions themselves could be quietly rotated on some regular basis, so that players might not intentionally seek out specific XP buffs but instead make it part of their normal activity.

Carrot vs stick, along with not focusing on only one issue to solve but instead to promote various things.

Some of these "good form RP" activities could be:
- Roleplaying outside of Vallaki
- Roleplaying during dungeons
- Roleplaying around rests
- Roleplaying with lower level characters

Edited to add a response:

My critique of this thread is firstly that any idea that cannot handle criticism in any form is ultimately an idea that does not hold water. If a ship sinks from the first stone thrown, I wouldn't board it. Far better is the idea tempered and tested than shattered like glass. Secondly, the assertion that the existing thread with 18 months of discussion that highlights an existing issue, which the community has at least a significant proportion of people asking for a change, is going nowhere and that a wholly new idea must be proposed in order for the development team to consider it implies a number of possibilities. None of which are positive, constructive or helpful. If the development team is unwilling to give any time to an issue that has been repeatedly brought up for a year and a half, I fail to see why they would give any time of day to a new idea altogether, if this rationale is played out.

Agreed!

My only suggestion is to entirely remove the RP XP cap and instead institute a new system where a percentage of every level must be accrued through RP XP in order to level. Five or ten percent seems an adequate starting point, for a roleplay server. Bonus suggestion; alter the RP XP calculation to include weighting for or against level differences, so that this mandatory RP XP requirement for levelling is also adversely affected by RPing with people far outside your level range.

I actually really like this idea, completely separate of any other issues or ideas discussed.

[Khornite]

Most of the high level PCs that I interact with (my own included) absolutely fear the night, among any other number of things being toted as core concepts of gothic horror. 

There is no reason to attribute the concept of Gothic Horror to a character's level.  Instead, consider that different characters are going to behave in different ways - because this is a roleplay server. 

You only need to visit the Vallaki Outskirts once to see that it is quite common for low levels to gather in a large horde in an attempt to thwart the presence of an MPC/AMPC, spells and swords flying everywhere, despite being frequently warned of the dangers involved. 

Perhaps as a community we could cease spreading the idea that High Level toons are solely responsible for the break in immersion in low level zones.  Better yet, acknowledge that not everyone roleplays the same way regardless of level, that characters have different personalities, and then go from their to address possible solutions.

^ This. There have been times where I head to Vallaki and once I reach the outskirts, my game straight LOCKS UP due to the number of people just chilling out in the night. As I've seen, the moment a PC can reliably kill a werewolf on their own, they're out in the night. If this is the primary concern, the level range that's an issue is a lot lower than 14 and it won't be fixed by removing RP EXP. What DOES get people inside? DMs swatting people down for being out in the night. MPCs and AMPCs making people's lives miserable. As it stands, if you sit outside the temple at night, the most you'll have to deal with is two grimishka and MAYBE three werewolves if no MPCs or DMs get involved. The other day I saw a level 17 get bodied by the red werewolf, what's going to reinforce "the night is dangerous" better than that? Maybe the answer isn't a blanket restriction on RP EXP and simply more DMs and MPCs running more events. POTM at peak hits near 100 people, you need a LOT of DMs to handle that many people. It doesn't have to be some huge event with a lot of prep time, just swing in with a buffed monster with some non-standard name that exists entirely as a one-off encounter to knock people around.

[Exordium]

I know that this is a thread for suggestions mainly, but I just want to clarify a few points from a developer point of view:

The idea of the RP restriction is primarily to limit the influence of high level characters have on the conflicts of low level characters. Western Outskirts is not the sole place where this can happen. The idea isn't to just encourage people to better RP (not directly, anyway). Rather the idea is to encourage higher levels to not participate in conflicts where they would be overpowering.

We're also discussing alternatives on the developer side and not all developers agree with e.g. how I view things - that's quite fine and expected. But for what it's worth, the system has, in a sense, worked; the average level of the Western Outskirts, Vallaki and surrounding areas went down after the system was introduced and the average level of the Mist Camp and Dementlieu went up. That was intended and reversing that could be counter-productive.

