Author Topic: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting  (Read 2704 times)

Uccido

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Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« on: November 27, 2018, 01:16:44 AM »
I'm reasonably new to the server, and have been exploring some of the crafting options available. I agree with 99% of the system, and quite like it. I've predominantly been exploring woodwork/leathercrafting due to the character I've been playing, but after dabbling in some alchemy I've had a mindblowing experience (namely, batch crafting).

While thematically, I can understand why batch crafting works particularly in some crafts and not others (boiling leather, distillation, all materials could hypothetically be in the pot at the same time, and yet all materials could hypothetically also just be on the bench, next to the still, waiting to be used).

So, from having both batch and singular crafting clearly viable, my query/suggestion is this.

Can crafting tools have two abilities on them?

One for a singular craft, and one for a batch of up to say, 5? The batch craft time could in turn take 5 times as long.

While this doesn't decrease craft time, and maintains the idea of time investment (which seems to be a strong theme in the system) it reduces the number of actions required by the player, and therefore healthier for both their fingers and their sanity.

This also would help the typical batch crafts when learning, and remove the tediousness of having to add materials for a single craft over and over in order to have the best chance at success.

An alternative to having two abilities to an item, would be a second (or more) tier of tool (I haven't seen any) which in turn would be able to perform more than one craft per roll. This could be taken a step further, by having them be produced by other crafters, rather than from a vendor/drop. Steel carpenters saw for example might do 3 crafts at a time, while an adamantine might do 5. Same for some gathering tools, better quality woodcutters axe with bonus dmg to trees/objects to overcome the DR.

DM Erebus

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 05:27:32 AM »
I think there's some interesting and, more importantly, implementable ideas in here.

Bearing in mind that crafting is designed to be a time sink that rewards investment, so we must be wary about any changes that save too much time.

It is not possible for an item to have more than one Use Unique Power, because of how scripts are tied to items. It would be possible to have new tools with different scripts though.
I think the idea of superior felling axes and mining picks is a good one, if they were gated behind a high woodcutting/smelting crafting level to prevent these improved tools being the new norm.
I also think batch versions of the material preparation tools; saw, bellows etc, would be a good idea if they were gated. They could even be crafted! Dedicated craftspersons often create or adapt their own tools after all

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 08:16:43 AM »
I like the idea of reducing user clicks without reducing crafting time required. In addition to helping out player sanity, I also think it would make it easier for players to maintain meaningful dialogue/rp while crafting if they didn’t have to focus on clicking another crafting use button as often as they do now in some of the crafts.

Destinysdesire

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 08:23:38 AM »
+9000

Please implement this....crafting as it is...one step at a time...is very very very boring.

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 09:11:12 AM »

It is not possible for an item to have more than one Use Unique Power, because of how scripts are tied to items. It would be possible to have new tools with different scripts though.

But use can open a menu selection that allows choices, I think, because it happens with the bedroll. And when you use a campfire IIRC.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 09:31:32 AM by Iridni Ren »

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Always_a_hero

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 10:01:06 AM »
Don't color dyes have more than one (two) Use Unique Power (UUP) which affects different parameter of an object's color based on which is used?

Applied to a crafting tool, one option would activate a loop which makes crafting roll(s) based on the amount of items on the table... If loops are appliable to EE's coding.
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Destinysdesire

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 10:04:31 AM »
They do yes, for options of Leather code 1, and Leather code 2 as to which part of the leathers they dye.

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 01:26:54 PM »
Don't color dyes have more than one (two) Use Unique Power (UUP) which affects different parameter of an object's color based on which is used?

Applied to a crafting tool, one option would activate a loop which makes crafting roll(s) based on the amount of items on the table... If loops are appliable to EE's coding.

It's not quite the same, dyes don't use the 'unique power script' specifically.

The way Unique Power scripts work is a clever idea called tag based scripting, where you activate the Unique Power item on the object, the object is checked for the tag that is placed on it, then runs the relevant script based on that tag, so unique powered items are locked into the one script (which can have different effects based on what the target is, but this is all contained within that one script.)

