Author Topic: Jail Time and Punishments the Requiem (a.k.a Part 2)  (Read 1157 times)

Alan Hunter

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Jail Time and Punishments the Requiem (a.k.a Part 2)
« on: October 23, 2018, 06:00:34 PM »
First and foremost apologies to any who may not wish this topic recited or may feel uncomfortable in its return. But both as a player and a former DM, not to Ravenloft, I feel like I should offer my two cents and some advice to my fellow Criminal antagonists as well as those unfortunately following the alignments of their characters. With that said constructive criticism and suggestions is important. Otherwise we have a he said she said battle and I think the topic before this one kind of ended that way. Foremost if some ones having an issue have a solution coming in with out one tends to leave matters messy. Mind you I have no idea what went on ooc in the last topic frankly not here for that. Now then to the suggestions and advices! Mind you I will use some of the posts from the last topic to disseminate information that will help you, the Antagonist, get a better idea of what to do when and if you find yourself in jail or punished in game. I can say given the death of my character recently and my experiences with the Jail circumstance I can sympathize both to the antagonist and their victims having been on both sides. With out further comment here we go!


Most Importantly> Are you the Antagonist? Are you the one to poke the good guys, screw everybody, or just simply cause mischief and mayhem.  Then know no matter what you do be ware that there are always consequences. Heck even the protagonists have consequences when taking on the bad guy. Knowing these and their fine borders can help you help them know when to back off or when you need to get your hinny out of dodge. Remember Ravenloft is a Gothic Horror this isn't going to be cute and cuddlely but shouldn't make you uncomfortable jail. Both Player and DMs are humans and reasoning to talk out situations and ask questions can help, if not getting answers or some one you feel isn't giving you constructive feed back find a Mediator. Never hurts to meet half way. That said Read I am Strahd or download the Audio book. Barovia ain't the cute and cuddlely for crime or have a real sense of justice. Strahd is the land. He is the law! and He is one mean, militaristic, corporal punishment, individual, and his people know this and like wise. So expect this. If a scene is uncomfortable, talk!, can always rearrange the descriptions so things aren't uncomfortable. Be aware of yer role play enviroment it helps alot to know what to expect and what you can do.

Protaganists> Not above being equally punished like Antagonists. You as the Antagonists are responsbile good guys don't prosper, that they get what they deserve, Good guys die young and evil lives forever. Just cause your jailed it isn't the end! Be creative give those Protaganists a challenge! Figure out a Jail Break! Get a Hard Life and talk to fellow prisoners! Hail a Dm for some Rp time if the got time! Heck call on some Garda who are dying for Garda Rp! Remember its up to you! Antagonistic Power is yours! Get creative! Make resistance, Icly, not oocly!

Constructive Criticism!> Telling an Antagonist to not do bad things is like saying "Don't choose Evil Alignment!" its there use it! Help an Antagonist out and develop that rivalistic bond between protagonist and antagonist. Sitting their griping in Jail or saying don't do bad things if yer not willing just kills the special bond between the two. Protagonist need and an Antagonist and vice versa. With out that rivalry there's no story, no story means no fun, no fun means boring role play! Were all here on a big ole table of table topping make some plans offer advice! Constructive criticism goes a logn way in making both sides think. One sided arguements are simple just that one side, its boring, lets come up with something!

Enforcing the Punishments> You and yer Garda 101! Get to knwo your Garda their not dms, their not average players, their there to enforce not just the laws of the land but immerse you in the land of Barovia. This goes for any other region you may be inhabiting or roaming in. Be a leader talk with yer fellow player and develop an immersive Protaganist/Antagonist relation. Remember on either side of this table we are seeking role play fullfillment. Never hurts to talk ooc, please use whisper!, and figure things out make choices suggestions. The experience shouldn't be debilitating to your character but may be the drive for them to achieve something more in their Antagonistic career. Just remember any action gets a reaction. Yer job is not to be caught! Once you commit to a descision go with it and start working around it! Diversity only comes for those who step up and shut up! So grab yer lubs beat that antagonist! And let the antagonist prepare revengeance! Is a two way street!

