Author Topic: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing  (Read 439 times)

Hypatia

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Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« on: March 14, 2019, 02:19:51 AM »
So ive been puzzling because I like to play a dedicated healer, but the healing score doesn't really do anything useful on Ravenloft outside of meeting some low requirements. The healing kits are kind of nice, but a potion works better, and you can't even make better potions with a high healing score. Ive noticed we have skills to increase your AC and stuff like that so......

Why not either just include, or make a PrC that adds +1 per cure spells level for each 5 ranks you have in the heal skill? It makes perfect sense, and its not a super boost really, but would let me shine above normal clerics with my Healer when it comes to healing.

For example with a 20 healing score, you're Cure Light Wounds spells would heal back an additional +4hp of damage, while moderate would gain +8, followed by +12 for serious and +16 for criticle.

Just a thought.

t0rchic

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 03:42:53 AM »
The reason Heal kinda sucks for a healer is because it's not meant to be good for you. Magic is better than mundane. That's how any mid-high fantasy setting works. Plus you have to rest after bandaging which you can only do once every 2 ingame hours, and it removes all your buffs and lures enemies to you when you do it.

But that doesn't mean it's useless! It's just not for you. If you're not a caster and you're out on your lonesome at a high level, which would you rather use? A cheap healer's kit on yourself to get back 100 of your 150 max hp, or 15 CLW potions? Plus even though the locals are kind of chill about healing magic they'd still much rather you use the mundane methods. They don't trust it, they just won't murder you for using it in front of them. So Heal serves a bit RP purpose if you meet any Barovia natives who need healing. They might not want you to touch them with your glowy hands.

So I offer you this alternative:

Cleric of Healing Domain

Invest heavily into Wis and Cha

With 16 cha (~20 with eagle's, ~22 with empowered eagle's) this gives your entire party 12-24 hp over a few rounds depending on your buff roll. It requires 8 ranks in Heal so you'll still feel like you're getting something out of the skill (because you are).
https://nwnravenloft.fandom.com/wiki/Sacred_Healing

This'll give less health overall but it's instant and easily spammable.
https://nwnravenloft.fandom.com/wiki/Sacred_Purification

Take the last feat in the chain just to do the intended dedicated healer build. I promise it's strong. All your cure spells (which are empowered by your Healing Domain) are automatically maximized with this buff up.
https://nwnravenloft.fandom.com/wiki/Sacred_Boost
By the time you have this you'll be throwing around Cure Moderate and Serious Wounds like they're candy. Level 9 minimum to get the 12 Heal ranks for the feat. That means your Cure Serious is doing a guaranteed 49 points of single-target healing (just a bit off fully buffed Lay on Hands at that level, and more than once per day) and you've probably got your Fast Healing ticking away at the whole party at the same time.

Take Extra Turning to do it more. Not like you're gonna be turning much of anything on this server. Everything that's actually a threat and can still be turned is almost impossible to do it to and it just draws aggro onto you, which I doubt you want if you're a dedicated healer.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:47:17 AM by t0rchic »

Nemesis 24

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 04:08:59 AM »
Actually, you can get your full hp back from resting quite easily.  Its more than just the bandages.  You can even manage it without bandages.  The trick to it is-
Eat something
Use a bedroll
Remove armour.

A medical kit use is icing on the cake.  Beyond that, most of the skills used in game have far reaching effects beyond simply mechanical.  The majority of DM events can and will make use of skills.  A person with a heal skill, for example, is actually vital for many kinds of investigation, as I can myself attest (mostly because I don't have it, and thus am useless, I generally have to work with someone else who can cover that gap).

There are mechanical benefits to the skill, but beyond that, most skills are very much looked for in DM events.  Your character cannot claim to be a master healer, doctor and surgeon even 'in character' (unless they were deluded) unless they have the skill numbers to back it up, because otherwise that's just cheesing, which is against the rules.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 04:22:38 AM by Nemesis 24 »

SardineTheAncestor

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 04:27:51 AM »
Suggestion-wise I don't think this is actually a bad idea, but it'd probably be a bit crazy with how fast HP bars go up and down already. Nem makes a good point in that a DM event may have a requirement for a high Heal skill, and it would be cool if there was an alternate build option too.

