Author Topic: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"  (Read 2586 times)

Edward

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2018, 03:12:13 AM »
They usually aren’t able to carry anything when you kill them.
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Always_a_hero

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2018, 09:49:15 AM »
Coming in at a late point in the conversation, though I don't think both sides of the argument has agreed on anything.

The common ground here is that beating up and killing children is horrible. In game, when coming into an area to do your bounty-hunter things (pretty much the common reason why you'd be traveling at night in Port's Ouvriers), a PC's faced against the same moral issue. There are many ways to see it, but here's a couple:

Seeing as adventurers comes at night to kill their fellow neighbors hunted by the Council, people have no choice but to be suspicious about travelers at night, since they'd most probably be there to kill you. This could be compared to the Barovian ways of categorizing adventurers as "outlanders", except that in this case we are to crazy ones we're calling them.

[A waif arrives in his home, bringing the plates and jewels left on a recently killed cleric, or only what wasn't already looted] "Hey dad! Look what I've got! Those jewels must be worth enough solars for two days food for mom and-" [the father turns his head with a stern expression, motioning the kid to give him the jewel. Hopeful, the waif goes to give what he found to hia father, before getting smacked on the cheek] "That's really all ya could've gotten you useless piece of-"

And I'll stop there. But from my point of view, that would be what everyday looks like for those kids. Hopefully the father won't spend all the gold on booze though. The point I'm trying to make, as some others have tried before, is that to the people in Port's community are left with an unfair way of living. That you give them gold and pity during the day, they'd probably think you're a fool wasting money, or that you have stuff worth stealing.

Waifs represent a stage of life the bandits has to go through before having a bounty on their head. Bounty the noble crew chose for them to have by making them live in poverty, because that is the price for their luxury.

So I'll asking you something for them: "Why the hell are you in my Quartier in the middle of the night?" The answer would most probably be: "To kill your neighbor, for those with the gold offers a reward on his/her head." Would we be doing a waif favor in not killign them, or are just waiting for their heads to grow into a more juicy reward?

So to answer, I find the children's reaction rather appropriate. This whole thing? Truly... Dement ;)
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BahamutZ3RO

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2018, 10:38:03 AM »
So, here's my take on it.

If you don't wanna kill kids, don't.

They're not a dangerous enemy by any means, you don't have to attack them, you could even turn on subdual and punch them out if you're really a stickler. Frankly, I think a good (or even a neutral) aligned character should feel bad about killing anyone, not just a kid, and it's those "is this okay" moments that make for good RP.
: )


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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2018, 12:28:53 PM »

  I thought they -were- already more cowardly, as in the past I recall them typically running from me more often than not.
Perhaps they view Iridni as the mother they never had, and thus seek to punish her for the life they were denied. You see- perhaps   you are not giving the ai enough  credit? With deep seeded psychological recognition and patterns able to develop naturally and systemically.

  I, too, have often roleplayed not  killing these waifs. As, more often than not, they are no real threat to me, and the idea is they are vengeful for killing their providers and so on, and so forth- but I -have- also roleplayed tucking these children in for the night- with ruthless subdual dominion. Goodnight, little angel, sleep tight. And if they can't read after, its not like they could before!
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Mailbox-2100

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2018, 12:49:25 PM »
  That makes the slavers -extra- vile. That they can do that to the children. Every gang follows suit. Maybe even the waifs are all guilders, hand raised to perfection (despite the limitations of children, in general).

  I tend to enjoy creating lore for existing mechanics. But I'm also not against change- to reflect IC actions especially. Something like this could be changed to reflect PC initiatives, and I know there's been many at Port in particular. Isn't there a PC orphanage? etc, I think there's plenty of precedence to change this mechanic, or to simply adapt a suitable world narrative until it does. Or ignore it, but I prefer to adapt it.

Always_a_hero

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2018, 01:34:19 PM »
As far as my experience goes, I know very little to no example of PC influence on the setting itself, beside gravestones and guild bases. The mentioned orphanage I believe I've only heard of once or twice in my two whole years here, and that with a character in a Dementlieuse plot faction, including what I search on the forum on a daily basis.

In general, I find this server more oriented on the influence the environment has on the characters rather than the other way around. I can only imagine running an orphanage would require rl time investment alongside DM support to have an influence. The moment there stops to be an interaction coming from said orphanage owners, it's effect will fade over time until it's like it doesn't or never existed.

I wouldn't think change is a bad thing, but I think the way used to keep the mood down is to keep the setting as depressing as it's "supposed" to be, and keeps the situation problematic. As long as there's a conflict there, the more people will remain interested.
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Crimson Shuriken

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2018, 01:35:36 PM »
If you have the character that would have their heartstrings pulled by the plight of these children then they should use their power and influence and wealth to affect a change, bring more awareness and petition the council of brilliance to allow you to fund a shelter etc. Or just host fundraiser events with the social elite. Many possibilities that are in-character, immersive, empowering of others, and off-the-beaten-tread of gameplay. Anything that can be done IC, should be done IC. There is almost nothing that cannot be done, or at least attempted to be done.


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Crimson Shuriken

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2018, 01:38:16 PM »
As far as my experience goes, I know very little to no example of PC influence on the setting itself, beside gravestones and guild bases.