I'd say it would be possible for the unique power script' to initiate a dialogue with craft X amounts when used on the correct placeable object, and then have different scripts tied to each option within that menu, but once you bring up that dialogue you're no longer using the easy assigned targets from using that unique power on an object for which container was targeted for crafting. There's ways to script around it but some methods can cause other issues, ie: get nearest object by tag might be a problem when using anvils / tables that are too close to each other, requiring a slight follow-up positional adjustment or end up crafting the person next to you'd stuff, player-unique generated integers onto the object may cause issues when switching tables, random-generated integers each time the object is initiated and saved to a
player would need a delay command to clear it off after a while to time it out to prevent the tables from storing a ridiculous amount of numbers over a 48-72 hour period of crafting.

Or there's some other method of scripting it that I haven't thought of this morning but, using the current functions of targeting in one go with the unique power simplifies a lot of things from what I'm aware of.

You would need different tools with other unique power options and then the scripts could be copy & pasted with a slight adjustment to the total number of items crafted, that would by far be the easiest to create and keep scripts down to their minimum but it still ends up causing a numerous amount of duplicated scripts, and keeping the number of scripts used down to a minimum to conserve server resources is also a valid concern.

Easier just to have players adjust how they do things and the server runs smoother. Only want to craft one thing at a time? Only put enough in for one craft. Batch crafting? Stack those 200 bottles into one cauldron and start mixing.

It would be nice to have a crafting option to consecutively craft items one by one until there's no more materials left to craft with, but that has its own issues if someone isn't paying attention to what they're crafting. Ie iron ingots into horse shoes, beech logs into planks into wooden shafts, potion bottles mixed with partial herb recipes to make the lesser variants...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 01:33:16 PM by zDark Shadowz »

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 01:50:39 PM »
Spoiler: show
Don't color dyes have more than one (two) Use Unique Power (UUP) which affects different parameter of an object's color based on which is used?

Applied to a crafting tool, one option would activate a loop which makes crafting roll(s) based on the amount of items on the table... If loops are appliable to EE's coding.

It's not quite the same, dyes don't use the 'unique power script' specifically.

The way Unique Power scripts work is a clever idea called tag based scripting, where you activate the Unique Power item on the object, the object is checked for the tag that is placed on it, then runs the relevant script based on that tag, so unique powered items are locked into the one script (which can have different effects based on what the target is, but this is all contained within that one script.)

I'd say it would be possible for the unique power script' to initiate a dialogue with craft X amounts when used on the correct placeable object, and then have different scripts tied to each option within that menu, but once you bring up that dialogue you're no longer using the easy assigned targets from using that unique power on an object for which container was targeted for crafting. There's ways to script around it but some methods can cause other issues, ie: get nearest object by tag might be a problem when using anvils / tables that are too close to each other, requiring a slight follow-up positional adjustment or end up crafting the person next to you'd stuff, player-unique generated integers onto the object may cause issues when switching tables, random-generated integers each time the object is initiated and saved to a
player would need a delay command to clear it off after a while to time it out to prevent the tables from storing a ridiculous amount of numbers over a 48-72 hour period of crafting.

Or there's some other method of scripting it that I haven't thought of this morning but, using the current functions of targeting in one go with the unique power simplifies a lot of things from what I'm aware of.

You would need different tools with other unique power options and then the scripts could be copy & pasted with a slight adjustment to the total number of items crafted, that would by far be the easiest to create and keep scripts down to their minimum but it still ends up causing a numerous amount of duplicated scripts, and keeping the number of scripts used down to a minimum to conserve server resources is also a valid concern.

Easier just to have players adjust how they do things and the server runs smoother. Only want to craft one thing at a time? Only put enough in for one craft. Batch crafting? Stack those 200 bottles into one cauldron and start mixing.

It would be nice to have a crafting option to consecutively craft items one by one until there's no more materials left to craft with, but that has its own issues if someone isn't paying attention to what they're crafting. Ie iron ingots into horse shoes, beech logs into planks into wooden shafts, potion bottles mixed with partial herb recipes to make the lesser variants...


What I understand from it is that the current crafting system uses UUP (different on each tool) which first check the tag of the table it's used on followed by the tag of the crafting material on the table. However, that can only be confirmed by the devs.

