Author Topic: Drop rates - Druid  (Read 2625 times)

SunZhao

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Drop rates - Druid
« on: January 14, 2019, 11:53:23 AM »
I was wondering if the drop rates for the druidic items could be adjusted?
The ring is supposed to drop in Blaustein (or used to) for example, but the only druid things people seem to run into are the rings of animal friendship and the sickle.

So I was wondering if the drop rates could be adjusted for the various items?

Darkside of Heaven

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 12:49:27 PM »
I was wondering if the drop rates for the druidic items could be adjusted?
The ring is supposed to drop in Blaustein (or used to) for example, but the only druid things people seem to run into are the rings of animal friendship and the sickle.

So I was wondering if the drop rates could be adjusted for the various items?

Drop rates tend to come in waves.
One month thyr wont drop then the next they will drop heaps. Nothing to do with programming or adjuatments its just random generation and like a ghost in the machine.
Keep an eye out on market square forum but remember there are a few druids on thw server and they would want to keep the ring too so maybe it is dropping but just not for you.

zDark Shadowz

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 01:19:00 PM »
Played here for 7 months now, beyond animal empathy stuff & two variants of ironwood splintmail design, haven't seen a proper "druid" thing drop yet.

That's not to say there aren't any druid things around, or that there's no items that druids can't benefit from too, but if there are then they're probably high value items that require max spawn so that the chests have enough total value to give the item a chance to show up.

As for speculation about where a certain druid ring shows up I've heard a different story, and unfortunately the forums aren't a place to publicly discuss where loot drops from.

I've just been dumping spot/AE & resistance apparel & jewellery on my druid personally as long as it's not metal plated, and sticking with a bow.

Not much else to be done. I'd like her to be more caster variant as a supporting role but the spell slots are very limited.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 01:25:09 PM by zDark Shadowz »

ILLY6666

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 02:09:10 PM »
I've played here for 5 years and have barely seen any druid drops what so ever. While a ton of sorc items, then a good deal of cleric and wizard.
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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 05:34:17 PM »
Regular looter here!

Loot matrix is inundated with stealth items at the moment. About two years ago (?) there was a nerf of a lot of areas I regularly trawled, and thereafter, certain pieces of equipment became a memory (Hierophant rings, Ovate's Robes in the druid vein). On Blaustein: prior to this, I'd found two of the rings on my druid. I have never seen one drop again (coincided with the adjustment of the Shadow Caves whereupon not all skeletal loot containers would appear in an area refresh - seems other places were altered too). I'd say overall, I'd find one decent piece an RL month. Now, it's more like one decent piece per half-year. The rest of the time, it's Tamer's Goads, Jamadhars, and masterwork maces.
Again, stealth/rogue gear has taken its place: Stalker's Shortbow, Shadowed Armor, and the +2 Rogue Gloves still (occasionally) drop in the same location.

Thankfully, I have heard Dread's working on it!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 05:38:23 PM by Robogarda »
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BattleCupcake

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 05:45:18 PM »
Also regular looter here!

Can confirm that stealth items have vastly polluted the loot tables. Many of the places that would drop 'druidic' items as you speak of also drop ranger items, which includes the most popular type of item on this server: Stealth gear!

Luckily for wizards, clerics and etc., stealth gear won't show up as often in the places where their equipment drops, so there's actually a chance of it appearing! In fact, it's very easy to outright farm for the wizard and clerical spell slot items to the point where going to the right places will eventually end up with entire magic bags full of them!

I too play a druid who has been looking for the rings you mention for over two IRL years. Fix stealth items, and the loot table will soon follow after it. Rest assured that this is a problem people are actually aware of!

Ard

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 07:29:02 PM »
Even hunta's guardian necklace (mid tier loot) is unfindable.

Razzen

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 07:32:00 PM »
I've been playing on this server for almost a year now and I think I've seen a druid ring drop once or twice. It definitely seems like they're getting the short end of the stick.

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 07:37:16 PM »
Cries in monk gear.

Edward

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 07:38:28 PM »
I think we need more Ranger spell slot items to drop.

Nemesis 24

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 08:37:11 PM »
Dont derail, Edward.  You know as well as anyone that ranger has more than twice as much as any other caster combat class in slot items.