Hence, from my viewpoint, alternatives need to establish how they would limit the influence of higher level characters on lower level characters' play.

Note that encouraging people to spread to multiple locales - e.g. to faction bases, to Kroftburg, to Krezk, to various different inns - isn't necessarily ideal either, since we really want characters to run into each other. This generates interaction. If you have to travel between various locales hoping to find a player, this isn't an ideal experience anymore.

[Inti]

My only suggestion is to entirely remove the RP XP cap and instead institute a new system where a percentage of every level must be accrued through RP XP in order to level. Five or ten percent seems an adequate starting point, for a roleplay server. Bonus suggestion; alter the RP XP calculation to include weighting for or against level differences, so that this mandatory RP XP requirement for levelling is also adversely affected by RPing with people far outside your level range.

I really like this idea, though I suspect it would not be that easy to implement on the dev-side.


Iridni - I've always liked the idea of one-use 'rp-xp' reward cookies. I would stop short of 'xp-penalties', however, because, from my experience, it would create more problems than it would solve.

But one-time 'xp-buffs' players can award each other can certainly have a positive impact if implemented with right checks and balances:

* can only be used after the usual 'automatic rp-xp reward' (or two) pops up, i.e. after the system records some RP actually happening.

* one is automatically generated every 'x' RL days (maybe 2 times a week or so),
 - or after a particularly long RP-only session (10-20+ consecutive system rp-xp buffs).

* as with the dungeon xp-bonus for players who haven't played in a long while, the 'rp-xp-cookie' will give slightly more after a period of inactivity (of either of the PCs involved) or after a particularly long RP-only session - or, perhaps also, if the session involved more than just 2 people.

* the person who received the player rp-xp buff, cannot receive another like it for 'x' amount of time (perhaps several IG days?).  A possible exception of receiving 2 in a row would be if the receiver themselves recently buffed someone (perhaps a 'shadow' item can remain in inventory that destructs when the 2nd buff is received).

* a player cannot give the 'rp-xp-cookie' to the same player twice in a row - e.g. they have to give it to 1-2 different players before they re-reward the same one.

* DMs can give a similar 'one-use rp-xp-buff cookie', that works separately from the above system and can exist in inventory as a one-use item (though still only one of these at a time) for players to use - as a rare reward for exceptional RP observed from the players.


Anyway, I'd better stop before this becomes too elaborate to the point of scary to any developer who might even slightly contemplate picking this up. Properly balanced though, I think it could provide a considerable incentive for greater focus on RP on the server. 

----------------


On other points expressed here - I would prefer the complete removal of RP-xp cap or keeping it only in the outskirts and surrounding areas - certainly not entire Barovia.


I also like the introduction of buffed (as opposed to nerfed) rp-xp areas, such as the Drain, the dungeons, perhaps even Miner's Merriment and a few other strategically-selected places.

It could also be an idea to coincide temporary rp-xp area buffs with player-run events, such as tournaments, theatre performances, celebrations, executions, auctions etc. It might be too much of a pain to implement properly, but can't help liking the idea.


Lastly, on the topic of making the night more scary - yes it would be nice to have DMs dropping stronger mods to spread random terror, but even more interesting would be a group of AMPCs terrorising the outskirts, who would be much harder to bring down even by higher-levels, give them a bit of story and a complex agenda and a way to un-corpse if they are not vampires and things can get terrifyingly interesting. 

[Tycat]

I think back to my early nwn days on how things were handled with high level and low level players... here’s my thoughts.

The xp cap frustrates nearly everyone.
The xp cap is a problematic solution to a larger problem.
Vallaki is the only primary hub that makes sense.
Separating characters based on levels does impact rp potential.

This in mind, I put forth the following, perhaps radical suggestion:

Trust that high level PCs can rp maturely by giving them a chance to prove it, by removing the limitations of the server environment as a whole. Mpcs are vetted through an app process, therefore, with trust in their abilities, start mpcs and ampcs off at 18 to 20. Hear me out...