Ask yourself though whether you have seen any player-characters devote the time and energy to affect change much either. The truth is, the development staff and DM team may not become smitten with your idea. You won't know until you try. But the gathering momentum, the other characters you bring along on your crusade, the general rumor-mongering or gossiping in restaurants. All of that is the effect on the world that matters anyway. Its creating content for all to enjoy.


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emptyanima

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2018, 03:21:37 PM »
Just briefly jumping in here to address the PC orphanage comment, as this was a long-term goal for one of my Port-a-Lucine-based PCs.

The obstacles she faced were not only environmental, but driven by roleplay; her initial bid to apply for one of the vacant buildings in the Marchand or Ouvrier was met with a sudden 'requirement' to front a vast sum (in excess of 500,000 solars), and when she pressed this, it emerged that she was being all but denied outright due to rumors circulating about her relationship with a perceived caliban, which had been started by another PC. She (perhaps unwisely) called the clerk out on this and was thrown out of the Palais.

In fairness, that same PC also spent much of her time in Port-a-Lucine being tormented by a high-ranking member of the nobility, and PCs and NPCs worked to discredit her character as well as her accusations in their unwillingness (or fear) to believe her, so it was in keeping with the story.

So, while she was never able to see the orphanage come to fruition herself, for several reasons, that's not to say that others haven't tried or that others can do the same thing - they may simply find themselves struggling against the powers that be in Dementlieu if they challenge the status quo!

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2018, 05:08:35 PM »

 I remember a charity gala, too. :D

emptyanima

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2018, 05:35:01 PM »
So do I!

Hopefully my post didn't come off as a 'don't try', I was more trying to explain why one case of it didn't. :)

Silas Rotleaf

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2018, 07:25:38 PM »
Hey those kids started it!

Crimson Shuriken

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2018, 10:48:15 PM »

 I remember a charity gala, too. :D

I do speak from experience, Tarokka's and my PCs once held a gala with the stated purpose to provide proceeds to the unfortunate in the Quartier Ouvrier. Even though those two particular player-characters did not give a damn about those children, their fake crusade actually mobilized a decent chunk of characters. Its all beneficial, no matter the motivation or purpose or regardless of who the actors are, its just beneficial to have characters doing things. It may only affect that particular era of PotM, but that's not too unlike real life. What is big news one day is not the next sometimes.


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Darkside of Heaven

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2018, 04:08:53 AM »
500,000 isn't alot....
Maybe if a PC racked up $5,000,000 to throw away into an orphanage that might prove change since the amount of playtime and RP that would have come with getting to that point. You can net 1,000,000 in a single player run gala five of them and the months it took of both in and out of character work that could be worthy of the reward you wished which is no longer having waifs appear at night.

But that's up to development and DM team and how bad do you really want it.

Nemesis 24

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2018, 04:20:16 AM »
500,000 is a lot depending on the character.  There is a gigantic difference between characters in how much money they can make, and how often, depending on what they are and build wise.  Also the concept as well.  I spent a -very- long time earning money for the same orphanage project, the gala and other such things, we managed to get up to 600,000 with some serious effort and people literally giving away everything they had, including my own character.  Sadly, it didn't work out, but that's Dementlieu for you.  You could pour 5,000,000, 10,000,000, or 100,000,000 into something - money won't solve a situation.  Experience and observation shows that unless you are a noble you have little to no chance of headway at all - and even then it will be a serious struggle, with no guarantee of success whatsoever.  It's just how the place is, its *meant* to drive you crazy, and the fact you seem to be pushing water uphill with a toothpick to get anywhere is a big part of that.  But long story short, it takes more than just throwing cash at the situation to fix it.

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2018, 04:34:01 AM »
To respond to the original point, Waifs already have a negative morale modifier, meaning they are more prone to flee. Their morale modifier is actually already lower than minks.

I find this hilarious, because it makes the Good Aligned people killing Waifs even -more- despicable. Killing children who are literally, more terrified then quaking woodland critters. Poor wee things.

I like the waifs, I would honestly bump their loot, maybe have them carry something mildly valuable like a gem, or opium (employed by local gangs?) to raise the incentive to kill them. Really draw out the evil in people you know.

PlatointheCave

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2018, 04:52:41 AM »
Perhaps Jonathan Swift's Modest Proposal for preventing the children of the poor from being a burden could be implemented to solve the problem of food scarcity in the city as well as the waif problem?

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2018, 08:06:28 AM »
Perhaps Jonathan Swift's Modest Proposal for preventing the children of the poor from being a burden could be implemented to solve the problem of food scarcity in the city as well as the waif problem?

We could start with a lottery...

Iridni Ren

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Re: "But even if he has been wicked...think how young he is"
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2018, 09:22:52 AM »
To respond to the original point, Waifs already have a negative morale modifier, meaning they are more prone to flee. Their morale modifier is actually already lower than minks.

I find this hilarious, because it makes the Good Aligned people killing Waifs even -more- despicable. Killing children who are literally, more terrified then quaking woodland critters. Poor wee things.

I like the waifs, I would honestly bump their loot, maybe have them carry something mildly valuable like a gem, or opium (employed by local gangs?) to raise the incentive to kill them. Really draw out the evil in people you know.

Regardless of their morale modifier, this is not how they behave. For that matter and as I believe it was Grendel who pointed out, I've never seen a mink run. If I recall correctly, minks in fact go into rages.

The behavior that caused me to start this thread was having a waif chase my PC into a building.

Rats, OTOH, rarely ever bother Iridni.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 09:42:38 AM by Iridni Ren »

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