Author Topic: Revisiting Tridents  (Read 1020 times)

Philos

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2018, 04:42:27 PM »
Could also consider bonus damage type: slashing or some type of onhit bleed effect.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 04:45:47 PM by Philos »

zDark Shadowz

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2018, 04:44:31 PM »
perceived realism

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aprogressivist

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2018, 05:34:07 PM »
Re: Greatswords, 2d6 averages 7 but 1d12 averages 6.5.
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Booksarefun666

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2018, 08:00:11 PM »
There's also other 'unoptimal' weapons out there like the sickle. mace, and club out there. Literally the only difference between the club and mace is the size difference and the sickle is a low-rate handaxe with a humble x2 - granted, it's a druid weapon but so is the scimitar and the club, weapons that arguably the most powerful on the server in specific contexts.

I'm not so sure the base weapon really matters when weapons of all sorts are given various enchantments and we're really not scrabbling over basic items beyond NCEs. Now it'd be nice to see the ones with disarm have improved disarm instead since we already have disarm to start with.

I don't think it'd be the end of the world if trident stayed the way it was. Take the whip for example, I like to pack one as a side arm for the few times I need elemental damage because those are the whips that typically drop but the base-level whip is absolutely meme-tier in every way.

I do feel for would-be trident users though. If I recall they're two hand weapons and there's next-to-no trident drops and I've never, ever saw a trident user on this server. I'm not even sure they're craftable.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 08:09:19 PM by Booksarefun666 »
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LivingWasteland

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2018, 09:15:40 PM »
Note, I wasn't backing the higher crit modifier for the trident. It's not nearly as good at hitting the vital bits as the spear. I was, however, backing the bump in base damage. Because three bloody holes IS more damage than one.


Fungal Artillery

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2018, 02:15:14 AM »
Tridents are one-handed weapons. I've long used a magical trident on my cleric because that specific magic item has a powerful damage bonus that is not resisted by anything. And I've had a hard time replacing it with something more useful. In the context of playing a cleric with no melee weapon focuses, it's been the universally most useful weapon I could've used. A lot of the time criticals aren't even a factor.

In other words, trident's base weakness is accounted for in some of the magic items available. I don't really care though if the base stats are adjusted, so long as it is done keeping other martial weapons in mind.
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MAB77

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2018, 02:32:01 AM »
This remains a game where all things do not have to be equals and do not necessarily have to be adjusted.

Fungal Artillery hints to the most obvious solution. The base stats are not the only way to balance perceived deficiencies. Looted tridents can have properties that overcome those. I invite you to submit special tridents to the Item Requests threads. The loot table needs some love too.
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Iridni Ren

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2018, 09:05:49 AM »
Tridents are one-handed weapons.

As used in game, yes, which is another reason they'd be weak. For anyone advocating the trident be stronger, try dealing with a pitchfork with one hand and see how awkward it is to exert any kind of thrust. (The farmhand in the video uses both hands.)

A retarius using a net in one hand could still put both hands behind a trident strike, especially if the net had already been tossed. Holding a shield, however, doesn't allow that.

I don't know how easy this would be to program, but perhaps a trident could do much worse damage on a prone opponent, when the extra weight would come into play and its being swung in the manner for which it's designed.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 12:17:08 PM by Iridni Ren »

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Fungal Artillery

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2018, 09:22:36 AM »
Tools and weapons have different weight and points of balance. A woodchopping axe is heavy and unwieldy compared to a battle axe. And spear and shield has been one of the most historically successful weapon sets of war. I don't imagine a trident functions much differently than a spear when it comes to thrusting one handed.
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Iridni Ren

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2018, 09:59:06 AM »
Tools and weapons have different weight and points of balance. A woodchopping axe is heavy and unwieldy compared to a battle axe. And spear and shield has been one of the most historically successful weapon sets of war. I don't imagine a trident functions much differently than a spear when it comes to thrusting one handed.

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As I said before, I am not defending the spear's current implementation. But much of the trident/pitchfork's awkwardness comes from having the weight at one end, whereas a spear can be designed like a javelin and thus more easily balanced.

A trident was not designed for fighting, but thrusting downward into water. Its weight inevitably falls mostly at the head, and having three points means it's going to have even more weight at that end than would a regular spear. To balance and wield it, therefore, requires grasping it more toward that end.

Weapons like axes and clubs are swung, rather than thrust. Because of the physical principle of leverage, the farther back on a handle a weapon can be grasped, the more this extra weight is advantageous. When thrust downward, the (piercing) trident benefits from the added weight, but the more the angle of the thrust must fight gravity, the more the weight is a detriment.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 10:22:10 AM by Iridni Ren »

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zDark Shadowz

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Re: Revisiting Tridents
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2018, 01:31:47 PM »
So we have some rough ideas of what to submit as item ideas now:

*Tridents with damage / keen
*Tridents with tanglefoot bag throwing (net throwing)
*Tridents with sneak attack (downward thrust on downed / disabled opponents)
*Tridents with improved disarm (disabling close combat weapons)
*Tridents with 1 use searing light to throw at Ursula

Flavour appropriately with Ravenloftian descriptions and penalties and start submitting folks. :)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 01:33:33 PM by zDark Shadowz »
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