Edward

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 01:32:10 AM »
My suggestion was going to be, make some ranger spell slot items give Druid slots as well so that Druid’s can use them. However doing the same with normal Druid slot items.

Destinysdesire

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 01:40:43 AM »
Maybe someone could design these items and offer them on the proper post? I would do so, but don't know the first thing about it.

Iridni Ren

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 09:30:53 AM »
Quote
stealth items have vastly polluted the loot tables

Individual experience of drop rates is only a small picture of a class's overall balance. I recall, for example, that not long ago the clamor was for more stealth gear because of the perception that rogues needed "to be made great again."

I also know that stealth (and detection) gear had come to command the most outrageous prices on the server.

In evaluating whether druid gear (or for any class) needs to be adjusted, I would prefer Devs look at how many active PCs there are of a current class, as the best indication of whether that class is currently superior or inferior to play. If, for example, druids are numerous, then druid gear may seem scarce (demand versus supply), but it also indicates druids are already strong (or at least fun to play), so that the class might not need additional help from the loot tables. Moreover, having a great many druids means druids will tend to be vocal and arguing for being made even stronger.

In contrast, a weak class may not be well represented because few are experiencing the difficulties of that class to speak up. The class consequently becomes relatively weaker and weaker.

Personally, I would also prefer that the locations of where to find certain items be less knowable, so that one could not say with authority, "Cleric and wizard items aren't affected by stealth gear pollution because of where their items drop." On a server in which so much is deliberately opaque to players--first and foremost, XP--it seems inconsistent that a new PC can come in knowing OOCly how she can go about getting the proper equipment, provided that PC's player is a veteran. We aren't to discuss item stats as another example, which again puts new players at a pretty big disadvantage. They don't know what the best gear is, much less where to find it.

Should veterans get the advantage of all this OOC knowledge? I don't think so because it's part of the reason such items wind up getting nerfed, made rarer, and the server grows harder and harder to start as a new PC and above all a new player--especially if the new player does not have buddies who already play.

TLDR: If any adjustment is made to drop rates it should reflect current class strength, rather than only increasing or decreasing the number of a particular item or items. The latter, while pleasing to some players and displeasing to others, is less likely to improve overall server balance.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 09:48:11 AM by Iridni Ren »

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2019, 11:09:06 AM »
I agree that the loot system is still experiencing some issues. Regardless of where you go - you’re more likely to encounter stealth equipment than anything else. It’s increasingly rare to encounter high end weapons, armor, cleric equipment, detection gear, and spellcasting items. On the other hand, stealth items that used to exist on an extremely limited basis (Abber Mocassins, Cloak of Stone, etc) are becoming semi-frequent finds. My guess is that this is probably unintentional and that the loot tables just aren’t pulling equally from items available.

We also still have the lingering issue of 1gp/low end items still cluttering chests. For example - the last I went through Veidrava, out of the 14 chests - I received 8 rods of frost, 3 golden chain belts, and a spattering of mid-tier items. The best item found was an Epiphany of the Plebs.

I’m not super familiar with how the loot tables work behind the scenes, so I’d only be guessing at how to resolve the issues. My understanding is that it’s fairly complex to deal with - I know Dread has put a lot of work into trying to filter out the useless stuff and get better items circulating.

Silas Rotleaf

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2019, 12:56:57 PM »
Spoiler: show
Not to tangent too much but finding a cat’s eye brooch was all but impossible for me leading me to wonder if the item had been taken out of circulation in the loot tables. Many irl months later I ended up having my character purchase one from a legacy player character who was selling stuff to free up her inventory space.


It definitely feels like we get lots and lots of some equipment for loot while other pieces are much rarer than you would think they should be.

Is there any sort of a systematic way to decide which pieces are common, uncommon and considered rare or does that get changed every so often?

APorg

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2019, 04:44:36 PM »
I also know that stealth (and detection) gear had come to command the most outrageous prices on the server.

Actually I suspect Stealth gear is at a period of (relative) cheapness.

The fact that people are auctioning items of the level of a Cloak of Stone or Abber Moccassins -- as in, actually trading them openly rather than selling them off to people for their IRL first born children -- says a lot about how the market has changed in favour of stealth items. People are vendor-trashing the Cloak of the Mouse.