Mpcs are like bosses in this setting, and I can attest that enough low and mid levels can still take down a level twenty in pvp. Therefore giving mpcs a bit more bite will negate the need to shoo away high level characters who might even be the hero’s of these lower level characters.

In turn, stop “balancing” areas by “level ranges.” There are plenty of areas made for certain levels that doesn’t translate well, like demenlieu. You can gauge that by the xp you get, based on the challenge rating. The server isn’t meant to be solo’d as it is, so... let’s cut back on gearing areas towards level projections. Instead, make the dungeon spawn challenge rating geared toward the upper median of the average level of the party or highest level player. That’s how I remember worlds like nordock and regions of lore being. It’s possible even in vanilla nwn. With exception of course to notorious areas of great dread, obviously (perfidious, sithicus).

Next, make a hub - make the mist camp undesirable, maybe even hostile. Make it realistic. Move the campy feeling area out of the mist camp to port a lucine, or where the team would like the hub to ideally be. The mist camp is also problematic, and it should be simply a waystation, nothing more. Not all PCs fit in port’s narrative, sure, but if they hung out on the beach by the caravan, in the fringes, it might not be so bad.

These changes, I feel, will go a long way to improving the environment in an enriching way.

Addendum:

(And forgive my rushed grammar, I am tired).

In addition to these changes, encourage travel by expanding the merchant npc barter system by giving better and more reliable incentives to sell certain things to certain merchants. Like gems and jewelry to the gem and jewelry guy in port, armor and arms to local authorities or smiths, junk loot like vases and pottery and art to collectors, of which we have several in a few cities.

Increase xp gains in taverns and churches at night, decrease so gains outside. Rather, make people want to visit other places instead of hang out.

Scripts prompts to sound in the combat log should a hostile npc enter the area outside an establishment door so the people inside can decide to act or not. It’s not out of the scope of reality that one could hear a werewolf scratching or howling. Similar to the Garda horn.

Lastly, let’s remeber the staff are volunteers and we appreciate them.

[Iridni Ren]

Hence, from my viewpoint, alternatives need to establish how they would limit the influence of higher level characters on lower level characters' play.

Note that encouraging people to spread to multiple locales - e.g. to faction bases, to Kroftburg, to Krezk, to various different inns - isn't necessarily ideal either, since we really want characters to run into each other. This generates interaction. If you have to travel between various locales hoping to find a player, this isn't an ideal experience anymore.

Thanks for the response. A primary motivation in the "juju" idea was trying to think of some way of penalizing high levels for exploiting their power in *bad* ways toward low levels, and instead using their powers for good (not in the alignment sense, but in the sense of causing low levels to enjoy the game more).

Likewise, I wanted to respect that high levels who have IC reasons for staying in a certain area be able to do so...provided they were good citizens of that area. If they were being a malign influence, they would run the risk of actual XP loss.

Since the tokens can be used on only those of equal or higher level, they compensate for some of the imbalance that comes from normal game mechanics and restore a little parity at least to the RP part of the game. I went back and read Soren's motivation when he implemented the first RP XP reduction, and he said that high levels were not only hurting low levels in activities involving combat, but using their "heft" to steamroll lower levels or ignore them in events and other RP situations.

At least in the NCE area, allowing low levels to somewhat penalize such behavior should help curb it.

Iridni - I've always liked the idea of one-use 'rp-xp' reward cookies. I would stop short of 'xp-penalties', however, because, from my experience, it would create more problems than it would solve.

Inti,

Please see my comments above as to the objectives for having the penalty. As the Devs view the current system as at least helping lessen the problem of high levels dominating or otherwise acting to the detriment of low levels' experience of the game, any alternative proposed should include an alternative remedy.

Do I want my high level having XP drained by a 2nd level? No, but if she is in the "home" of the second level, she should be on her best behavior.

The Devs can set these penalties however they see fit. Perhaps the first in a given time period is very low, but if a high level is hit with several within, say, a server reset, the penalty escalates.

