New Prestige Class - Dirgist

[Dante101]

It does say you do get spells & bard song uses per day guys, that's why I had my specific query.

At worst, taking a level of bard after your dirgist levels would let you pluck out all the spells your bard should've had at the equivalent total level I assume. So don't worry about the spells, it's in the description it will have all its spells one way or another.

No, spells known in your spellbook as a spontaneous caster are hard-coded based on the class level itself. Otherwise, sorc/cleric/hallowed witch wouldn't be nearly as bad.

If the description's incorrect, it's probably worth rephrasing it to avoid heartache from laypeople like us who'd get the wrong impression.  It'd suck to apply for a PrC and work your way through its levels to find out you're not getting the benefits as originally described.

[BattleCupcake]

It does say you do get spells & bard song uses per day guys, that's why I had my specific query.

At worst, taking a level of bard after your dirgist levels would let you pluck out all the spells your bard should've had at the equivalent total level I assume. So don't worry about the spells, it's in the description it will have all its spells one way or another.

No, spells known in your spellbook as a spontaneous caster are hard-coded based on the class level itself. Otherwise, sorc/cleric/hallowed witch wouldn't be nearly as bad.

If the description's incorrect, it's probably worth rephrasing it to avoid heartache from laypeople like us who'd get the wrong impression.  It'd suck to apply for a PrC and work your way through its levels to find out you're not getting the benefits as originally described.

Agreed. And having no restrictions on its songs means that it doesn't even have to restrict itself to its intended niche as a support caster. This is simply too strong.

I take it you took into consideration that due to the longstanding NwN issue it won’t get new Bard spells at Dirgist levels. If that gets fixed I’ll reevaluate some things about it (in PnP they get the bard spells but no bard song progression). And as usual with these discussions, this remains a PrC, and is gated.

As from this, yes, the description is misleading. The same issue currently exists with Sorcerer/Hallowed Witch, Bard/Hallowed Witch, Bard/Pale Master, and Sorcerer/Pale Master.

[EO]

Thanks BattleCupcake for clarifying what I tried to say a few times in this topic. It's a general issue in NwN that may or may not get fixed with EE; if it gets fixed, it'll drastically improve these PrCs (Pale Master, Hallowed Witch, Dirgist). It's not so bad for wizards since they can learn spells via scrolls, nor clerics since they automatically access all spells, but it affects druids, bards, sorcerers, rangers more. It may be possible via a conversation after leveling up to have the player learn spells but it's a tad messy.

[BattleCupcake]

Thanks BattleCupcake for clarifying what I tried to say a few times in this topic. It's a general issue in NwN that may or may not get fixed with EE; if it gets fixed, it'll drastically improve these PrCs (Pale Master, Hallowed Witch, Dirgist). It's not so bad for wizards since they can learn spells via scrolls, nor clerics since they automatically access all spells, but it affects druids, bards, sorcerers, rangers more. It may be possible via a conversation after leveling up to have the player learn spells but it's a tad messy.

Doesn't this only affect bards and sorcerers? I'm certain that rangers and paladins can access spell slots of a higher level than they can cast using spell slot magic items, and almost certain druids can do the same.

[MAB77]

Yes. It's really just bards and sorcerers. Divine casters get all the spells.

[Zera]

A question: For this prestige class, candidates will have to apply, right? Does it follows the same procedure as the other Prestige classes... ?Do they need to be taught by a Dirgist, the class, even do is going to be a new one ?
Or this is a class, that for bards will come, as "inspiration", as a whisper, maybe, from who knows, the Dark Powers?

[Arawn]

A question: For this prestige class, candidates will have to apply, right? Does it follows the same procedure as the other Prestige classes... ?Do they need to be taught by a Dirgist, the class, even do is going to be a new one ?
Or this is a class, that for bards will come, as "inspiration", as a whisper, maybe, from who knows, the Dark Powers?

It will follow all of the usual rules for applying for PrCs.

[zDark Shadowz]

Better start singing at everyone's funerals for the next month or two.

[zDark Shadowz]

[Requiem - Enemies who fail their saving throw suffer 1d6 sonic damage each round for each unconscious or dead ally of the dirgist.]

How exactly is this ability applied IG? On the surface it looks like there might be many ways the feat might not work correctly.

Distance from ally to bard on death required to add a counter to the bard for additional damage?

It's including both PCs and objects, does it count the waypoints that's generated on the death into corpse/unconscious mode of a PC that is removed on revive/stabilisation?