Jail Time> You Been caught! The Suck has occured! But, you as the Antagonist aren't down yet! What can you accomplish in yer time in Jail? Well yer alone? Discord, Forum, or hit that whisper/dm channel! Oppurtunity is only limited in yer enthusiasm to get some one to develop that story. Don't expect anyone to do it for you! Do it yourself! Build that jail time to something memorable! Snag a Discord buddy see who wants to have some fun! Hit the Forum and develop some of those great Biographies and Whispers Around the Fire! Optiumize yer options and deveop your story! Do them emote push ups and get the Hard Life! Develop some in jail connections! Plot yer Escape! or Chide a Garda in the cells so you can gumf him in the No-No Sacks! Literally you have options! Pick the Cell Lock! Break it down! Uncuff yourself and Bluff yer way to freedom! Snag the Key! Solid Snake with a Barrel! Or my favorite Runaway like a Little Barovian Girl screaming while you leave the Enforcers eating yer dust!

<Jail Time Suggestions> Would love to see an implimentation of Dex, Str, Open Lock, Slieght of Hand, to see if people can break out of shackles it would leave escapees with a variety of role play and mechanical choices. Not like in this gothic horror times anything is kept to code or maintenance anyways :3

New Character Smell!> Jail Time is New Character building time! Prepare for the Worst! If yer character is worm food consider these notorious options! Time for a new character you learned maybe Antagonizing isn't yer thing, try for an AMPC nothing says screw dying I'm Evil I live forever and have a sound reason to come back as something from the Mist to exact yer revenge!, Rehash/Rethink new Antagonist learn from yer mistakes and learn from yer experiences how else does a career criminal grow? Luck, Opportunity, and Experience my friends!

Unconstructive posts and criticisms> If you got nothing to say nicely don't say it! First and foremost put yerself in the shoes of others. I know this may be thrown back at me but my aim isn't that I assure you. This only causes riling and only makes the situation worst. If yer in a seat of power, a community person, veteran player yer not only obligated yer empowered to help newer players and new characters. You yourself were in that seat and with the knowledge you have you can spare a few minutes to help out. Don't pass judgements if your not even going to help out. That in itself is a contradiction to the actions of judging others with out helping. Don't do it! Its bad!



All right well hope this assists a little bit. I'm not here to pucker up or cause people to puck up. Just applying my two cents wanted or not and hoping in the long run it assists in some variance or way. If people wish to elaborate or have more details suggestions than what I posted then by all means. If your going to argue and get ornery well I can't stop you. You are your own adult. Just don't expect me to react to that cliché dramatization and what have you. Ain't I a stinker! :3 But genuine constructive criticism is welcome. I don't mind sound reason to judgement and if I need to be correct by all means please do so, reasonable like an adult, and I will more than apologize for any discourtesy I may have accidentally stumbled myself upon. If the topic must moved or locked by all means. If a Dm feels this information may be useful and wishes to removes some the little tid bits for clarity do so. Anyways my peeps love, peace, and chicken grease!


Sincerely, your Friendly Neighborhood Antagonist
"For Evil to win is for good men to do nothing."

Destinysdesire

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Re: Jail Time and Punishments the Requiem (a.k.a Part 2)
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 10:24:03 PM »
As the OP of the original topic this is related to, I think this is personally the most constructive feedback from a player I have read honestly. I thank you for making this post and honestly making some of the suggestions you have, I am gonna answer a few of these directly.

1. Are you the Antagonist - Honestly, no. Markus was never actually meant as an antagonist. He actually started as a LG Paladin and having been away for 3 RL years, I forgot a lot of what happened to him and the fact he had a mass OCR issue. Causing him to kill Radu as there was no way to escape him at the time. Literally this happened within 20 minutes of my return to the server. I know many judge me as an antagonist, but really, Markus just has piss poor luck.

2. I wouldn't honestly call Markus a protagonist either, more someone caught in the middle with really really bad luck. Though honestly these points do give a very good ideal of the expectations of both areas.

3. Constructive Criticism: This post, I find you hit the nail on the head, sorry, I find most crap like that to be a form of bullying when it comes to "If you don't like it, don't be evil" Its very discouraging to play a character when they have OOCly defined you as a person that shouldn't be playing a concept because you don't like something. Its also very discouraging to be in a community where having a difference of opinion, merits them to have the right to attack you and knock you down. If things were perfect, suggestions wouldn't be asked for by the DMs and Admins, and the complaints that people say keep coming up, wouldn't keep coming up. Just cause something worked for ten years, doesn't mean it continues working forever, change is a good thing.