[sadim]

I am a new player so please bear with me if the "suggestion/idea" (which is meant to really be more of a question really) is something already discussed/dismissed/etc.

How would the playerbase feel about a literal debuff to PC characters, applied once they reached a certain level, and increasing in severity for every level past that one? I'll try to elaborate.

I am not sure how "canon" this could be (or turned into for the server's sake), but hypothetically Strahd, as the Dark Lord and recipient of a LOT of information gathered through spying (wolves/beasts as well as the Vistani, etc) becomes aware of individuals whose level of prowess and thus threat grow to a point where he'd intervene, but not directly (the same scenario could use the Dark Powers themselves instead of Strahd, in the end, while /players/ would know the whats and whys of the debuff, their characters wouldn't without the typical FOIC). In my mind at least it could be justified by the numbers of outlanders and natives-turned-adventurers that spend time in Barovia being that much greater than any other domain.

So whenever one of these individuals is within Strahd's domain, they are weakened, to the point that, while there, they would be effectively contained, neutered to a threat level that Strahd/The Dark Powers feel they are better off dealing with them if needed (mechanically meaning to reduce the power increase given by levels, ignoring Item Power as POTM already doesn't use that system for balance). In gameplay terms it would mean that if a character who is level 15 for example has reasons to be/stay in Barovia, a debuff would be applied to the character to make it closer to a level 14 character in terms of power (I am using level 14 as an example as I think this is when the RP XP cap comes).

So those characters have the options of staying and suffering the penalty, or choosing to spend time elsewhere. The ones who do remain could still partake in RP with lower levels, have tutor/student RP, act and react to Barovian politics/environment/etc, do faction stuff, everything else, but as they progress mechanically and the debuff gets more severe, they would still be within a similar level of power as the highest currently supported/suggested/desired for Barovia.

I imagine a debuff different to the "Fatigue" one, as it would have to account for the Feats a character can acquire, and it would in the end be probaly very, very cumbersome the higher level a character gets. Totally random figures here, but something like a -2 to stats at level 15, -2 to stats and "Perma-Fatigue" at level 16, etc. Combat wise this would bring them that much closer to the supported/suggested/desire level of the other PCs in the area, as well as closer to A/MPCs.

(remainder to be gentle to the new player in your criticism, which is welcomed!)

[APorg]

I think the idea of a debuff curse that fires on zone entry if in the low level areas is a nice idea, actually.

[Iridni Ren]

I imagine a debuff different to the "Fatigue" one, as it would have to account for the Feats a character can acquire, and it would in the end be probaly very, very cumbersome the higher level a character gets. Totally random figures here, but something like a -2 to stats at level 15, -2 to stats and "Perma-Fatigue" at level 16, etc. Combat wise this would bring them that much closer to the supported/suggested/desire level of the other PCs in the area, as well as closer to A/MPCs.

Although a debuff is one possibility (and I do like the idea of trying to justify it ICly):

* The penalty suggested of -2 to all stats seems quite high. As a player of an ECL2 who has often been lectured about the value of her +2 to two stats being worth approximately two levels, I can't help but think that any debuff should be in the same ballpark as ECL. That is, if we're trying to level the playing field and not just ban high levels via the back door by making the penalty so harsh few would endure it.

* Its primary effect will be to encourage segregation:

Encouraging people to spread to multiple locales - e.g. to faction bases, to Kroftburg, to Krezk, to various different inns - isn't necessarily ideal either, since we really want characters to run into each other. This generates interaction. If you have to travel between various locales hoping to find a player, this isn't an ideal experience anymore.

That is, any effect which persists only when in the low-level zone and ends when in the high-level zone will still cause high levels to dash back and forth between the two. Or stop going to the low-level area entirely.

When players bring removing the restriction up, it's not their intent that the current very OOC situation be made worse.

I would prefer a solution that does not assume good RP is based on location or that high levels are inherently malign influences when around low levels so they need to be kept in separate but equal areas of the server.