Could a dirgist pick up 18 dead bodies in the ML crypt, dump them before an enemy while invisible and start making creatures save or take 18d6 sonic damage as they are 'dead allies'?

[Arawn]

[Requiem - Enemies who fail their saving throw suffer 1d6 sonic damage each round for each unconscious or dead ally of the dirgist.]

How exactly is this ability applied IG? On the surface it looks like there might be many ways the feat might not work correctly.

Distance from ally to bard on death required to add a counter to the bard for additional damage?

It's including both PCs and objects, does it count the waypoints that's generated on the death into corpse/unconscious mode of a PC that is removed on revive/stabilisation?

Could a dirgist pick up 18 dead bodies in the ML crypt, dump them before an enemy while invisible and start making creatures save or take 18d6 sonic damage as they are 'dead allies'?

A little faith in the scripting ability of the development team is called for. If you notice any unintended behaviors, please do report them in the appropriate forum.

[Ercvadasz]

This sounds like an incredible boost to an already very powerful class, then.  From its description it seems to me that no bard in their right mind wouldn't apply for this PrC. There's just no downsides that I see. Nothing they give up, but they have so much to gain.

Things I see given up: Only one primary save versus two; Pick Pocket, Speak Language, and Tumble as skills; must invest a feat (Endurance) that they might not have otherwise; must invest 6 skill points in Antagonize rather than some other skill.

What is gained: Lament of the Fallen, Graveyard Sonata, Crescendo of Blood, and Requiem.

(Whispers of the Dead is a wash.)

Crescendo of Blood seems of limited use in PvP. How often in a PvP fight would a bard last long enough to kill six enemies (to use the most extreme case)?

Similarly for Requiem in that the bonus requires the bard to have lost a lot of comrades before it gets very strong.

I have no idea if these are balanced or not, but they also force the bard down a certain RP path, which IMO would be a deterrent to every bard wanting the Prestige Class.

Alright. So there are a few very minor downsides. All of these pale in comparison to +6 AB and Damage for killing a few minks, while still being as effective as any other bard of equivalent level.  The way the description reads, it's basically a further buffed bard. Bard song appears to progress like a basic bard would, which is a Bard's primary advantage over other classes imo.

Minks? If there are no living creatures...just bring a few oxen or summon some creatures...or get a ranger and druid in your party and use grease on the dominated animals...

[Relapse]

Hi! I'm new to the server and rolled a bard and was considering moving towards a Dirgist. Is the spell progression broken? This topic confused me a little.

[Iridni Ren]

It sounds as though for the time being spell progression continues to be broken with bards/sorcerers + any prestige class.

Perhaps EE might fix that in the future.

[Laiken]

The loss of 5th and 6th spell progression is the one thing that makes me refrain from applying, even though Roleplay wise I think it is entirely fitting for my character, because it would barely make her half the fighter she is today, and that would make absolutely no sense.

If there was an alternate way to get at least "some" of the spells if not all, I'd definitely go for it head first. Don't suppose Beamdog are even considering working on those broken spell progressions, are they ?

[MAB77]

[...] Don't suppose Beamdog are even considering working on those broken spell progressions, are they ?

We can't speak for what Beamdog plans to do or not obviously. The best way to get Beamdog to fix anything in regards to NWN:EE is always to reach them out and report issues to them directly.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/66998/how-to-report-bugs-you-find-in-nwn-ee

[Relapse]

I've noticed bardsong seems to have quite a large progression gap for levels 14 and 15 (which is disappointing) and gets a major lift at 16. I could appreciate that going 16 bard meant you were committing to go 100% bard and that this was a fair benefit for a pure class. The introduction of the dirgist PrC however means they can easily get the level 16 bardsong with bard/dirgist and then muticlass into anything really as the third class.

I personally would like to see the dirgist levels be combined with bard levels when considering the 10 level multiclass rule or the benefits of some of the 16 level bardsong filter down to levels 14 and 15 for fairness to the more traditional bard multiclasses.

[Zera]

Hi, now that disguise is a skill... it is also parte of the Dirgist skills then?

[NacreCicatrix]

Hi, now that disguise is a skill... it is also parte of the Dirgist skillls then?

No.

[Zera]

And still no new spells, right?

[EO]

And still no new spells, right?

Indeed, this is a hardcoded issue. I strongly encourage you to bring it up to Beamdog if you want to see that part changed.