Author Topic: Invidian Nomenclature?  (Read 367 times)

ViktorYouFool

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Invidian Nomenclature?
« on: July 30, 2019, 09:29:16 PM »
I've been reading up on Invidia lately and I'm slightly confused. The gazetteer lists the languages as Balok, Mordentish, Falkovnian, Luktar, and Vaasi, with Balok being the dominant language. Meanwhile, the example names are all vaguely Russian. That's fine.. but then why are the IG Invidian stuff given Spanish naming conventions? The Invidian Tercio Crossbowmen come to mind immediately, and I seem to recall some Spanish-named Invidian weapons floating around. Obviously the cultural tropes Invidia leans into are inspired by the Spanish, but how does that translate IC into language? If you made an Invidian character, would you refer to Tercios and Rodeleros even though those are both terms from a language that doesn't exist and doesn't sound at all like Balok.

I have a similar question about Borca, whose dominant language is also Balok. Yet there are IG items from Borca that have Italian names (the Condottieri's mace, for instance). What do we make of the italian terminology in Balok-speaking Borcan? Do we just assume that Tercio (literally Spanish for "third" and Condottieri (Italian for "contractor") are both Balok words despite neither being Romanian? Or am I just missing something?

FellowMan

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Re: Invidian Nomenclature?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2019, 09:38:34 PM »
I can't speak on the Invidian questions, but Borca's Balok doesn't sound the same as Barovian Balok.

They're the same language, and if your character knows Balok they can understand both, but Borcans are said to have a very strong, lilting accent. I picture it as Romanian with an extremely heavy Italian accent.

Boots

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Re: Invidian Nomenclature?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2019, 09:51:38 PM »
I couldn't find much on it either when I made Monica, so just went with the spanish kind of names you see in that dungeon. I don't think it's a huge deal, I mean it's gotta have been legit at one point, right? XD



Iridni Ren

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Re: Invidian Nomenclature?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2019, 09:57:37 PM »
I saw Herkles and Arawn discussing Invidia once, but can't remember the outcome. Found this while looking for the discussion:

Quote
Quote from: Bluebomber4evr on November 12, 2011, 11:21:14 PM

    I wouldn't get all that hung-up on real-world cultural comparisons. Invidia is a mix of Italian, Spanish, and Romanian cultures, really. We chose to use Spanish terms for Invidians to avoid confusion with Italian names for Borcans and Romanian names for Barovians, but Invidia is not mirror for the culture or society of Spain.

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ViktorYouFool

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Re: Invidian Nomenclature?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 10:02:41 PM »
I saw Herkles and Arawn discussing Invidia once, but can't remember the outcome. Found this while looking for the discussion:

Quote
Quote from: Bluebomber4evr on November 12, 2011, 11:21:14 PM

    I wouldn't get all that hung-up on real-world cultural comparisons. Invidia is a mix of Italian, Spanish, and Romanian cultures, really. We chose to use Spanish terms for Invidians to avoid confusion with Italian names for Borcans and Romanian names for Barovians, but Invidia is not mirror for the culture or society of Spain.

So should I take that to mean the italian jargon is canon and IC if you come from Borca? Same with the bits of spanish from Invidia?

Iridni Ren

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Re: Invidian Nomenclature?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 10:09:34 PM »
I definitely would answer yes to the Borcan question. And from the above I would also answer yes to your question about Invidia.

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PrimetheGrime

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Re: Invidian Nomenclature?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2019, 10:10:57 PM »
I'd say so, yeah. You cant give each domain too much of a tilt towards it's real life counterparts because ultimately it's just a base, they aren't the same culture, they just have parts of different cultures blended together.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: Invidian Nomenclature?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2019, 03:11:49 AM »
I saw Herkles and Arawn discussing Invidia once, but can't remember the outcome. Found this while looking for the discussion:

Quote
Quote from: Bluebomber4evr on November 12, 2011, 11:21:14 PM

    I wouldn't get all that hung-up on real-world cultural comparisons. Invidia is a mix of Italian, Spanish, and Romanian cultures, really. We chose to use Spanish terms for Invidians to avoid confusion with Italian names for Borcans and Romanian names for Barovians, but Invidia is not mirror for the culture or society of Spain.

So should I take that to mean the italian jargon is canon and IC if you come from Borca? Same with the bits of spanish from Invidia?


In Borcan Balok, they do not say Da, they say Si, as the local dialect, and terms like, 'La Revedere,' get used. Cassius could probably explain this better. Whereas a Barovian will say something like Buna Ziua or something instead of La Revedere. Similarly, one could assume that it the Spanish-Balok of the Invidians is canon, and that it is their specific dialect of Balok, even though it makes no real-world sense. I would stick to core Balok phrases, but pepper it with Spanish like some awful bastardized combination of Romanian and Spanish.

Fortunately, the Italian that it Borcans pepper their Balok with isn't too far, linguistically, from Spanish. Senor and Signor for instance, being practically the same word but spelled differently, and Si being shared by both tongues.


I'd say so, yeah. You cant give each domain too much of a tilt towards it's real life counterparts because ultimately it's just a base, they aren't the same culture, they just have parts of different cultures blended together.

Pretty much. Dementlieu is like, 100% French-inspired for instance, but places like Mordent are supposed to be inspired by the English Countryside, thus why their rulers are a french-derived first name, and a classic, old-english surname. Houses like the House of Huntington would come from Mordent, and their head-of-household might be named Charles Huntington. .. Which is actually a French-derived name that is commonly used as an English name, but overlaps the cultures well enough not to clash too hard. The Mordentish pretty much speak Low Mordentish nationwide, which is like old Anglo-English, but their Nobles will speak the refined straight-up French that the Dementlieuse do. Whereas the Dementlieuse commoners (if I read the Gazzetter correctly) will speak Low Mordentish at home, with family as commoners and use High Mordentish in public as a more culturally appropriate, if at times overly complex tongue -- Because the Nobles do it, and the Commoners want to imitate the Noble fashions. So a well-educated Commoner would speak High Mordentish in public to seem respectable. .. But then dip into dirty Anglo speak at home with family, I guess akin to wearing your underwear around the house. They won't judge you. (Too harshly.)

Then you get to places like Richemulot which are again, French-speaking, but their names and nomenclature mix Dutch and French names. So you end up with names like Jacques van der Linde, instead of Jean de la Linde or whatever you want to say. Somewhere, belief has to be suspended in such a way that it you can accept that it random bits of languages are being superimposed into the national analog languages to give it a cultural flair similar to their real-life counterparts but not 1:1.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 03:21:52 AM by BraveSirRobin »