My question wasn't answered though: are we sure an item can only have one type of UUP? And if so, would it be just to allow all crafts to hold the option to work by unit or batch instead of placing the items manually to do individual rolls or having to wait a 6-7 second animation for each crafting material used.
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zDark Shadowz

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 01:59:45 PM »
I did answer but I will simplify.

Items can only hold one unique power script. Elaboration on deviations of effects listed already, explaining again creates walls of text.

Using the targeting script functions of the unique power script is easier than trying to call it from a conversation dialogue containing multiple functions due to issues already listed.

Easier to have new tools with those pre-set options, but this still duplicates many existing scripts to accommodate. Lots of scripts = lots of tied up server resources, inflating the cost on the server of the crafting system is possible but not generally recommended, but I'm not a developer so if they want to go that route & server can handle it, then don't see why not..?

Crafting could be put on a loop using an ExecuteCommand to run itself after the crafting delay but might need a positional check condition before it so that it won't be run again after you've moved somewhere else, so it doesn't lock the script into an infinite loop, but using ExecuteCommand, that next script may not run off the targets the first one selected, depends how it's been scripted.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:17:49 PM by zDark Shadowz »

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 02:22:45 PM »
In hindsight maybe I shouldn't have tried answering this, sorry.

Always_a_hero

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 02:30:10 PM »
Or I suppose the easiest way would be to make every crafts work the same way: like herbalism or alchemy, if you have more than one material filling the recipe, it'll make one roll for to overall success/failure of crafting. If players want to craft one item at a time, then they'll just have to place said one item at a time on the table before using the tool.
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Uccido

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2018, 08:17:06 PM »
Could there simply be a second set of tools, that calls the same script, but has a batch tag associated with it?

Then within each script it checks for a batch tag, if so it performs a batch craft, if not it performs a single?

Maintains the same number of scripts throughout the crafting system, and adds flexibility?

By no means am I suggesting that it just loop single crafts indefinitely, I feel that would be opposed to the nature of the server (afk crafting is very anti-rp in my eyes).

And is there any way I can get a copy of the crafting scripts to review/experiment with? I've done some modding and coding in the past and might be able to find a solution within the existing system.

DM Erebus

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2018, 01:16:28 AM »
You're very welcome to apply for Developer. You can find how to do that under the 'Rules and Applications' subforum.

You will have to fight MAB who guards the crafting system as a dragon might guard it's horde.

MAB77

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2018, 09:09:08 AM »
Now now. You'd be surprised at how I actually work to simplify things for you guys, but once a decision is made I will be steadfastly upholding the team's decision.

That being said... There are several considerations to take into account in the above proposal. First off, mechanical and resources wise. I'm sure it would be feasable to have the script run longer when processing large batches, but what would be the impact of that on server performances? What happens when multiple crafters launch those scripts at the same time? What are the risks the script would be likely to hang and have unforseen effects? These are the kind of concerns we must assess before changing everything.

Then there is the philosophical approach too. Yes crafting involves tedious unending grinding, but that serves as a gateway to make sure too that not everyone learns and master all the crafts. When you have enough gold and the means to quickly gather ressources, mastering a craft through batch processing becomes very easy. Herbalism as exhibit A here. (DCs on potions about to change as per players request btw.). Mastering crafts is a huge advantage to whoever undertook it in the end. Balance-wise it seems best not to add more batch processing options.
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Uccido

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2018, 09:37:57 AM »
How feasible is it to cap a batch at say, 3 or 5 crafts?

I found it absolutely absurd that I spent hours grinding leatherworking and woodworking, only to go to start alchemy and spent about 10 seconds on half a level. Especially when reagents can generally be procured en mass from things that spawn together (shadows, scarabs, trolls).

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2018, 06:10:54 PM »
As someone who actually put the time, an absurd amount of gold, roleplay (that actually shocked me), and effort into crafting I have been stockholmed into thinking that the current system is fine when it's a test on your patience.

A direct example of what batching does is the current shortage of leatherworkers as opposed to herbalists and alchemists at the moment. The more you actually can breeze through the grind the less the professions start to mean anything and we'll lose something that actually has some cache behind it when someone walks up to someone else and says...

"I can gild platinum."

"Sure, I can make that leather armor for you."

"Yes, if you have the rare substance needed to smelt into adamantine I can smelt it for you. If you get a bar, I can also make anything you want out of it."

