Author Topic: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?  (Read 1974 times)

APorg

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So a thought occurred to me... with the new Parry system granting Shield AC, it may be possible to revamp the Shield spell so that it grants Shield AC instead of Deflection AC, by tying it into that system, as per the SRD? (See: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm )

Assuming it is technically feasible... I think there are a number of positive effects to this idea.

I know people often complain that Enchanted Helmets are weak -- precisely because the AC type they grant, Deflection AC, is eclipsed by two level 1 spells -- Shield and Shield of Faith. In general, this idea makes high Deflection AC a little rarer -- and therefore it makes spells items that grant +1, +2 and +3 Deflection AC that much more valuable.

It diversifies spells a bit more; currently, spells to boost Deflection AC and Natural AC are more powerful and more common. Meanwhile, there are a few spells and items that can boost your Shield AC, but they are less common. Getting +4 Shield AC currently is limited to high level Clerics and greater magical varnishes (and enchanted shields against certain types of damage); all those are high level options.

I don't think this would count as a nerf -- it would still make Shield a very useful and popular spell, especially at low levels, when you're simply not going to have another source of Shield AC that powerful. But I think in terms of quality of life and diversity of play, it would make the game more interesting.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 05:24:30 PM by aprogressivist »
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Ophie Kitty

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2019, 12:47:29 AM »
Don't forget about mage armor / greater mage armor, which nullify deflection entirely in terms of what's available on gear.

TheFury

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2019, 03:34:20 AM »
GMA/MA don't nullify deflect entirely if you have enchanted steel.
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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2019, 05:08:06 AM »
Outlining a few things-

Shield AC doesnt stack with other forms of Shield AC.

Parry uses Shield AC when a shield is not being used. When a shield is being used, it gets changed to Dodge/Other AC.

I'm perfectly fine with a lvl 1 spell replacing my need to invest 20 skillpoints worth of Parry after penalties & modifiers and items as a heavy-armoured 2h user, and replacing the need for radiant magical-grade varnish for shield users.

ILLY6666

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2019, 05:52:32 AM »
I'm perfectly fine with a lvl 1 spell replacing my need to invest 20 skillpoints worth of Parry after penalties & modifiers and items as a heavy-armoured 2h user, and replacing the need for radiant magical-grade varnish for shield users.

This. +1.
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Bpretty

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 07:38:12 PM »
I feel like this change would further reduce the usefulness of actual shield fighters,
Rendering enchanted shields more or less redundant, And any parry build with less than 5 AC being overshadowed by a level one spell.
This would be a nerf across the board for everyone but sorcerers and wizards as far as I can tell, Who don't really need more help.
If this change were to go through, I think we would find more people scrambling to find a better source of Deflection AC down the road,
Since there is a source (albeit a high level source) of +4 shield AC now, in the form of magic vestment, I can't see this as a beneficial change.

BattleCupcake

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2019, 04:04:49 AM »
I'd support this change if the Shield spell became Range: Personal, and had a shorter duration. It would then be a closer mirror of its pen and paper variant.

Gives the caster a magic shield, protects from magic missiles, and can't be cast on others.

Yes, it would nerf wizards' omnipowerful buffing ability. Clerics have one AC boosting spell that's really significant (being Shield of Faith), which is not better than the wizard variant of the spell until level 18 as it is, so such a change would serve very useful for the validity of Clerics in PvE play.

APorg

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 08:03:44 AM »
I feel like this change would further reduce the usefulness of actual shield fighters,

Yeah, IMO it ought to act as a buff to shield users in this case, effectively giving them an alternative source of regular shield buffs.

But yes, it would probably have to be range: Personal and shorter duration otherwise it would invalidate Parry for two-handed builds.

Still, just chewing out the idea; I'm not saying the idea is perfect but it would definitely be nice to decrease the Deflection AC saturation and make Deflection AC items a bit more viable.
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BattleCupcake

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 04:30:19 PM »
I feel like this change would further reduce the usefulness of actual shield fighters,

Yeah, IMO it ought to act as a buff to shield users in this case, effectively giving them an alternative source of regular shield buffs.

But yes, it would probably have to be range: Personal and shorter duration otherwise it would invalidate Parry for two-handed builds.

Still, just chewing out the idea; I'm not saying the idea is perfect but it would definitely be nice to decrease the Deflection AC saturation and make Deflection AC items a bit more viable.

While this may not be the place to comment about such things as this is an OOC forum where we don't talk much on statistics, yes, this change to the shield spell would make enchanted helmets actually useful.

Currently, they're a waste of experience nearly 100% of the time. I only enchanted mine for roleplay purposes, as it is a magic cat head.

BraveSirRobin

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2019, 06:36:20 AM »
I feel like this change would further reduce the usefulness of actual shield fighters,

Yeah, IMO it ought to act as a buff to shield users in this case, effectively giving them an alternative source of regular shield buffs.

But yes, it would probably have to be range: Personal and shorter duration otherwise it would invalidate Parry for two-handed builds.

Still, just chewing out the idea; I'm not saying the idea is perfect but it would definitely be nice to decrease the Deflection AC saturation and make Deflection AC items a bit more viable.

While this may not be the place to comment about such things as this is an OOC forum where we don't talk much on statistics, yes, this change to the shield spell would make enchanted helmets actually useful.

Currently, they're a waste of experience nearly 100% of the time. I only enchanted mine for roleplay purposes, as it is a magic cat head.

That's not strictly true. Even if we pretend you can do everything else with magic, enchanted helms give you some uni saves. Gotta get all dem uni saves. Mmmm. Enchanted uni saves.

haifisch021

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Re: Making the Shield spell grant Shield AC instead of Deflection AC?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2019, 11:19:20 AM »
I feel like this change would further reduce the usefulness of actual shield fighters,

Yeah, IMO it ought to act as a buff to shield users in this case, effectively giving them an alternative source of regular shield buffs.

But yes, it would probably have to be range: Personal and shorter duration otherwise it would invalidate Parry for two-handed builds.

Still, just chewing out the idea; I'm not saying the idea is perfect but it would definitely be nice to decrease the Deflection AC saturation and make Deflection AC items a bit more viable.

While this may not be the place to comment about such things as this is an OOC forum where we don't talk much on statistics, yes, this change to the shield spell would make enchanted helmets actually useful.

Currently, they're a waste of experience nearly 100% of the time. I only enchanted mine for roleplay purposes, as it is a magic cat head.

That's not strictly true. Even if we pretend you can do everything else with magic, enchanted helms give you some uni saves. Gotta get all dem uni saves. Mmmm. Enchanted uni saves.

Not worth the time though :P If you're that desperate for some extra saves you may as well save yourself the hassle of losing exp and just get a ring :P
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