Outside of suggestions for addition to the module, I agree with t0rchic, it is true that Turn charges are best spent on other skills. I think we begin with Extra Turning as clerics, but maybe I picked it at level 1. It's either that or Combat Casting, I ended up with both, one way or another. That said, excess skillpoints for a healer can find a home in Concentration, once you meet your Heal requirement. A healing cleric is a faith healer and a miracle maker. Sometimes a clutch heal saves a life and it's all thanks to your good timing and your Concentration score keeping that spell from fizzling. Meanwhile, these feats keep your party healthy when missteps occur, and then you get to save your spell slots for when it matters.

Healing in combat is weird, given whenever people are talking, they hide their health from you, but it is satisfying to know you are making a difference when you do. If it came together for me, it will come together for you. There is more I have to do to fix my own build, but trust me, you will stand out as a healing cleric by merit of your roleplay's content alone, including when combat begins and people rely on you to save them after half their HP disappears unexpectedly. Trust me on this, if what you want to be is a life saver and relief provider, you can set out to do that, and you will excel at it.

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 04:49:21 AM »
As someone who plays a healer myself, I am going to put it out there that not everyone appreciates the fast healing power of a spell. With heavy RP preferences, a lot of people prefer to RP out lingering consequences of their injuries, and making conclusions that they might be too deep or too messed up to be cured by magic alone. Besides the Barovians who prefer you didn't use it on them at all, having the skill will help you have the RP needed to treat those players as well. Healing helps with healing kits, sure, but you can also delve deeper and contribute to a narrative with more impact than "Poof, you're healed, get up fam." Because at that point, anyone can cast magic to heal, but a true healer would be able to heal our need for Rp.

Hypatia

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 06:30:50 AM »
Ya there’s lots of cool options for healers on here and I have no problems feeling useful or in demand and even if there were no uses I’d max healing anyway for RP alone... But BUT in the spirit of having PrCs for the many varied paths characters like to take... including healers; here is my dream PrC for Santa’s wishlist.

Studied Healer

A studied healer is both doctor and cleric who explores ways to combine her advanced education in mundane healing craft with her ability to channel divine heailng in unique and effective ways. She brings a surgical and precise approach to healing wounds, allowing her to get a stronger result from each cure spell cast.  However the long, laborious study of these techniques leaves her little time for combat training and so she is generally ill suited for front line combat like other clerics and thrives as a support healer keeping the warriors on their feet.

Preq: 8 ranks in heal, divine spell casting, skill focus: Heal
HP: d6
BA: low
Saves: Will

Level 1: Studied Healing: add +1 hp per 10 ranks to cure spells, per spell level
Level 2: Field Surgeon: using medikits is twice as fast, adds "Sanctuary" effect (as per spell) to those revived this way.
Level 3: Healing Thrust: +1 per round of additional fast healing on regeneration spells.
Level 4: Inspired Healing: Casting cure spells adds the "aid" effect to recipient of spell for 1 round + caster's charisma modifier.
Level 4: Healer’s intuition: PCs reduced to 1/4 HP glow to the healer’s eyes, helping her spot where she’s needed most
Level 5: Divine Physician: cure spells benifit from +1 for ever 5 ranks in healing per spell level and +2 additional HP per round added to regeneration spells.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 07:27:48 PM by Hypatia »

Iridni Ren

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 09:02:36 AM »
I understand (I think) your basic criticism: that the healing skill doesn't complement divine healing. When I first built my main, this was frustrating to me as well, as I intended her to serve as a healer against most foes (the exception being undead). Given her limited skill points, however, I learned almost immediately that she couldn't afford spending those points on a skill that her spells made largely superfluous. The heal skill does have its uses on this server, but much more for RP and soloing rogues than for a cleric.

Regarding your PrC, I can't see anyone taking it as written because the PC gives up too much for too little.

