You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Wanted posters in game  (Read 1634 times)

King Pickle

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Wanted posters in game
« on: October 26, 2018, 06:42:30 PM »
I just noticed one of my characters had been summoned to the Citadel weeks ago. I know I was playing actively at the time but somehow missed the forum post.
We have a rule about players having to put posters up IG right? I think we should extend it to wanted posters, summons etc.

Iluvatar

  • Community Council
  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • I'm one of Strahd's subjects
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2018, 07:20:07 PM »
There aren t any explicit rules stating peoples need to put posters in game. Its a recommendation more than anything. The closest thing to a rule is that anything antagonistic is expected to be posted in game as well. Just have a look at the your unread post a few time a week and you wont be missing anything. ;)

Its inmportant to check the forum not only because there are ic announcement, but also because all important OOC/server related announcement are made here.

~ Iluvatar / Iluvatar-2 / Iluvatar NCE

King Pickle

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2018, 07:53:49 PM »
There aren t any explicit rules stating peoples need to put posters in game. Its a recommendation more than anything. The closest thing to a rule is that anything antagonistic is expected to be posted in game as well. Just have a look at the your unread post a few time a week and you wont be missing anything. ;)

Its inmportant to check the forum not only because there are ic announcement, but also because all important OOC/server related announcement are made here.

Yeah sure, I try my best but this forums is way too big for me to do that.
Would feel too much like work for me to try to fish out every post that could possibly relate to my characters.
I just want to log in NWN, play and relax.

That's my five cents. I still think its a good idea to post announcements and posters in game. Cheers.

Iluvatar

  • Community Council
  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • I'm one of Strahd's subjects
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2018, 08:44:21 PM »
If you click on Show unread posts since last visit. near your avatar when you'reon the forum, you'll see all unread topic, as for the the one calling you to your character, if it has something to do with the Vallaki guards it'll be obvious the thread is the one used by the guards to summon and post wanted poster. Same for Dementlieu and other places. Those thread are generally easy to spot.

I'll admit we have a big and very active forum that said.

~ Iluvatar / Iluvatar-2 / Iluvatar NCE

Arawn

  • CC, Developers, and
  • Dungeon Masters
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 9096
  • Gwrandewch ar y cwn.
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2018, 09:04:11 PM »
There aren t any explicit rules stating peoples need to put posters in game. Its a recommendation more than anything. The closest thing to a rule is that anything antagonistic is expected to be posted in game as well. Just have a look at the your unread post a few time a week and you wont be missing anything. ;)

Its inmportant to check the forum not only because there are ic announcement, but also because all important OOC/server related announcement are made here.

It is a very strong recommendation, as what is and isn't an adversarial poster is up to the DM Team to judge and we can and do consider it avoiding consequences if they are and you don't post them in-game.
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

BraveSirRobin

  • Professional Blue-Coat
  • Gendarmerie
  • Dark Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 815
  • "One's own thoughts are his only prison"
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2018, 09:50:38 PM »
There aren t any explicit rules stating peoples need to put posters in game. Its a recommendation more than anything. The closest thing to a rule is that anything antagonistic is expected to be posted in game as well. Just have a look at the your unread post a few time a week and you wont be missing anything. ;)

Its inmportant to check the forum not only because there are ic announcement, but also because all important OOC/server related announcement are made here.

It is a very strong recommendation, as what is and isn't an adversarial poster is up to the DM Team to judge and we can and do consider it avoiding consequences if they are and you don't post them in-game.


Well..  That begs the question, is a Vallaki Garda Wanted Summons considered an adverserial posting, if it's not directly on the front door of Vallaki? I.E., not on the Bounty and Comissions Board. Similarly speaking, are Gendarmerie Nationale Summons considered an adversial posting, if it's not posted within Port-a-Lucine proper?


Note: I'm not asking that they be -- I really think that just adds another layer of work Guard players have to do, for every reset, forever.. On top of writing reports and managing their faction. I'd rather prefer they didn't, but it's a question worth asking.

RickDeckard

  • Bastion Raines #1 Fanboy
  • Vallaki Guards
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2018, 09:54:52 PM »
It is far too much busy work to write in game posters for summons or bounties.