If segregation is what we want, should low levels be kept only in the NCE area? All of us have been on dungeon runs I'm sure in which we were with those of much lower level who really could not handle what they were trying to do, lessening the enjoyment of the high levels.

I also would not like to see the situation worsened by having this debuff occur as presently described: throughout all of Barovia, rather than just the NCE area. That would include some substantially difficult content.

[sadim]

The really gentle feedback is greatly appreciated

Iridni Ren: The numbers and effects were absolutely thrown around, with no regards to balance or anything, just to illustrate the point. I am sure more experienced players and specially the DM/Dev team would have much better and fairer ideas for those (just to clarify that I was not really suggesting or advocating the -2 to stats, Perma-Fatigue, etc). I do however think that the "debuff curse" really /should/ be very meaningful and cumbersome, to compensate for the fact that while PCs who can't handle adventure and specially exploration in other Domains/Higher Level Areas, those under the "debuff curse" have that option. As for separating the player base, I don't /think/ something like the debuff curse would cause players to spread any more or less than the RP XP Cap.

[Iridni Ren]

The really gentle feedback is greatly appreciated

Iridni Ren: The numbers and effects were absolutely thrown around, with no regards to balance or anything, just to illustrate the point. I am sure more experienced players and specially the DM/Dev team would have much better and fairer ideas for those (just to clarify that I was not really suggesting or advocating the -2 to stats, Perma-Fatigue, etc).

Fair enough. Likewise, my suggestion of ECL is that we have an existing system of "buffs" that have long been argued as being equalizers of disparate levels. Therefore, the debuff applied to someone a single level over the "unwelcome high level" mark should use ECL 1 as a comparison. And so on.

As for separating the player base, I don't /think/ something like the debuff curse would cause players to spread any more or less than the RP XP Cap.

The result would depend entirely on the severity of the debuff.

Edited to add:

I do however think that the "debuff curse" really /should/ be very meaningful and cumbersome, to compensate for the fact that while PCs who can't handle adventure and specially exploration in other Domains/Higher Level Areas, those under the "debuff curse" have that option.

The reason high levels can travel to other content areas is they have put in their time as low levels, whereas low levels have not. Low levels who put in equivalent time will presumably become high levels and then explore the other areas in the future.

[Khornite]

The really gentle feedback is greatly appreciated

Iridni Ren: The numbers and effects were absolutely thrown around, with no regards to balance or anything, just to illustrate the point. I am sure more experienced players and specially the DM/Dev team would have much better and fairer ideas for those (just to clarify that I was not really suggesting or advocating the -2 to stats, Perma-Fatigue, etc). I do however think that the "debuff curse" really /should/ be very meaningful and cumbersome, to compensate for the fact that while PCs who can't handle adventure and specially exploration in other Domains/Higher Level Areas, those under the "debuff curse" have that option. As for separating the player base, I don't /think/ something like the debuff curse would cause players to spread any more or less than the RP XP Cap.

Problem I see it can just be cleared with a restoration potion though. This would be a pretty huge penalty to Vallaki bound PCs who can't leave the area due to story reasons.

[APorg]

Problem I see it can just be cleared with a restoration potion though. This would be a pretty huge penalty to Vallaki bound PCs who can't leave the area due to story reasons.

If you're a Vallaki bound PC over level 14/15, you're probably there for RP more than anything else, so being under the effect of a debuff curse is probably not going to affect you most of the time. Especially if the debuff curse can be lifted temporarily by a Restoration, I'd bet that a lot of Vallaki-bound PCs would prefer this idea over the no/low RP XP Restriction.

But the details aren't too important at this stage. This is precisely the sort of original ideas I'd hope we see, so thank you to sadim. Let's hope we can inspire the Dev team to find an alternative that everyone prefers.

[Booksarefun666]

If you don't want high level play being such a deciding factor to conflict then why are we putting all the emphasis on later level play? Corpse-hiding isn't permadeath, but it can end a player, and that's primarily decided on who grinded more in Har'akir. There's absolutely no incentive to closuring beyond good boy points and all the incentives to bitterly hold onto your character through enchanted gear, more stats to win PvP with, and just being more established over the long term with all the relationships along the way.