4. Enforcing Punishments: I found the players of the Garda to be really great people that I did speak to consistently in PMs, I found they were very understanding of my frustrations and even though they were more limited then they liked (which perhaps is something that needs looking at) they tried hard to make things work for all of us.

5. Jail Time: This is something I stand behind in regards to the OOC insanity, DMs during my play time have rarely seemed online, so could not and have not caught them so far for anything ( nothing against DMs as I know they have their own life to deal with ), Discord buddies I don't really have since I am newly back after 3 years, Journal entries, well you dont have your journal so thats sort of meta ICly in my opinion ( perhaps the Garda could permit the Journal tossed in the cell?) Escape really isn't an option at this point in time from everything I have seen without direct DM presence. The shackles IMO are extremely OP'd for prisoners, reducing everything that could be considered useful to such to a point where its practically meaningless. You are stuck in these shackles from the time your arrested, till your release, meaning there is never a time when you have any chance to develop an escape plot. (Again, perhaps something to consider for change?)

5b. - I would love these to be implemented, as well as shackles are automatically removed when your locked in a cell. Wanna try to bareknuckle fight your way out of the jail when the Garda comes to get you? Oh wait, you can't because the shackles make you weaker then a six week old kitten. Loss of RP potential there IMO.

6. New Character Smell: Again, a nice set of suggestions here, thankfully Markus is not yet gone, but its things to consider.

7. Yes, again please, community is supposed to support and encourage one another to become a better player, not knock them down the moment you feel challenged or butt hurt over a comment or a post. (This includes me). We don't know whats going on behind a computer screen, why a player struggles, why they are having a hard time. Rather then post something snarky ( well maybe no one wants to raise your character, ever think of that) Yeah...that line was used on me...not really creative and honestly, just makes me OOCly not want to know the player as clearly they consider themselves better then everyone else here (Yes, this is really the opinion I got of the player that made that post, its not a nice one to get for a player, but well, being newly back, thats exactly what you the player made me think and feel). Instead, reach out to the player, ask if they are on Discord and want someone to talk to or vent to, find out why they are struggling and learn about the player, this doesn't have to be done just by CC either, the average player or even DMs can do this to try and help. Hurting other players does not make a community.

Thank you again for the constructive criticism. You hit a lot of points on the head here and I think it will help a lot of people/players understand things. Even me at this point.

HM01

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Re: Jail Time and Punishments the Requiem (a.k.a Part 2)
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 10:55:01 PM »
Quote
In this year, the year of the Barovian Calendar seven hundred and seventy-three, I, Simona Grecu, clerk to the Burgomaster, by the command of Nadia Ionelus, his Steward, do set down on paper those customs and usages of the people of Barovia and those laws decreed by the Burgomaster in the name of the Count of Barovia, Strahd XI von Zarovich, whose servant he is, as are regularly referenced in the present day. While I do not deny the existence of still other ancient customs and laws that may yet be used in pleading before the Burgomaster or in interpreting his will, to properly compile every custom of this land and city, and every edict spoken by a Burgomaster, would be practically impossible, as every day new customs are established and new edicts made.

Should a man stand accused of a crime that was not witnessed by a servant of the Burgomaster, let him produce witnesses to swear to his innocence, and let witnesses be produced by the accuser to swear against him, and should he succeed thus in producing them, let the Burgomaster, his Steward, or an appointed officer decide as to the man's guilt or innocence, and let him be judged accordingly. Should the man not dispute the facts of the crime but rather dispute that his actions violated the Burgomaster's law, let him stand before the Burgomaster, his Steward, or an appointed officer, and demonstrate by usage and custom that he should be placed at liberty and, should he succeed thus in his arguments, let him be so placed.

Should a man believe himself slighted, dispossessed, or damaged by another, let him place the matter before the Burgomaster, the Burgomaster's Steward, or an appointed officer, and let him argue by usage and custom that he should have restitution, and let the accused argue against him, and let judgment be made according to the merits of the arguments.

