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Author Topic: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working  (Read 2377 times)

chuuch1

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Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« on: April 14, 2019, 05:32:10 PM »
I just tried to crowbar a chest and the take 20 did not work, was not in combat.  I am using the oldschool crowbar that you cannot equip, just have to use the item, so not sure if that action counts as combat.

Chest was in Ivlis Marsh - Inside Burrow

chuuch1

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 05:41:28 PM »
Or I could be mistaken and the change is for doors only and not chests?

EO

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 05:58:24 PM »
Or I could be mistaken and the change is for doors only and not chests?

Only for doors. Since bashing chests has an actual risk (losing items), Take 20 is not possible.

Quartermaster

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2019, 09:15:17 AM »
Having used an actual crowbar in home renovation/demolition, I can say that the reality of a crowbar on something like chest would leave little to no chance of breaking what is inside it. Since the crowbar is designed to pry- through leverage- bashing and breaking is very remote. The current crowbar on a chest system seems somewhat detrimental to use. I have had critical fails which broke inside objects on rolls from 1-8. I understand perfectly that the goal is to have a full party go everywhere and for that party to contain a rogue who has lock picking skills. But the reality of the game is also this, sometimes partying up just isn't feasible. Sometimes there isn't enough rogue characters of equivocal level for each party that has formed that a character actually knows- without resorting to the other server cultures of sending shouts- "hey we need a level 5 rogue with a 17 in lock pick". I think there can be some compromise on the crowbar/chest system, and still keep much of the goal of "pushing toward" a party up mentality.

1: I think the crowbar should only break items inside a chest on a roll of 1 or 2.
2: and this has happened to me in real life albeit without the dice rolls, on a roll of 3-6 a damage on the user roll should take place. a roll of 3, 1d8. roll of 4 1d6, roll of 5, 1d4, and roll of 6 1d2+1. a nice message with the damage could take place, a " you just sliced open your hand"- or "you just whacked yourself in the head hard" cuts from use could have a wounding effect for a few minutes, hits in the head could cause confusion or daze for a few.
3: Crowbars should become apart of the smithing craft.
4: a copper crowbar could then lower the fail chance by 1, bronze by 2, iron, by 3, steel by 4.
5 the weight of the crowbar is 3 times what a normal one actually weighs. I have a 4 foot destruction bar made of tempered steel that only weighs 4 pounds. the in game one is 13 pounds.

thanks for reading.


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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 09:29:21 AM »
Crowbars are an alternative to rogues that comes with risk. We have no plans to change them since they work as intended. Want to open a chest safely? Find a character with enough open lock or invest in it yourself.

Thundron

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 09:32:00 AM »
Siding The topic should Power attack bonus to added forces rolls to open stuff. Perhaps not whole +5 +10 but like +2 +5. Should not work with crowbar as using it is not a strike.

Hypatia

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2019, 12:21:59 PM »
if power attack can be used, I’d think it probably should increase the chance of item breakage in equal measure as the feat represents giving up accuracy for blind power.

Personally I like as little job-creep as possible for party dynamics. If there’s a need, people will usually fill it so they can have characters who are sought after by others. The harder or riskier it is to get those treasures, the more likely you are to find someon with lockpicking skills I bet.

Thundron

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2019, 09:58:18 PM »
if power attack can be used, I’d think it probably should increase the chance of item breakage in equal measure as the feat represents giving up accuracy for blind power.

Personally I like as little job-creep as possible for party dynamics. If there’s a need, people will usually fill it so they can have characters who are sought after by others. The harder or riskier it is to get those treasures, the more likely you are to find someon with lockpicking skills I bet.

good idea! *thump up*

Hatsune

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2019, 11:05:38 PM »
Crowbars are already extremely effective, especially with a good strength and barbarian levels. I believe a level 4 barbarian can open the most difficult chests on the server, with a better chance to open them then break something.

They do not need buffed.
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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2019, 06:09:18 PM »

5 the weight of the crowbar is 3 times what a normal one actually weighs. I have a 4 foot destruction bar made of tempered steel that only weighs 4 pounds. the in game one is 13 pounds.

While I am not in favor of in any way buffing the crowbar’s effectiveness, I would also like to see a reduction in the weight of the crowbar. Seems rather high to me.

Thundron

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2019, 08:05:59 AM »

5 the weight of the crowbar is 3 times what a normal one actually weighs. I have a 4 foot destruction bar made of tempered steel that only weighs 4 pounds. the in game one is 13 pounds.

While I am not in favor of in any way buffing the crowbar’s effectiveness, I would also like to see a reduction in the weight of the crowbar. Seems rather high to me.
Normal weight would allow weaker people to carry one around to borrow it to stronger ones If they dont have own.

Jeebs

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2019, 01:49:42 PM »
The crowbar's weight is exactly the reason why I've never carried one around and usually just resorted to bashing doors open if I ever needed to. While I understand the reason for how they work, I certainly wouldn't mind a weight reduction. It definitely make them less of a huge inconvenience to carry one.

Edward

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2019, 01:51:45 PM »
The crowbar in game seems pretty huge, but yes, it does weigh quite a bit.

Dud_Goose

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2019, 01:53:49 PM »
I did a quick google search and the most common weight for crowbars returned as 12 lb.  I believe the ones here are 16?  Not completely unreasonable, especially if they are crude models and heavy-duty.
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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2019, 02:10:21 PM »
The crowbars in the server are made of iron, so they should be heavy. Thumbs up to the dev's.

Iridni Ren

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2019, 04:21:00 PM »
The crowbar weight does not seem drastically out of line.

I did like the idea of damaging the person using it rather than the item, as that seems more realistic. If the container doesn't open (maintains its integrity), it makes no sense that the item inside is broken by the attempt. It also counters physical laws that being weaker (thereby exerting less force) increases the chance of damaging something in a container :)

To make it more immersive/realistic, the attempt could be made based on strength. Every time there is a failure, however, a Dex check is made of some sort. And Dex failure results in damage to the wielder.

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Re: Take 20 on crowbaring chests not working
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2019, 07:06:44 PM »
It’s not about realism.  It’s entirely about open lock being the safest way to retrieve items in chess.  Bashing your way in doesn’t require you to take a skill or acquire gear aside from a crowbar, but you risk your loot.  That’s the trade off.