RP exp caps doesn't stop from someone paying a visit to Vallaki from the Mist camp. In fact, it's a way for people to avoid any doman's baggage by just simply being in the mist camp to RP and doing leveling until something so big comes up that you can take a short wagon ride and jog back to the outskirts. Nevermind the fact that if you finally get to 20 after all that grinding, you're not only absurdly powerful but you finally freed yourself entirely from the exp grind.

And they're rewarded for it, because all the 14+ RP exp is in the mist camp and all the dungeon grinding is formed in the mist  camp and none of the player guards there to meddle in anything. With the way everything is set up, you will continue have high-level play being king when they're rigged up in enchanted adamantine gear with absolutely no negatives to it beyond an initial exp hit.

But I think this is all a moot point because the cat's already out of the bag. Enchanted gear is already a thing, the crafts have been grinded out, and all the high level players are already here. It'd take months or even years for the voluntary closures make it where the uber-geared are gone and you're not going to get rid of the mist camp, which really just seems like a safe place to have social RP with no conflict -- barring the occasional adventurer spat involving someone's girl.

[sadim]

Oh well, if there is no way to have a curse debuff not be removed by a restoration spell/pot, then the idea is completely irrelevant.

Iridni Ren: About your last point, I am aware that levels are not granted and always earned/obtained through playtime and dedication. If the explanation of the idea hinted that such is unfair, it was not my intention. Aprogressist started the thread asking for alternatives to a system that already penalizes higher levels for being in certain areas, so I was only trying to offer something to the brainstorming that was also a penalty, but didn't involve blocking RP XP gains. But if the engine can only really deal with curses/debuffs the way Khornite explained, then the idea has no merit at all anyway.

[zDark Shadowz]

If only level-sync was so easily doable. Maybe someday beamdog will have something.

[PrimetheGrime]

I think for now the main focus should be getting rpxp back to the areas surrounding vallaki. Give players more incentive to actually hang around and play in areas outside of the hub. It also gives the more antagonistic players a chance to get their rpxp without running the risk of being ground pounded by a hungry higher level who has nothing else to do. Nurturing antags makes for a more interesting server in my opinion.

[Iridni Ren]

I think for now the main focus should be getting rpxp back to the areas surrounding vallaki. Give players more incentive to actually hang around and play in areas outside of the hub. It also gives the more antagonistic players a chance to get their rpxp without running the risk of being ground pounded by a hungry higher level who has nothing else to do. Nurturing antags makes for a more interesting server in my opinion.

True. Although removing the RP penalty would presumably be easy, replacing it with something else would require Dev time. Naturally, I like my bad/good juju idea, but it's fairly complex and not modeled on anything that could easily be copied or adapted (at least that I know of).

As far as priorities, this part of the game seems low. I don't like the current system, but players have (for the most part) adapted to it. And as I said in the other thread, for high levels RP XP is mostly psychological anyway.

[PrimetheGrime]

You're missing the fact that anyone outside of Vallaki can still only gain rpxp till 14. That doesn't help the people wishing to set up in secluded areas away from the outskirts to promote RP in the lesser used areas of Barovia. Not gaining rpxp in that situation is a detriment, especially if you cannot feasibly go to say, the MC without being jumped.

[Iridni Ren]

You're missing the fact that anyone outside of Vallaki can still only gain rpxp till 14. That doesn't help the people wishing to set up in secluded areas away from the outskirts to promote RP in the lesser used areas of Barovia. Not gaining rpxp in that situation is a detriment, especially if you cannot feasibly go to say, the MC without being jumped.

I'm not missing that; rather, I think you've missed most of what I've said throughout this discussion

1) I would like for the RP XP restriction to be removed (and have argued very strongly for its removal in the past).*

2) Even so, the impact of RP XP on someone above 14th level I'm confident is more about mindset than actual numbers, based on my purely RP ECL2 character. She gets full RP XP in Vallaki and levels at a glacial pace.