Here follow the LAWS:

1. Let it be known by all that the boundaries of the city of Vallaki and its territory are marked to the west by the banks of the river Luna, to the east by the easternmost farm in the farmland beyond the city, to the north by the great stone on the north-east bank of Lake Zarovich, and to the south by the first bridge on the path to Krofburg.

2. Let it be known by all that the rights to tolls upon the Old Svalich Road within the territory of the city of Vallaki are held in the name of the Count by the Burgomaster and the Burgomaster alone, and only his men and those of the Count may keep order or give commands upon it.

3. Let it be known by all that he who disturbs the Count's peace or interferes with the performance of the duties of the Count’s representatives in Vallaki, including the Burgomaster and his servants, will be punished according to the severity of his offense.

4. Let it be known by all that he who commits assault upon the body of another will be himself harmed twice over according to the severity of his assault. He who commits assault upon the body of a servant of the Burgomaster will be put to death. He who is judged to have committed an assault clearly intended to kill shall be judged guilty of murder.

5. Let it be known by all that he who commits murder will be put to death.

6. Let it be known by all that he who commits rape will be put to death.

7. Let it be known by all that he who commits thievery will be punished according to the scale of his theft; he will additionally make restitution of the full value; if he or his sureties cannot, he will lose a hand. The thief who continues to flout the law of the city of Vallaki will be put to death.

8. Let it be known by all that he who destroys or damages the property of another may be compensated to the full value of the property.

9. Let it be known by all that he who trespasses upon the holding of another will be punished according to the severity of his offense.

10. Let it be known that any merchant selling wares or services, and any mercenary plying his trade, must secure the sanction of the Burgomaster through the Garda. Any who defy this usage will be punished according to the duration and severity of their offense.

11. Let it be known that he who forges or falsifies the seal of the Burgomaster, the seal of the Count, or the coinage of the Domain, shall lose his eyes.

12. Let it be known by all that duels are prohibited except in the presence of three witnesses of good repute.

13. Let it be known by all that no Gundarakite in the territory of the city of Vallaki will carry any arm or weapon, nor undertake any martial endeavor, without leave from the Burgomaster. Any found in violation of this law will be punished according to the severity of their offense. Any who break this law in using a weapon to harm Vallaki or its interests will be put to death. Only weapons which are tools: daggers, shortbows, staves, scythes, sickles, woodaxes, hammers, and flails will be permitted.

14. Let it be known by all that all Gundarakites must at all times speak Balok or the Common Tongue. Any violation of this law will be punished according to the severity and duration of the offense.

These threads pop up all the time, read the laws - and come what may. There really is no need for extensive OOC discussion, because most of these threads pop up from misunderstood things ICLY. Read the laws, understand their consequences, and there honestly should'nt be a whole lot to talk about. If anyone feels their consequences are too harsh, I implore you to think again. This is Ravenloft ~ I've closured my characters for less than people complain about here, if you want to discuss things ~ thats fine, but most of the laws are pretty black and white, and it just seems like everyone wants to water things down.

Read up, and don't expect everything to bend because you've broken something.

//Minor Edit:

This philosophy, and mentality comes from me playing an antagonistic, high level character that I've lost (that in hindsight - I would have done MUCH differently). I don't want to be rude or unproductive, but its up to the player to know what they are signing up for. It can be tough, and taxing to find yourself in the hole, and it may not be what you want..but it is what it is.

If you take the time to truly observe the laws, their function, and their implementation - who knows, you might find it easier to break them.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 11:47:20 PM by HM01 »

Destinysdesire

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Re: Jail Time and Punishments the Requiem (a.k.a Part 2)
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 12:00:41 AM »
While I respect your input HM01, its not really the point of the entire conversation which I think you are missing.

Edward

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Re: Jail Time and Punishments the Requiem (a.k.a Part 2)
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 02:10:55 AM »
But it is.

RickDeckard

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Re: Jail Time and Punishments the Requiem (a.k.a Part 2)
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 03:26:59 AM »
I think everything that can be said about it has been said.  I'm just gonna lock this and we can move on.  Please don't create threads to just immediately continue arguments from a thread that was locked.