This behaviour would have been unthinkable a few years ago, when stealth gear was genuinely scarce.
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Iridni Ren

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2019, 04:59:10 PM »
I was writing in past tense ("not that long ago" and "had come").

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BattleCupcake

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2019, 05:31:56 PM »
Quote
stealth items have vastly polluted the loot tables

[omitted]

TLDR: If any adjustment is made to drop rates it should reflect current class strength, rather than only increasing or decreasing the number of a particular item or items. The latter, while pleasing to some players and displeasing to others, is less likely to improve overall server balance.


How is any of this relevant to mentioning that druid items are nearly unfindable? This post feels like a wordy tangent.

The patterns of where things drop are just as perceivable to a new player, because where things drop is usually an extension of what kind of environment the loot box is in - hint. Most people will catch onto this very quickly (i.e. after doing two or three dungeons other than the Morninglord Crypts). The 20-30 paladins the Arelith migration brought over very quickly found out where to find Paladin gear with a little bit of critical thinking!

Philos

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2019, 10:18:14 PM »
Druids do in fact have several items: Hierophants rings, Ovates robes, Hunta's Guardian, Cloak of the High Forest, and several sickles who's name escapes me. If you'd like to see more Druid related items added you should experiment with the tool set and make a suggestion in the appropriate thread. (It's here btw https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44496.0) The tool set is fairly user friendly and I'd encourage you all to do a bit of tinkering in it.

As for the increase in stealth gear, I've enjoyed some of the new items and I'm sure newer players have as well. Yes, perhaps it could be toned down a notch but that's a different topic. It might be that some of those items are in multiple treasuries or that people just keep hitting the same dungeons. A dev might know better.

As for ranger items, I'd like to see something that didn't revolve around spell slots, but again, make what you want to see. Who knows, maybe it'll get added.

SunZhao

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2019, 02:41:29 AM »
I understand druids have quite a bit of items, this thread is merely about the -drop rate- of said items and not so much adding new ones. That's a different post entirely  :)

Iridni Ren

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2019, 09:11:39 AM »
I don't think you can look at a drop rate of an item in isolation because drop rates are zero sum: dropping more of one item means some other item is dropped less.

For example, previous posts complained about the prevalence of stealth gear, which is why I pointed out that the drop rates of stealth gear had been increased in response to a perception that rogues were under-powered.

All class-based gear and the frequency with which it occurs influences the balance between classes. This balance is much more important than whether a given PC is able to find a certain spell-slot ring, for example.

Repeatedly tweaking drop rates in response to "this item is now hard to find" also has a second downside in that players who do acquire rare items through great effort, time, and cost will have some justification in feeling a bit cheated when that item suddenly becomes common and cheap.


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SunZhao

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2019, 11:13:34 AM »
Oh I'm sure there are more than just druid items that have become extinct due to poor drop rates, however if you look at the mist camp vendor or pc vendors even. Druid items are never there, and I don't say rarely, or infrequently.. because then someone would have atleast heard of them and offered to sell them. Since there's not a ton of Druid characters at the moment.

It's not just the ring, that was an example. So I'll give you more examples.

Vendors have never seen Druid items:  People who commonly go hunting for items to sell look at me like I'm insane for asking about druid items, or if they do have an item it's usually the sickle. Even the mist camp vendor who usually has all the things people don't feel like selling to other people, only ever has the other class gear.

There aren't that many player druids, and I have asked those who used to play them. The gear was find-able atleast (Look to Roboguarda's post.) It's never found now.

Nobody is suggesting anything becomes common or cheap, a slight tweak is different than asking for a 50% increase in rate. I trust the Devs to look at it and make a sound decision.

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2019, 01:25:14 PM »
It's all tied to a chest value cap & the item values it's divided into (I think).

If they're about as rare as finding a cane of detection in a mid-level area at max spawn... Fair enough. Not impossible. I'll try come up with some item suggestions when I get home but I'm not that great at flavour text.

Destinysdesire

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Re: Drop rates - Druid
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2019, 01:29:36 PM »
I have been asking around for the last 2 months, as has Th'rar, no one has seen any druid drops that are not gloves of animal emp, or an autumn sickle.