Question on Paladin rule change

[APorg]

So the new rules on Paladin multi-classing reads:

- Monks cannot multiclass with other base classes. Paladins who multiclass with other base classes will no longer be able to progress as paladins and will lose all paladin abilities. However, both classes can multiclass to prestige classes.

- Classes must be no more than 10 levels apart when multiclassing.

This is a fringe scenario, but what happens if a Paladin multi-classes or Falls early enough that this might interact with the 10 levels apart rule?

e.g. let's say I'm a level 3 Paladin. I start multi-classing as a Fighter (maybe because I Fell in record time or something) so I can't take Paladin levels anymore. I get to Paladin 3/Fighter 13. Normally it would be illegal for me to take Paladin 3/Fighter 14 by the 10 level apart rule. So I can't progress as Fighter or as Paladin. Am I then forced to take a 3rd class? (e.g. Paladin/Fighter/Barb or whatever?) Or will Fallen Paladin levels effectively not count towards the 10 levels apart rule?

[Iridni Ren]

I don't have a strong feeling about this because it does seem as it would be such a rare occurrence as to be able to decide on a case-by-case basis. But I would prefer an exception not be made to the max 10 rule.

If a paladin falls at 3rd level, she can apply for a character remake, the PC can be shelved, or she can live with the consequences. That's not a lot of investment yet in the PC.

[APorg]

Right, I don't really have any preference one way or another, just pointing out a weird fringe scenario.

[EO]

It follows the standard multiclassing rules. The main difference is we allow them to multiclass whereas before they couldn’t at all.

[Little Lotte]

In order for a paladin to multiclass, do you have to start off as one or can you say...start as a fighter and then multiclass into paladin denoting a change in values and ideals?

[Daboomer]

I am pretty sure you can just multiclass One if it falls? Did i misunderstand?

[Iridni Ren]

at the cost of all their paladin abilities and spellcasting

Not sure why you would.

[Tycat]

paladins can multi-class now? Does this mean that if they do, they lose their paladin abilities and fall?

[FinalHeaven]

In the very first post is says that a Paladin can multiclass with other base classes but won't be able to continue progressing as paladins and lose all paladin abilities.

[EO]

Since you can’t progress as a paladin if you’ve multiclassed you won’t be able to level from another class to paladin. Otherwise all multiclass rules apply normally so in the scenario above you would need to pick a third class.

[Tycat]

Since you can’t progress as a paladin if you’ve multiclassed you won’t be able to level from another class to paladin. Otherwise all multiclass rules apply normally so in the scenario above you would need to pick a third class.

So is this going to be something that is locked behind a widget, sort of like making a Drow, Runt, or Caliban character, or applying for a subrace? Where you need someone from the CC/DMs to hit you with the okay stick and you are enabled for multiclassing? If not, I can forsee an issue here, where a new player comes in and starts to multiclass their paladin only to find out it backfired (because they weren't savvy to the rules yet).

[Arawn]

People do need to read the rules. We tell them to read the rules; we make the rules easily available; they still don’t read them. Every other day we get someone who says “wait I didn’t know muling wasn’t allowed.” At a certain point, if you don’t read what is both a simple and clear rule AND directly relevant to the new character you’ve just made, that’s on you.

And despite this, even if you do mess up, DMs and remake apps are here to help.

[zDark Shadowz]

If they have feats such as divine might / shield and various turning abilities, that become disabled when the paladin falls, would they recover the ability to use them again by multiclassing into a different divine class (cleric/blackguard)?

[EO]

If they have feats such as divine might / shield and various turning abilities, that become disabled when the paladin falls, would they recover the ability to use them again by multiclassing into a different divine class (cleric/blackguard)?

Good question. If another class gives Turn Undead then you could use feats that require Turn Undead again but paladin levels wouldn’t count towards it. Obviously this doesn’t apply to feats that require you to be a paladin (ie: Shield Maiden’s Grace).

[Silas Rotleaf]

When a paladin falls do they still get treated like a fighter of the same level as of PnP? How does that get handled on this server? Frankly, I’m curious.

[haifisch021]

Something I would like to note is that fallen paladins lose the ability to use the relevel crystal if they have shifted outside of the LG alignment; multiclassing is prohibited at level 1 and you cannot select paladin for your second level because you no longer meet the requirements. Be warned!

[Arawn]

When a paladin falls do they still get treated like a fighter of the same level as of PnP? How does that get handled on this server? Frankly, I’m curious.

They have all of the same stats and saves, they just lose the special abilities. Yes, it means they're a slightly underpowered fighter--think about someone who's used to fighting with divine assistance and suddenly has to do without.

[Silas Rotleaf]

Same thing pretty much for fallen druids and clerics too?
Okay gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks.

[APorg]

Another question since you know I'm the guy who likes to over-think the rules.

Let's say I'm a level 11+ Paladin, and I Fall.

Technically, isn't multi-classing illegal from level 11+ of a single class (since it automatically violates the 10 level rule)?

Therefore wouldn't that imply a level 11+ Fallen Paladin can't level anymore by the current rules?

[Destinysdesire]

No, it means you cant be like 9 paly and 11 COT since the most you can multi is 10 of any other class then your base.

[APorg]

No, it means you cant be like 9 paly and 11 COT since the most you can multi is 10 of any other class then your base.

I don't think that's correct. If CoT went to 11, Paladin 9/CoT 11 would be perfectly legitimate.

[Destinysdesire]

You can't be 10 levels apart, the script will prevent you from levelling then. I think this starts once you have 11 levels in a class and more. You could be a 9 fighter / 10 rogue / 1 barbarian though since that's not breaking the rules, but not a 19 fighter / 1 barbarian.

This is valid at any level really, be it level 12 or 20. Also, the same applies for PrC's, though that's at level "20" (you must have 5 levels in a PrC by the time you hit your maximum level with ECL).

[APorg]

Paladin 9/ CoT 11 isn't 10 level aparts.

Anyway, I guess I misunderstood the implications; a multi-classed Paladin is effectively a Fallen Paladin, but a Fallen Paladin isn't a multi-classed Paladin, so I guess a Fallen Paladin can still progress in (Fallen) Paladin classes?

[zDark Shadowz]

I'd assume if you fall at lvl 11, having founded quite a majority of your career, it may be easier to apply for a delevel to 10 and continue from there as a new class, or remain at 11 and be comfortable that's your limit until you've atoned.

You'd be 'losing paladin powers' still, effectively, with the delevel. It'd be reason enough to consider it, but once you multiclass then you no longer can progress as a paladin, losing the ability to atone.

[EO]

Paladin 9/ CoT 11 isn't 10 level aparts.

Anyway, I guess I misunderstood the implications; a multi-classed Paladin is effectively a Fallen Paladin, but a Fallen Paladin isn't a multi-classed Paladin, so I guess a Fallen Paladin can still progress in (Fallen) Paladin classes?

You can’t progress as a fallen paladin unless you atone or multiclass. If your PC is above 10 you’d need to ask for a relevel to multiclass. You could alternatively use the relevel crystal and ask for a DM to help bump you to two.

That being said there’s no good reason to multiclass as a paladin unless you fell since you end up being a gimped fighter. And over the past 15 years only a handful of paladins fell. This rule change is to give them more flexibility since they no longer have to remake into a fighter.