"I'm an enchanter."

"YES, I CAN MAKE ALCHEMICALLY CHARGED ARROWS FOR YOU. DO YOU WANT TO BUY OUT MY WHOLE STOCK?"

Having finally put in my dues I am leery of anything to make it easier and that's 100% selfish of me to admit. Put on a podcast and start grinding, because we need this wringing process to keep it valuable or everyone will be one. Crafting has been made into something that's extremely valuable if you make it into the end-tier stuff and it's something that helps to be used to influence the rest of the community. But if everyone has it then everyone not only has powerful, easy-to-mass-produce gear but nobody needs to interact with each other for equipment.

A parting thought is imagine if Borval and the other handful of crafters died off suddenly and closured. Do you know what the current gear situation would be like now? That's actually fairly devastating to the lowbies and they don't get kitted out nearly as easily. By actually roughing it out they became fixtures on the servers that's worth some recognition and we'd be taking that away from them for every quality-of-life change we introduce piece by piece.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 06:31:04 PM by Booksarefun666 »

Uccido

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2018, 07:23:12 PM »
I'm not suggesting we make the grind shorter or easier. I just want less RSI in my finger.

If batch crafting tools were gated behind crafting levels then it wouldn't take away anything from those who have already done the grind. Another idea for this is to have the DC of the craft increase per copy of the recipe (+1 per item beyond the first, if possible within script) so that skilled crafters can process mundane materials in an easier manner, without expediting the early grind for new crafters.

I currently have +15 to carpentry. I can't fail on beech or yew. My woodworking however is not so great, performing 140 mundane crafts to get beech planks to make crates is mind numbing. If I could do a few beech planks at a time, at 100% success, with 0 carpentry xp gain (or equivalent to a single), I would be ecstatic. Because then I can say that I have progressed my skills far enough that I have become more efficient in cutting wood, even if I still lack the ability to assemble more than one crate at a time.

It makes perfect sense to me that a skilled craftsman would be faster, and more efficient at mundane tasks than someone who's just started out.

I'm yet to meet Borval, but from what I've heard he should be able to work steel (or was it chitin) as though it's butter.

As far as points such as "put on a podcast" I already Netflix while I grind. I'm more or less OOC the entire time I'm crafting, because it's just so tedious to click every 1.5 seconds I can't be bothered paying attention to the surroundings. People who go the alchemy/herbal route get to do 2-3 crafts at a time, and can afford to fit some RP inbetween.

I understand why people who've done the grind might be offput by anything that might make it simpler for others (I've been a high tier crafter in another mmo which decided to give out free crafting levels with an unnamed expansion).

I can't be the only one who feels there has to be something more rewarding to progressing through the early stages of a profession, I constantly find sawhorses full of shafts and workbenches full of crates because there's no incentive to make them other than the experience, and hauling them to the tradehouse isn't worth the time. There's no way someones character wakes up in the morning and says "I'm going to make 140 crates today, and then abandon them because I want the practice".

I'd like to see the system be in the right stage of balance, that crafting has a more RP feel than an OOC feel.

Changes to something thats a huge core of the game shouldn't be taken lightly however, and warrants a great deal of discussion from both old crafters and new, for both the balance and flavour perspective. I'm glad to see we have people on both sides of the fence.

Destinysdesire

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2018, 07:33:06 PM »
Fairly, wanna get people to sell crafts to the trade house? Actually make it worth hauling it to the trade house. You get the exact same price from the basic vendor for the stuff as you do from the Trade house...or you get like 2-3 gold extra......its just not worth it for that petty of a difference, now if I was getting 40-50 gold more...then its at least worth the effort of my time to be overloaded with stuff.

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2018, 07:37:11 PM »
I'm not suggesting we make the grind shorter or easier. I just want less RSI in my finger.


But the sheer pain involved and mind-numbingness involved is the challenge and it's challenge enough to scare most people away. Anything to ease that is making the grind more appealing.

