Author Topic: The status of Women  (Read 19051 times)

Nefensis

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The status of Women
« on: January 03, 2007, 09:29:40 PM »
Barovian women knows their places and men dirige society and bring back the food at home while the women takes care of the children. Now what is the status of noble women? Freedom and a voice during a conversation? What about the guards, can barovian women or even outlander women becomes guards? Would captain Dagris the cruel even hire them?

comment.

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Negnar

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 09:31:33 PM »
Well Siv was a guard.

Way i always viewed the setting is very male dominated, AKA women being seen as second. Granted its hard for many to RP this as most outlander women want equal rights and all that hehe

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2007, 03:16:17 AM »
The framework of the city and the module doesn't really allow for such an attitude to have dominance. Outlanders arrive, and before anyone takes notice they have some of the most powerful positions in the city. It's hard to be mysgonistic when the woman you are dealing with could have you roasted over an open fire.

I'd imagine the Guard would have more women if there were more women with the right attitude to carry out the role. It's rare to see a human female character with ugly mental or physical traits.

Nefensis

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2007, 08:28:33 AM »
Marinah..?  :lol:

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Heretic

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2007, 11:01:09 AM »
There's some woman in the guard now, they are doing a superb job. However, I would expect DM's to showcase -extreme- sexism with the male NPC guards, something I've yet to see.

This is a highly regressive society in Barovia, a female guard would get as much flak as the first woman ever becoming doctor, or the first one attending University. I expect them to be pushed down and humiliated on the job, snide comments to be made, etc.


Rill

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2007, 11:15:31 AM »
Yeah. Sexism and racism is highly important, I feel, in building a setting. Although the racism is covered by general hatred towards outlanders. I guess racism in a fantasy setting is less provident due to the greater threat of specism, where Dwarves and Halflings, Elves and Orcs, pose greater threats to Mankind than does one specter of Mankind unto the other.

Eh. I dunno, I just agree with Eraldur. More sexism. It reflects the society. After all, the counts and lords and whatnot are mainly men. The mayors and the shopmen should be mainly men.

(Well. Okay. There's a female blacksmith with a female blacksmith tutor...) But it'd add to the mood and the helpless feeling of unwaranted hatred.
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Arlette

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2007, 11:22:22 AM »
Barovia isn't a particularly sexist society. Poor Barovians don't have traditional nuclear family situations where the man goes out and works and the woman stays at home with the children. Every member of the family works, including any child who's capable of doing so. You have to remember that even in the real world, nuclear familiies only really came along after the industrial revolution. Before that, businesses were cottage industries and whole families would labour together at their particular trade. For the poor, life is hard work period. Men don't dominate women -- consider them equally oppressed and overworked ;).

As for nobility, keep in mind that there are no schools in Barovia, meaning that unless the children are sent abroad to study, they are educated a little at home and then likely married or brought into the family business, if there is one. Also, keep in mind that nobles don't have much in Barovia's current state. Almost all have lost their land to Strahd. Outside of towns, the best they can hope for is to be able to manage their former ancestral lands. However, these days few boyars, or landholders, are drawn from the old noble familiies. Inside towns, they cling to what is left of their family fortunes, perhaps trying to augment that with mercantile businesses and the like. They are a decaying group, clinging to the former power of their ancestors. Basically, nobles will be more concerned with holding on to what they have and augmenting it, than they would rigidly enforcing sexual roles among their children.

Women have held positions of power in Barovia. One of the major cities in Barovia, Teufeldorf, is run by a woman. Rebeka Ditrau, Captain of the Guard, rules in the place of a burgomaster. So she not only attained a high rank in a military organization, she has also been given command of a town. The Burgomaster of the Villlage of Barovia, Vanda Atanasius, is female. Females can hold prominent positions in the clergy. The Cult of the Morninglord has a highly respected priestess in Krezk named Elizabeta Pirosska. Females hold prominent positions in some of the secret societies in Barovia as well.

Basically, I guess I'm saying don't let a late 19th/early 20th century view of female roles cloud the possibilities for female characters in this setting. While there may be sexist individuals, there is no overriding rigid code in place for female peasants and nobles, aside from the same rigid limitations that affect the males as well. ;)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 12:04:15 PM by Arlette »

Rill

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 11:28:12 AM »
I stand corrected.
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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 11:35:09 AM »
It may be regressive in many aspects, but that doesn't necissarily mean it also holds to a view that women are inferior, unless it is actually documented as to being so. Many early societies were matrilineal in their workings, including Europe, India, China, Egypt, ect...  Women may have been barred from certain positions that were just considered impracticle for them to take up, but that doesn't mean there was a society wide idea of inferioty on their part. In many cases they simply took up other trades and held power in different ways. You don't want to insult someone with more power and money no matter what the situation is.

Of course, if you are a 5'0 100 pound woman of the middle class who has signed up to be a guard, you are probably going to get a lot of crap, just as a 5'0 100 man would.


I just find it a little too stereotypical to take up the attitude, really. Early society does not equal systematic mysogyny.

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 11:41:57 AM »

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2007, 11:42:20 AM »
Thanks for posting that Arlette.  I wasn't too clear on the role and dynamics between men and women myself.  Reading it did remind me of a woman Burgomaster who Strahd found waiting outside of the Castle in Elrod's novel.  