I play a Garda, we already have plenty of "paperwork" on the forums to do. Takes five minutes to check the forums.

Arawn

  • CC, Developers, and
  • Dungeon Masters
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 9096
  • Gwrandewch ar y cwn.
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2018, 10:04:04 PM »
No, Garda don't have to post bounties IC.

That said, it would be cool if they did; alternatively, I might dig out one of my old ideas and see if we can't solve this through the magic of technology.
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.

Jeebs

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 10:04:32 PM »
The thing is, not everyone uses the forums. Hell, my first two or three years playing on POTM, I didn't even have a forum account. Wasn't until I had a problem that I needed to request DM assistance for that I made one. I can also see how it could easily get buried in a slew of posts. If you're not checking the forums every day, you'll wind up with pages and pages of unread posts when you do log in. I'm not saying there should be a rule stating that you need to put up wanted posters in-game, but it's certainly something I would recommend doing whenever possible. I never played a Garda, so I won't pretend to understand how much stuff you guys need to deal with but you could always just copy the text from the forum post and paste it to the paper in-game to expedite the creation of these posters... or hire a peasant to make and hang up your posters. Create some Barovian RP out of the deal.

Super Sugar

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • For the Avariel!
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 10:21:11 PM »
The thing is, not everyone uses the forums. Hell, my first two or three years playing on POTM, I didn't even have a forum account. Wasn't until I had a problem that I needed to request DM assistance for that I made one. I can also see how it could easily get buried in a slew of posts. If you're not checking the forums every day, you'll wind up with pages and pages of unread posts when you do log in. I'm not saying there should be a rule stating that you need to put up wanted posters in-game, but it's certainly something I would recommend doing whenever possible. I never played a Garda, so I won't pretend to understand how much stuff you guys need to deal with but you could always just copy the text from the forum post and paste it to the paper in-game to expedite the creation of these posters... or hire a peasant to make and hang up your posters. Create some Barovian RP out of the deal.

You actually do not need a forum account to check the wanted thread.  I think the threads with wanted posters are the best methods that the domains have to post the notices.  Perhaps there could be some better communication in-game to ask players to check the wanted threads often.

You do not need to log in to see them.
I like my sugar with coffee and cream.
 - Imrae Zauviir

RickDeckard

  • Bastion Raines #1 Fanboy
  • Vallaki Guards
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 10:53:07 PM »
...understand how much stuff you guys need to deal with but you could always just copy the text from the forum post and paste it to the paper in-game to expedite the creation of these posters... or hire a peasant to make and hang up your posters. Create some Barovian RP out of the deal.

Most Barovians I see are in the Garda, I've tried hiring outlanders for paperwork tasks but due to IC reasons that is no longer allowed. I am also very bad at making posters in the game. All you need to do is check the relevant threads related to the Garda/Gendarmerie found here for summons, bounties etc:

https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?board=31.0


Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3296
  • When all other lights go out
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 11:00:57 PM »
Regarding this specific behavior, PCs wouldn't be omniscient anyway.

Can't the PC simply RP, "I didn't see your notice until now and complied immediately when I did"?

And the garda RP the response IC.

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

BraveSirRobin

  • Professional Blue-Coat
  • Gendarmerie
  • Dark Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 815
  • "One's own thoughts are his only prison"
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 11:20:05 PM »
Regarding this specific behavior, PCs wouldn't be omniscient anyway.

Can't the PC simply RP, "I didn't see your notice until now and complied immediately when I did"?

And the garda RP the response IC.

While true, there's no way to prove or disprove what they've seen on a forum. It's assumed if they can reply or see the Market Tab, or whatever other announcement there is, that they have an equal chance to see whatever is coming from the Garda. They've just elected not to pay attention to it, or worse, saw it and decided to cheese an excuse. There's no real way to enforce, prove, or disprove where someone has been and what they can see. Thus, you have to just take it ICly on how lenient you're willing to be, and how genuine their reasoning is.

I.E. Outlander Bob got summoned. Outlander bob is basically always around Barovia, or out adventuring. He comes back often enough. He's probably liable to see it, there's no reason he shouldn't.

