On the ECL System

[Kamfrenchie]

To me the ecl as it exists now just makes it more painful to progress and restrict your avenues. Sure there is RP xp but you will be forced to leave vallaki sooner.

If the concern is that the tiefling aasimars should be rare, shouldnt itbe addressed by the application process, rather than giving everyone huge xp penalty ?

I'd say there is nothing wrong with leaving Vallaki sooner, as there are more people, on average, currently. At least from my observations for U.S. timezones.  I'd like to see some of the less visited zones rebalanced for a mid level character to go to adventure/RP at, like Wochter territory, but that's a topic for a different thread.

I'd argue against the idea of a quota for various applications, whether it be ECL races, MPCs, or PrCs, and if they exist behind the curtain, I'd say get rid of them. If the player has to RP for their desired role, being told no because of some number capacity being met seems wrong.

I've not played an ECL race  yet, so I can't really suggest any idea with first hand experience. If there isn't already, I'd make certain for the ECL races not gated with an application are made clear the experience can be unpleasantly slow for newer players.  The idea of having the templates for the models, but not the stats has merit, but the team likes to stick with PnP on such things, I believe.

Well sure, in itself leaving Vallaki is not wrong, but it's one of the primary hub, and a main one for criminal activity. There is Port, but Port RP is different. So if your RP is centered around barovia, you'll just get less xp earlier.

[Kaninchen]

Then the argument to me becomes an issue of the exp cap at 14 for that side of the wall, and less about it being an ECL issue. Buuuut, again a topic that has been hashed out before, in other threads. Probably.

[Gmno]

Enchanting and ECL is harsh.

[Comet]

I don't have any grand statement, but having tried ECL races twice now, it really sucks.
Especially if you pick one that give high OCR. Can't be in Vallaki? Can't be in the Outskirts during daytime? There goes half of your potential RP XP at low levels. You either get dragged along on something or you stagnate.

[HopeIsTheCarrot]

Enchanting and ECL is harsh.

This is the biggest issue with ECL classes for me. Enchanting is a lengthy enough process without the ECL. If ECLs are going to be counted as being 1-2 levels higher for everything else, then they should be able to start enchanting at level 12/13 rather than level 14.

[Asous]

Enchanting and ECL is harsh.

This is the biggest issue with ECL classes for me. Enchanting is a lengthy enough process without the ECL. If ECLs are going to be counted as being 1-2 levels higher for everything else, then they should be able to start enchanting at level 12/13 rather than level 14.

It's really not that bad, I've enchanted once and intend to do so two more times. Getting to a high level isn't a race either.

I don't have any grand statement, but having tried ECL races twice now, it really sucks.
Especially if you pick one that give high OCR. Can't be in Vallaki? Can't be in the Outskirts during daytime? There goes half of your potential RP XP at low levels. You either get dragged along on something or you stagnate.

The whole reason of being an outcast is to be... just that, an outcast. People shouldn't be applying for races for the stats.

[tylernwn]

I play an Aasimar (ECL +2) and have got him to level 8. I would agree that playing ECL characters is tough because you have to take on a server that is already renowned for its difficulty, and multiply that difficulty by having to do content under levelled. In my opinion this is the root cause of player's frustrations, and not the extra xp required to get new levels.

Now in general ECL classes are tough. However I wouldnt change ECL too much, except for perhaps making characters not count as +x levels higher for the purpose of getting xp from enemies. Taking longer to get levels doesnt seem bad at all, if you are doing it versus at level content. However having to fight things +x levels higher than you to get xp certainly makes everything much more painful, and is in my opinion the root cause of player's frustrations. 

Now in the case of Aasimar in particular, I would REALLY like to see them brought down to ECL +1 like in the literature. After playing this far, I have a little rant. The extra feat and skillpoints they get doesn't feel like it justifies the ECL +1, and I personally would opt out of it for ECL -1 if I could. The second ECL feels like overkill.

[Kamfrenchie]

I would agree. A possibility to play a tieflinfg or aasimar without the stat buff and eclwould be much better

[Asous]

I would agree. A possibility to play a tieflinfg or aasimar without the stat buff and eclwould be much better

Playing such a "unique" race is supposed to have a drawback, given they can be considered quite powerful and direct upgrades to base races if applied to your class correctly.

This is coming from someone who has played Tiefling since the end of February, the negatives aren't even that bad. My experience has been quite pleasant.

Lowering certain races ECL levels to be in line with PnP sounds perfect; but again, it honestly doesn't change that much with regards to your progression.

Arguably, there's nothing wrong with the system as is.

[Kaninchen]

Playing such a "unique" race is supposed to have a drawback, given they can be considered quite powerful and direct upgrades to base races if applied to your class correctly.

The drawback to playing the race, is the higher OCR that comes with it, in my opinion, and not the hindrance of what it does to exp gains.

[EO]

Playing such a "unique" race is supposed to have a drawback, given they can be considered quite powerful and direct upgrades to base races if applied to your class correctly.

The drawback to playing the race, is the higher OCR that comes with it, in my opinion, and not the hindrance of what it does to exp gains.

ECL and OCR do not address the same issues; take the Aasimar as an example, it doesn't have much of an OCR, about as much as an elf really. ECL addresses the fact that these templates are objectively more powerful than the base races, whereas OCR addresses the xenophobia aspect.

Anyway, as has been stated multiple times in the past we do not plan to remove or overhaul the ECL system. Perhaps one day we'll be able to bring Tiefling/Aasimar ECL to 1 if we can fix the few issues with the template (ie: bonus feat, bonus skill points).