But honestly if it was implemented I'd personally be okay with it simply to ease my own suffering.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 07:42:53 PM by Booksarefun666 »

MAB77

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2018, 07:25:14 AM »
Fairly, wanna get people to sell crafts to the trade house? Actually make it worth hauling it to the trade house. You get the exact same price from the basic vendor for the stuff as you do from the Trade house...or you get like 2-3 gold extra......its just not worth it for that petty of a difference, now if I was getting 40-50 gold more...then its at least worth the effort of my time to be overloaded with stuff.

This is something we definitively do not want. We want players to players interactions. Its on purpose that we will not allow profits to be made by selling crafted goods to NPCS. Some options do exist to sell crafted goods at the warehouse but only low level stuff.
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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2018, 11:44:30 AM »
I will say this to would-be crafters. You do not have to grind alone or make this a tedious enterprise. The error is trying to do too many at once and level it all quickly, and worse, do it all alone. It's not a race. Take your time. Being a crafter will drive a lot of roleplay your way. You can easily build up a network of suppliers by hiring groups to gather certain resources from dungeons. Especially when something becomes too easy for you to make, delegate, hire journeyman crafters to make your steel or wood handles. Many high level players also act as patrons and will finance/help/tutor would be crafters too. Usually, when you advertize your needs, someone will respond.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 11:48:18 AM by MAB77 »
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Destinysdesire

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2018, 02:59:06 PM »
Fairly, wanna get people to sell crafts to the trade house? Actually make it worth hauling it to the trade house. You get the exact same price from the basic vendor for the stuff as you do from the Trade house...or you get like 2-3 gold extra......its just not worth it for that petty of a difference, now if I was getting 40-50 gold more...then its at least worth the effort of my time to be overloaded with stuff.

This is something we definitively do not want. We want players to players interactions. Its on purpose that we will not allow profits to be made by selling crafted goods to NPCS. Some options do exist to sell crafted goods at the warehouse but only low level stuff.

um, I am talking more about things like the crates the Trade House specifically buys and such....they are generally there for low levels to earn money.

Uccido

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2018, 08:28:15 PM »
When it comes to the trade house side of things, I generally view profits in terms of xp rather than fang, but there is a significant difference when it comes to general goods as to whether they get left in a crafting station/trashcan or actually worth hauling.

I take 500 fang of deer pelt (at Petre value) into the craft house, turn it into ~350 fang of bags/boots, and the gap is covered by XP. This is fine. Total profit of maybe 300 fang after tannin etc. Whole process takes one in-game day from a 6am start to collect, process, and cash in. This is doable on a brand new crafter, with less fang initially, and increasing as levels are gained. Alternatively I have other characters I can sell these pelts to for 1000 fang and still have the entire IG afternoon to go adventuring with others. This doesn't improve my skills, but someone else can have fun counting out 50 tannin from the merchant while I'm RPing and doing things.

Woodworking is not so lucky. A full day of gathering beech, crafting small crates (for higher trade house value) and maxing out an ox (~80 crates at walking pace) plus carrying a few yourself (maybe 15 if travelling light) comes in about 280 fang, minus 20 fang for the ox and you've spent 24+ game hours for 260 fang. As for pushing those resources to another player? I'm yet to see anyone use beech for anything other than crate spam and dump, with the norm generally being set up a sawhorse next to the tree spawn and just stop by every so often to craft a million shafts and leave them there. If it had an applicable use to other players (storage box recipe? 1lb for beech 0.5lb for oak? no weight reduction) or better value as a crate at tradehouse there might be less wastage left around (in containers, but still, trees are getting cut down for absolutely zero value which should make most friends of the forest incredibly angsty).

By all means I take people along when I can to gather resources, but during low pop times no ones around, and during high pop everyone wants to go dungeoning. I can squeeze a pelt round into the daily routine but woodworking generally consumes so much time with both gathering and crafting. When asking traders/crafters about whether I can gather resources (raw or processed) for them for coin, the general response thus far has been sod off/no thanks I do it all myself. There's not enough value in a low level resource like beech to incentivize new characters to gather for crafters (that is, no reason for a crafter to pay, other than grinding). Similarly, no one seems to want to collect any form of metal shy of steel for me, making it very hard to learn a lot of woodworking recipes. Copper/bronze/iron seem to be in little to no demand for early crafters, and skilled crafters won't give it the time of day. When you can buy gilded steel weapons for 500 fang, why bother with anything less.