In addition, Dementlieuse Paul got summoned. He is rarely in Barovia, leaves Dementlieu to go adventuring, then returns to the Mist Camps or Port-a-Lucine daily. He might have entered Vallaki twice or so in the last month, and when he does go to Barovia, he generally goes to the Village of Barovia because that's where he grinds.

Garda Domn Domnescu sees this, and goes, 'Well, Outlander Bob is here like, three or four times every week, and I rarely see Dementlieuse Paul. I'd be willing to wager Dementlieuse Paul is just ignorant of it, and his habits support that excuse. Outlander Bob however, has little excuse not to be paying attention to the noticeboards of the municipality he most often frequents. I don't buy it.'

Iluvatar

  • Community Council
  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
  • I'm one of Strahd's subjects
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2018, 11:49:21 PM »
Regarding this specific behavior, PCs wouldn't be omniscient anyway.

Can't the PC simply RP, "I didn't see your notice until now and complied immediately when I did"?

And the garda RP the response IC.

That's probably what I would do or at least something along that. What BraveSirRobin say is true, there is no way to know if the other player is telling the truth. But I have nothing to lose to give the other player a chance if its the first time it happens. I've played a guard for a long time and something I learned during my time there, is that making it fun for all involved party is just as important as avoiding meta gaming and OOC stuff. This would be a very very minor OOC thing and it doesn't hurt anyone either. Obviously, if the player tries that a second and a third time, then yes, I'll probably do what BraveSirRobin suggested.

~ Iluvatar / Iluvatar-2 / Iluvatar NCE

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3296
  • When all other lights go out
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2018, 01:00:10 AM »
There's no real way to enforce, prove, or disprove where someone has been and what they can see. Thus, you have to just take it ICly on how lenient you're willing to be, and how genuine their reasoning is.

Yes.

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Silas Rotleaf

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 932
  • Space cat!
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 10:16:22 AM »
What I have seen people do which I kind of like the style of when addressing this is they will IC tell you about it being on the notice board if somebody (who is a PC) has a summons or a bounty on their head in the form of gossip or conversation, then in an OOC PM or tell they point you to the announcements section of the forum.  It's not the most elegant but is more streamlined than just expecting people to magically or intuitively know at times.

Blight

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2018, 04:33:55 PM »
It's important to remember that Vallaki is barely a blip on the radar. It's not even the capital city of Barovia. It's a small, unimportant fishing village of 3000 people.

We have to remember that bounties in Vallaki may not necessarily even apply to the whole of Barovia. The Burgomaster of the Village may not even seem it worth her time to enforce Vallaki area bounties if she so chooses.

The assumption that ANYBODY who isnt explicitly a regular resident of Vallaki would see a bounty notice is ludicrous at best. The majority of people who go near Vallaki is usually reserved to the western outskirts and rarely nearing the walls. The church wont have wanted bounties posted, the only possibility is the Ladies Rest.

In my honest opinion, Bounties should not be permitted to be posted on the forum, because it endorses this mentality that the reach of the vallaki guard is nigh omnipotent and all-encompassing.

It allows for bounty hunters from wherever in the core to chase bounties without ever knowing about them IG, because it assumes that those posts are IC and as such, information gained within the confines of the rules. They don't even have to go to Barovia! If we were to remain consistent and fair, the same logic would apply to a person's detriment as well. A wanted person would "always" have to know that they had a bounty should the player read the posting on the forums, something that is simply not enforceable.

Both circumstances err in favor of the Guard, and walks a dangerous line that relies solely on player honesty to enforce what otherwise could be metagaming in a situation that has the power to close characters for good.

I'm not in favor, myself and think that Bounties should have to be set in game via @write or by letter.

Sure, there are resets, but clearly by the inevitable regular return of useless crap like hood checks and "Get off the Count's Road" nonsense, having the guard flex their muscles by doing something actually useful like posting bounties is a much more valuable activity to spend their time.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 04:37:06 PM by Blight »
Just another lesson from the School of Hard Knocks... PHD!

RickDeckard

  • Bastion Raines #1 Fanboy
  • Vallaki Guards
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2018, 10:24:45 PM »
It's important to remember that Vallaki is barely a blip on the radar. It's not even the capital city of Barovia. It's a small, unimportant fishing village of 3000 people.