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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 11:43:08 AM »
And then again, a woman with 16+ in str will not be small anyway, this goes for men to... 16 str and 16 con makes for a very large person, or at least very very muscular.. So no petite warrior females....! :lol:

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Arlette

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 12:17:24 PM »
Even a small, fairly physically unimposing person can attain a high military rank. Brute force is all well and good, but so is strategy, counterintelligence, and political savvy. Napolean was a physically small man but talented in other areas. The strongest person most adept at wielding a weapon is good as a foot soldier, but if they don't have the brains to go with the brawn, they're not much use at the higher ranks.

JironGhrad

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2007, 02:25:01 PM »
Napoleon was also sick frequently but his Cha must have been out the roof

Nefensis

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2007, 04:26:10 PM »
Hey for once we didnt refer to hitler, anyways i also remember that the Burgomeister of the village is a woman, met her once

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2007, 05:08:18 PM »
Don't forget about Strahd's cousin and right-hand enforcer, Talena von Zarovich.  :twisted:

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2007, 05:09:18 PM »
Not to mention his other relative..Lyssa ;)

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2007, 05:11:24 PM »
Not to mention his other relative..Lyssa ;)
She's not much in charge of anything though  :lol:

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Nefensis

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2007, 05:36:45 PM »
Talena.. [shudders] freaking Kukri out right off, good thing i was gonna propose to make her a dress ^.^

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Senthe1980

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2007, 11:54:53 AM »
It wasn't until Christainity took hold that the idea of women being infeior to men took hold as well. With only a God and no Goddess, men were seen as the only ones who were pure. Women were evil by nature, thus a man had to lead her to do good.. often with a heavy hand. Once the Church took the reigns, anything that gave a woman power was quickly stamped out.

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2007, 02:56:45 PM »
It wasn't until Christainity took hold that the idea of women being infeior to men took hold as well. With only a God and no Goddess, men were seen as the only ones who were pure. Women were evil by nature, thus a man had to lead her to do good.. often with a heavy hand. Once the Church took the reigns, anything that gave a woman power was quickly stamped out.

 :roll:

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2007, 03:07:00 PM »
actually much of that predates christianity, but as it's already been established, much of the chauvinist beliefs came about during the Victorian era (late 1800s)

and please don't use these forums as a means to bash a real-world religion. this is not the place for that...take it somewhere else, please

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Senthe1980

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2007, 06:51:43 PM »


 please don't use these forums as a means to bash a real-world religion. this is not the place for that...take it somewhere else, please
Quote

I'm sorry if it sounded that way. That wasn't my intention. I was in lecture mode.

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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2007, 04:36:19 AM »
Eyms Mo'vs exploits the oppression of women.  She is educated in a monastery from a society that typically is not very appreciative of women outside of the domestic roles.  Her training in a monastery was her escape from all that, although the reason for heading into a monastery was because her family could not afford to keep her.  She has claimed that a guard could not be harmed by her fatally because she is only a mothering woman.  However, to cover this up, she needs to bathe in the water everyday to clean the blood from her bare feet and hands.  Also, keep her weapon clean, which serves more than a domestic role, but seems ornamental to someone not acquainted with exotic blades.  If the guards searched her pack, and they found knuckles, beetle shells, mandibles and vistani brews, she might be in for a branding with a hot metal poker (something out of the museum of torture).  As the rights are unequal, or equal (depending on whom you ask on the forum), the plea that she is not a fatal, unlike the poor boxer that was charged as a murderer for beating someone with his fists in self-defense, and sentenced as a murderer, fists are not a fatal weapon in most brawls.  If the undead fall so easily to her fists, is it because she is a fist-fighter, or because she is holy, like Joan of Arc with holy fists and a halo wrapping round her noggin.
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Re: The status of Women
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2007, 09:51:32 AM »
I bumped this after reading a character bio of a Barovian woman.   :)

Arlette wrote earlier in this thread:

"Barovia isn't a particularly sexist society. Poor Barovians don't have traditional nuclear family situations where the man goes out and works and the woman stays at home with the children. Every member of the family works, including any child who's capable of doing so. You have to remember that even in the real world, nuclear familiies only really came along after the industrial revolution. Before that, businesses were cottage industries and whole families would labour together at their particular trade. For the poor, life is hard work period. Men don't dominate women -- consider them equally oppressed and overworked .

As for nobility, keep in mind that there are no schools in Barovia, meaning that unless the children are sent abroad to study, they are educated a little at home and then likely married or brought into the family business, if there is one. Also, keep in mind that nobles don't have much in Barovia's current state. Almost all have lost their land to Strahd. Outside of towns, the best they can hope for is to be able to manage their former ancestral lands. However, these days few boyars, or landholders, are drawn from the old noble familiies. Inside towns, they cling to what is left of their family fortunes, perhaps trying to augment that with mercantile businesses and the like. They are a decaying group, clinging to the former power of their ancestors. Basically, nobles will be more concerned with holding on to what they have and augmenting it, than they would rigidly enforcing sexual roles among their children.

Women have held positions of power in Barovia. One of the major cities in Barovia, Teufeldorf, is run by a woman. Rebeka Ditrau, Captain of the Guard, rules in the place of a burgomaster. So she not only attained a high rank in a military organization, she has also been given command of a town. The Burgomaster of the Villlage of Barovia, Vanda Atanasius, is female. Females can hold prominent positions in the clergy. The Cult of the Morninglord has a highly respected priestess in Krezk named Elizabeta Pirosska. Females hold prominent positions in some of the secret societies in Barovia as well.

Basically, I guess I'm saying don't let a late 19th/early 20th century view of female roles cloud the possibilities for female characters in this setting. While there may be sexist individuals, there is no overriding rigid code in place for female peasants and nobles, aside from the same rigid limitations that affect the males as well."