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zDark Shadowz

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 11:55:45 AM »
Lvl 4 ability can't really be done in NWN as far as I'm aware (VFX are not player-specific) and is redundant when pressing the Tab button gives you the rough assessment for percentile HP remaining at all health stages, not just when they're near death / 1/4 or less HP remaining.
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Hypatia

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 07:07:44 PM »
I guess its not so much a criticism, because really I find the systems here to be top-notice and have no complaint at all. I just really like to have healer based PrCs for flavor. Which really, that's why we have any PrCs at all. So you can hyper-focus on a nitch and set your PC apart from others. I don't think its problematic that the healing skill doesn't factor into cure spells, however just like the PrC "Swashbuckler" can add INT to his AC, a PrC that finds a way to combine mundane healing to empower divine healing has merit as much as any other PrC that does similar things with combining skills, abilities and combat in unusual ways.

As for people playing a PrC like that, you'd be surprised. On Myths of Atalan you literally had to be a pacifist to play Lifesworn, but there were a few of us running around, and even if rare, they still added to the flavor of the server. Not only did they have all the drawbacks I listed above, but they couldn't even wear armor. However one of the benefits they got was a persistent "aura" of Sanctuary, so they rarely got targeted by monsters. With the class I outlined, its true a lot of people wouldn't want to give up combat ability, but for those willing, isn't it natural they should get a little more bang out of their healing spells as they sacrifice all other combat training to do just that. And also, doesn't it make sense that a person skilled in both divine and mundane healing could find ways to use those healing spells in a more efficient manner that a divine healer who just sprays positive energy at wounds might not have ever given thought to? I think taking on +5 for CLW all the way to an extra +25 on CCW  if you've got 25 ranks in heal is a solid enough perk to entice a few people who like playing healers to take a PrC like that. I certainly would. But if you'd rather be able to fight and still be an above average healer with the Healing domain with all the associated feats that make you rock, you certainly can by not taking the PrC. It makes sense that the more you focus and sacrifice on healing, the better you'll be at it. Just like how the guys who take 22 dex and fill up tumble and shield parry can get sick AC.

Also, no reason you couldn't apply all this stuff to harm spells too to make a more valid evil blasting cleric who can deal a lot of damage and heal his undead minions better.

I edited the level 4 ability above too;

Level 4: Inspired Healing: Casting cure spells adds the "aid" effect to recipient of spell for 1 round + caster's charisma modifier.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 07:42:29 PM by Hypatia »

EO

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 08:46:08 PM »
Just to clarify, there are no plans right now to add homebrew prestige classes. The focus has been on adding Ravenloft PrCs that can be mechanically implemented in NwN. There are already many feats for healer type clerics as others have mentioned.

herkles

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 09:19:43 PM »
Just to clarify, there are no plans right now to add homebrew prestige classes. The focus has been on adding Ravenloft PrCs that can be mechanically implemented in NwN. There are already many feats for healer type clerics as others have mentioned.

In regards to PRCs, I am curious what your thoughts are on say the Learned Physician as a healing type of PRC?

EO

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 08:33:15 PM »
Just to clarify, there are no plans right now to add homebrew prestige classes. The focus has been on adding Ravenloft PrCs that can be mechanically implemented in NwN. There are already many feats for healer type clerics as others have mentioned.

In regards to PRCs, I am curious what your thoughts are on say the Learned Physician as a healing type of PRC?

It's a fairly useless and bland PrC; it doesn't do anything better than a regular cleric would.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 09:10:33 PM »
Just to clarify, there are no plans right now to add homebrew prestige classes. The focus has been on adding Ravenloft PrCs that can be mechanically implemented in NwN. There are already many feats for healer type clerics as others have mentioned.

In regards to PRCs, I am curious what your thoughts are on say the Learned Physician as a healing type of PRC?

It's a fairly useless and bland PrC; it doesn't do anything better than a regular cleric would.

If applied to a Wizard, it would allow Wizards to take healing abilities and give an excuse for someone to pursue becoming a Docteur at the Université de Dementlieu properly. I think the class sounded pretty cool. Reminded me of House.

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Re: Healing Skill + Divine Healing = Better Healing
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 09:44:52 PM »
What book is it in? (Legacy of the Blood, p93, thanks herkles)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 09:53:47 PM by aprogressivist »
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