We have to remember that bounties in Vallaki may not necessarily even apply to the whole of Barovia. The Burgomaster of the Village may not even seem it worth her time to enforce Vallaki area bounties if she so chooses.

Bounties in Vallaki don't apply to the rest of Barovia yes, but I can speak from experience where the Garda have mutually cooperated with bounties wanted in other jurisdictions or vice versa. There are two Garda factions, one in Krofburg and one in Vallaki so any other bounties in different jurisdictions are set by DM's, so you know you messed up when you did that.

The assumption that ANYBODY who isnt explicitly a regular resident of Vallaki would see a bounty notice is ludicrous at best. The majority of people who go near Vallaki is usually reserved to the western outskirts and rarely nearing the walls. The church wont have wanted bounties posted, the only possibility is the Ladies Rest.

In my honest opinion, Bounties should not be permitted to be posted on the forum, because it endorses this mentality that the reach of the vallaki guard is nigh omnipotent and all-encompassing.

It allows for bounty hunters from wherever in the core to chase bounties without ever knowing about them IG, because it assumes that those posts are IC and as such, information gained within the confines of the rules. They don't even have to go to Barovia! If we were to remain consistent and fair, the same logic would apply to a person's detriment as well. A wanted person would "always" have to know that they had a bounty should the player read the posting on the forums, something that is simply not enforceable.

Bounties are rarely hunted and the rules are in place for a reason in regards to PvP and fighting in front of NPC's, the simple solution to not getting a bounty is don't break the law or hide your crimes better. It doesn't take long to look on the forums, the server should not cater to people who do not go on the forums when more often than not they should be. Players in the Garda give leeway, least you think everyone in the Garda wants to gank someone who so much as sneezed at their direction?

Both circumstances err in favor of the Guard, and walks a dangerous line that relies solely on player honesty to enforce what otherwise could be metagaming in a situation that has the power to close characters for good.

Then report people who metagame or break the rules, take responsibility.

I'm not in favor, myself and think that Bounties should have to be set in game via @write or by letter.

Sure, there are resets, but clearly by the inevitable regular return of useless crap like hood checks and "Get off the Count's Road" nonsense, having the guard flex their muscles by doing something actually useful like posting bounties is a much more valuable activity to spend their time.

Hood checks aren't a formal policy and loitering on the Count's road is no longer an offense, refer to the updated laws.

And no, enjoying RP and catching bad guys is much more enjoyable than mindless paperwork that is time consuming, it should add to the flavour not be the only solution.

Purist

  • Vallaki Guards
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1729
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 08:44:59 AM »
It's important to remember that Vallaki is barely a blip on the radar. It's not even the capital city of Barovia. It's a small, unimportant fishing village of 3000 people.

We have to remember that bounties in Vallaki may not necessarily even apply to the whole of Barovia. The Burgomaster of the Village may not even seem it worth her time to enforce Vallaki area bounties if she so chooses.

The assumption that ANYBODY who isnt explicitly a regular resident of Vallaki would see a bounty notice is ludicrous at best. The majority of people who go near Vallaki is usually reserved to the western outskirts and rarely nearing the walls. The church wont have wanted bounties posted, the only possibility is the Ladies Rest.

In my honest opinion, Bounties should not be permitted to be posted on the forum, because it endorses this mentality that the reach of the vallaki guard is nigh omnipotent and all-encompassing.

It allows for bounty hunters from wherever in the core to chase bounties without ever knowing about them IG, because it assumes that those posts are IC and as such, information gained within the confines of the rules. They don't even have to go to Barovia! If we were to remain consistent and fair, the same logic would apply to a person's detriment as well. A wanted person would "always" have to know that they had a bounty should the player read the posting on the forums, something that is simply not enforceable.

Both circumstances err in favor of the Guard, and walks a dangerous line that relies solely on player honesty to enforce what otherwise could be metagaming in a situation that has the power to close characters for good.

I'm not in favor, myself and think that Bounties should have to be set in game via @write or by letter.

Sure, there are resets, but clearly by the inevitable regular return of useless crap like hood checks and "Get off the Count's Road" nonsense, having the guard flex their muscles by doing something actually useful like posting bounties is a much more valuable activity to spend their time.