3) Because the Devs believe it is partly at least accomplishing what they want it to, they are loathe to remove it without an alternative (hence this thread). Yet an alternate system (rather than its outright removal) would require development work. I can't speak for Devs' interest, but I do know such work was not anything players picked as a priority when polled.

As to "being jumped," I have seen plenty of antagonist characters in the Mist Camp. My protagonist rarely goes there without friends or suitably buffed, so I don't think it's a place any high profile PC can feel completely safe and at ease. But if a PC is in that situation from the PC's IC behavior, that is part of rolling with the consequences.

*Although I've consistently argued against the RP XP restriction, I'll point out your own earlier position:

It's frankly sad to see good roleplay get destroyed by higher levels needing to flex. Honestly I think the restriction could stay as long as this is the case, and maybe there is a way for everyone of a level 10+ to agree upon hanging around VoB or even port? Dunno, just my two cents.

Welcome to the Light!

[PrimetheGrime]

Pulling up my previous decision on what I thought would solve the issue is hardly necessary and feels like you're trying to drive a personal point rather than a constructive one. Peoples opinions change. If you don't change, you don't grow. You may think that it's a mindset about rpxp, but it's not. The very real issue with it is that it doesn't stop high levels from coming on down when they wish to. Take the current situation in the outskirts right now. There are lots of higher level players roaming around the vallaki area and they're not there to converse in a tavern or hang around by the temples.

You say that you're all for RP XP restriction to be removed, that's fine, but from your previous post which I replied to, and you believed that the rpxp impact was psychological. It's not. As someone playing an antagonist character that is stuck in Barovia, I have no choice but to handle my business in Barovia without rpxp, because what i am doing requires me to be in Vallaki rather than VoB or the MC+. I'm sure you're having a tough time with your ECL2, but that doesn't change the fact that those of us above the level of 14 or on the cusp of it are suffering from the RPXP restrictions. Once again, I feel I need to ingrain this, that I'm glad you are for RPXP, what I am replying to and commenting on is your opinion on the RPXP problem being psychological. And I'd like to add that some of us dont wish to have to dungeon to gain the xp necessary to stand a chance as an antag pc. It's a tough world out there.

[DM Brimstone]

Let's keep the discussion to the topic at hand and not directed towards specifics about other players or other player's characters, please.

[Exordium]

Personally, I find myself liking the debuff idea the more I think of it. It's pretty easy to explain IC and would be a more significant barrier to high levels than simple RP XP restriction is. On the technical side of things, it's possible to e.g. fully block level 8 and 9 spells from working, lower the effective caster levels, decrease skill ranks, and decrease ABs accordingly. Barovia could essentially have kind of a "soft" cap of level 14. Some abilities could continue to scale - like saving throws, HP increases, - giving some power to levels higher than 14. Some characters such as the guard members could be an exempt to this.

We haven't talked about this on the developer side so I'm 100% talking of my personal view, but I'd accept a 2/4 RP XP restriction with the debuff system in place.

[PrimetheGrime]

Personally, I find myself liking the debuff idea the more I think of it. It's pretty easy to explain IC and would be a more significant barrier to high levels than simple RP XP restriction is. On the technical side of things, it's possible to e.g. fully block level 8 and 9 spells from working, lower the effective caster levels, decrease skill ranks, and decrease ABs accordingly. Barovia could essentially have kind of a "soft" cap of level 14. Some abilities could continue to scale - like saving throws, HP increases, - giving some power to levels higher than 14. Some characters such as the guard members could be an exempt to this.

We haven't talked about this on the developer side so I'm 100% talking of my personal view, but I'd accept a 2/4 RP XP restriction with the debuff system in place.

If that is do-able, are you able to lower it further in Vallaki? Say to like, 10 or 12? Even if not I love the idea of the Debuff zone because it has great potential both IC and OOC as a ways to even the playing field. How simple would it be for the Devs to make this happen?