This is all however, irrelevant to my original point. Tradehouse/resource value isn't what I'm here to discuss. (Although it would be nice if they bought bows)

I want to be able to say as a skilled/well equipped craftsman I am more efficient than the average joe of my craft, not just on success of difficult tasks, but quickness in mundane ones. As someone who works in the electrical industry you can see a clear difference in both work speed and reliability of a tradesperson compared to their apprentice. This is due to both experience with the job, and the knowledge of choosing the best tool for the job. As part of pre-voc a student is required to fulfill their assignments using hand tools alone, with the idea being it gives them a better understanding of the task, and an appreciation for more efficient tools available. If this were reflected within the game, it would make perfect sense. I'm not saying we chuck a CNC machine in the forge, but my $30 automatic wire strippers work about 20x faster and better than a $5 standard pair an apprentice starts with.

Preparation skills will always be higher than assembly skills as well, due to failures not carrying any xp over to assembly. Is it something to consider then for these skills alone? It would seem fair enough to me that cutting wood/skinning pelts would benefit more from muscle memory than assembly would, and the speed of these skills would increase over time. While assembling an item would require more attention to detail on an individual basis. My skinning is currently about 5 levels above my leatherworking, the same is true for carpentry compared to woodworking. I would like to think if I have that much more experience in those areas I might be a bit faster at it. If skilled preparation became a faster task than assembly then there might be more preparers out there willing to sell to people who purely want to assemble.

If processing base materials had a faster alternative (even if only at higher level) we might see more people focus solely on skinning/carpentry/smelting and merchanting those goods to others who focus solely on woodwork/leatherwork/smithing. As it stands the only merchants I see are selling finished items (majority potions & tonics, followed by arrows. Presumably by their temporary nature and constant demand. Herb bags/flasks do wonders to make those crafts easier as well). And those who craft permanent goods, are typically on demand only, or carry a finite range of high end with them.

Bit of a rant below, feel free to ignore.
Spoiler: show
I have about 16,000 arrows in my bags as a result of people going "here I'm grinding smithing, everything else would just get trashed/vendored anyway, have a bunch of arrowheads". Which is partly fine because woodworking xp for me, but damn this is going to take me forever to burn through, and the copper arrows are all going to go to waste because of the lack of fey. If the level of manufacture and dump that happens on the server occurred in reality the greenies would be protesting in the streets.


Also as a side note about P2P things, leather bags are somewhat redundant? Equivalent to a storage box that can be bought for 15? fang from an NPC, and trade houses for 10. If they were adjusted to weigh 0.5lb they might find a p2p value of between storage box and 250 fang (vaasti satchel from npc), otherwise they have no purpose other than trade house & xp. Crates and barrels at least are used by merchants on occasion to display goods.

As it stands I feel a lot of the incentive to grind is "doing it for the xp so i can use better materials to make better stuff" which I feel opposes the server focus of RP. By sending fur boots to the tradehouse I at least get to feel like they're getting put to use by the people of vallaki instead of sitting in a trash can. A set of "trade goods" such as bags, fence posts/wooden beams, etc (one thing for each assembly skill, perhaps) that is always accepted at the tradehouse (or regularly high demand, they do send shipments elsewhere!) and has a reusable pattern would at least help to maintain immersion when approaching the grind.


Iridni Ren

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Re: Suggestion: Crafting - Tools & Batch Crafting
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2018, 08:54:16 PM »
After watching this argument play out several times over the last couple of years, I suggest that if you don't like tedious, mind-numbing grinding...

...don't be a crafter. Leave it to those who accept their fate.

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Having finally put in my dues I am leery of anything to make it easier and that's 100% selfish of me to admit. Put on a podcast and start grinding, because we need this wringing process to keep it valuable or everyone will be one. Crafting has been made into something that's extremely valuable if you make it into the end-tier stuff and it's something that helps to be used to influence the rest of the community.

^ This. This is why it is the way it is.

I think it goes against the community's often stated goal of players' closuring long-time PCs because even masochists willing to go through this once seldom want to do it again. But experience and observation tell me that writing long arguments for how crafting could be made less repetitive and time-consuming is well...repetitive and time-consuming.

Without any levels gained :D

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