Have you ever played a Vallaki Garda? If so, for how long?

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3296
  • When all other lights go out
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2018, 09:13:51 AM »
https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=49928.msg612383#msg612383

Quote
I've played as a Vallaki Guard and held the same belief.

Most of what Blight argues above is addressing a specific mechanic. I think the discussion is more likely to be productive if the focus stays on the mechanic and whether it enhances the game, follows the rules, etc., rather than pitting one type of PC against another or questioning an individual's qualifications to comment.

Blight wrote a substantial post with specific assertions that you have quoted in your response. Are those refutable?

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Alan Hunter

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2018, 09:45:55 AM »
Just an Idea seen this used in some games vut could create a literal bounty board only guarding factions have acess to with a tool that allows them to add and remove bounties ic. Don't believe it be too difficult to do given the skills of our guys. Would also create a board people can check in game.

Not saying anything bad about the forum but we do have several diffrent medium to check on and for most Mmorpg gamers checking the boards are more for the highly involved not the casual. *shrugs* I have had my fair share of bounties and I knew when I started I mostly got word ic or ooc cause I never knew there was a bounty board til some on pointed it out. The forum can get a little clouded when you go digging for information. Even when using search god knows I recall seeong thirty topocs to 1 query after fifteen minutes to find what I was looking for.

And not to be a stick but putting up posters I would consider part of a guard factioning job if they van write... or higher a town crier. Eh possibilities thought vallaki had one of those guys out their recruiting and giving lawful updates forget his name. Ah well, but it is a challenge to determine the risk fo bounty hunting and what information. Had similiar problems with a rumor mongering bounty hunter it just stirred a lot of ooc controversy and eventually lost interest. It is difficult to say how can people find you or know you since we dont have a legitmate disguise system. So it kind of leaves to player honesty and fairness. Meh. *shrug*
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

Legion XXI

  • Community Council
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1540
  • Domn Clancy
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2018, 09:49:47 AM »
They're never going to disallow wanted posters from being posted on the forums.  Not everyone has time to log in every day and run around looking for ingame posters to get communications from the Vallaki Garda in the hopes that some level 2 freedom fighter isn't just running around insta-picking them up for basically no reason.

If we're arguing this on the grounds of Vallaki not being big enough to effectively disseminate information, then I think we should ALSO disallow individual PCs from posting things on the forum.  Or any factions that don't span multiple nations/wide areas of the core.  Because surely, say, the Wayfarer Kingship doesn't have the ability to project more into the world than the whole city and government of Vallaki.  And SURELY any single individual PC or small merchant group can't do it either, if even Vallaki doesn't meet the bar. 

So I guess we can all just move to dropping notices ingame only, and good luck to you if you have to work for a few days and can't get ingame, because that's the only way you're going to be able to find any information.  Does that really sound like an improvement to anyone?

aprogressivist

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4743
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2018, 10:07:12 AM »
Wayfarer Kingship

I now have a mental image of Zephyr Kontos being given a crown, giggling like a schoolboy, then snarling at anyone who tries to take the crown back.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

Alan Hunter

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 349
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2018, 10:12:19 AM »
And what kind of improvements have you suggested? I get it each individual has there own availability and due process. But, I don't think workibg both ends is a fault. Catering to both aspects expands the availability if knowledge even applying a new mechanic of awareness. Frankly, just my opinion maybe, this opens a door to further expand roleplay for guarding factions. Heck I have a garda character and since Im a recruit cant go out much outside the walls with out higher peers wouldn't be difficult. But having a in game board much like the quest bounty boards,a town crier, tasked guards are all expansions.

I mean both sides are right. Some people dont have time or want to bother in the forums, considering tou have to go to a wiki also for some info, can be unappealing. And thr inconvenience od logging in to find certain info when you have no accesa but can get away at work with thr forum. Are both equal tooics.  Really no ones right or wrong on this its all beneficial. But, as the main topic suggests there is an exploit and concern to some of the mechanic its a bit concerning. But, I'm sure I'm just repeating. Any one else got suggestions for this?
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

Audric Lacroix

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Wanted posters in game
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2018, 10:14:33 AM »
His Majesty Kontos. He is prettier than you.