Ninjalooting

[harlock]

I've stated this before and i'm bringing it back since server got more people.
I wish for hide and invisibility to fade when you loot. Ninja lootining is the worst form of disrespect to the other players. I loot everythign you get nothing.
That was an issue before switching to enhanced edition but is even worst now that server got 90 people.
In general, every night we got to dungeons and we stick the finger to our @ss because someone has looted it already.
And this time i don't want to hear bullshit like loot resets in 15 minutes, since the same ninja loots again and again, and after him another one and another one.
And the worst thign is that devs look like they support this, always producing new more powerfull hide and ms items.
All ninja's ofcourse will be against and post all stupid excuses they can come up with, but they had their fun for 15 years now, time to stop and let someone else have fun too.
And no the penalty to hide and ms is not enaugh, when yo ucan get 200 hide and 300 move silenlty.
Also this is not discuss thread so i keep it as wish and reasoning behind it, so don't respond to it.

[chuuch1]

Instead of chests, (especially ones at the ends of dungeons) loot should come from the corpses of "bosses"

[Arawn]

I've stated this before and i'm bringing it back since server got more people.
I wish for hide and invisibility to fade when you loot. Ninja lootining is the worst form of disrespect to the other players. I loot everythign you get nothing.
That was an issue before switching to enhanced edition but is even worst now that server got 90 people.
In general, every night we got to dungeons and we stick the finger to our @ss because someone has looted it already.
And this time i don't want to hear bullshit like loot resets in 15 minutes, since the same ninja loots again and again, and after him another one and another one.
And the worst thign is that devs look like they support this, always producing new more powerfull hide and ms items.
All ninja's ofcourse will be against and post all stupid excuses they can come up with, but they had their fun for 15 years now, time to stop and let someone else have fun too.
And no the penalty to hide and ms is not enaugh, when yo ucan get 200 hide and 300 move silenlty.
Also this is not discuss thread so i keep it as wish and reasoning behind it, so don't respond to it.

This does not belong in this thread, which is for system suggestions, not proposed balance changes.

[Chabxxu]

I've stated this before and i'm bringing it back since server got more people.
I wish for hide and invisibility to fade when you loot. Ninja lootining is the worst form of disrespect to the other players. I loot everythign you get nothing.
That was an issue before switching to enhanced edition but is even worst now that server got 90 people.
In general, every night we got to dungeons and we stick the finger to our @ss because someone has looted it already.
And this time i don't want to hear bullshit like loot resets in 15 minutes, since the same ninja loots again and again, and after him another one and another one.
And the worst thign is that devs look like they support this, always producing new more powerfull hide and ms items.
All ninja's ofcourse will be against and post all stupid excuses they can come up with, but they had their fun for 15 years now, time to stop and let someone else have fun too.
And no the penalty to hide and ms is not enaugh, when yo ucan get 200 hide and 300 move silenlty.
Also this is not discuss thread so i keep it as wish and reasoning behind it, so don't respond to it.

Is this the time of the year where we go back and forth about ninjalooting? There is so many false things in what you said that's pretty clear you haven't been playing here long enough. But... it's been a part of the server for years, and its here to stay. If you ain't happy about it, and it's making you want to quit, nothing's holding you back.

Although if you really want to start the 100th debate about ninjalooting, you might want to make a new thread

[harlock]

As you can read, i guess, this is SYSTEM WISHLIST not system discussion, so i'm not debading on anything. First because there is nothing to debade about, i'm having bad expirience because of ninjas and for, reasonable reasons, which are that i clear dungeons and i get my balls in hands for loot, i speak my mind to the Devs asking from them to remove oyu from inbisibility and hide when you loot. If you want to cry about what you read why don't you start another tread instead?

[Iridni Ren]

According to Harlock's profile, he's been playing here since 2009, but yes, this isn't the right thread for the discussion

[Arawn]

Harlock, your tone is out of line; clearly, you’re upset, so you should take a breather before continuing to post.

As I said, that was not the appropriate place for this debate. I’ve moved it here, but let any further discussion continue only with the understanding that the development team considers ninjalooting a valid play style, we have enabled it intentionally, and that we have no intention of changing that stance.

[Nemesis 24]

Probably the only thing wrong with the ninja loot system 'may' (and I firmly emphasise and underline 'may' in this case) be an ignorance on how ninja looting works on this server, and why it is viewed as a valid playstyle.  Simply put, the server is designed to allow it, and has systems in place to make it work.

If a person ninjaloots a dungeon, that loot will reset in fifteen minutes to match the strength of the spawn.  It will not affect the spawn, it won't harm it, it won't weaken it.  But if someone -returns- to the dungeon - be they a ninja looter OR someone who fought through the dungeon a couple of days ago - then the spawn is nuked back to its lowest rating and the loot is also reset.  To prevent this, the server must be reset.

Simply put - dungeons can be run, OR ninjalooted, by a person ONCE PER RESET.  To return to do either before the reset takes place reduces the spawn to base to prevent dungeon camping.  AFAIK.

So, we have a twofold problem.  One, server resets are now far less frequent than they have ever been.  Two, people are not aware that a server reset is what is needed to prevent a spawn reset by going to the dungeon twice in a single reset.  That's much more likely the cause of your grief than ninja looters hitting dungeons just ahead of you.

[Arawn]

But if someone -returns- to the dungeon - be they a ninja looter OR someone who fought through the dungeon a couple of days ago - then the spawn is nuked back to its lowest rating and the loot is also reset.  To prevent this, the server must be reset.

No, this isn’t accurate. Returning to a dungeon after clearing it previously does nothing to the spawn.

[Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex]

Probably the only thing wrong with the ninja loot system 'may' (and I firmly emphasise and underline 'may' in this case) be an ignorance on how ninja looting works on this server

No, this isn’t accurate. Returning to a dungeon after clearing it previously does nothing to the spawn.

:bigthunk:

On a serious note, in my experience as a previous ninja looter who chatted with others of that vocation, myself and several other ninja looters adhered to a rogue's honour code of doing our looting in as nice a way as possible so as not to inconvenience others. I can't speak to the current folks pursuing it but for those that are, I'd recommend taking a little extra step or three for the quality of life of fellow players. Leaving marks at the entrances of dungeons that you're looting that indicate someone is already sneaking around inside or a written note informing people that said dungeon is being delved usually tells them at least to not bother jumping in at the current time.

I also experimented with leaving an OOC message in said marks asking people looking to do said dungeon to send me a tell so I could stop looting and let it reset as soon as possible for their convenience, since a group of multiple people's needs trumps my own on average, so I could handle being interrupted mid ninja loot. However some people considered that too meta and I stopped doing it out of concern for not violating rules. I still believe that quality of life, metagaming and roleplay are a tangled web and sometimes one must yield to the other. Whether or not it's considered kosher to ask people in a placed message to send a tell to you if they pass by your location, I'd defer to the DMs.

But even assuming that it isn't, ninja looters can make amends for accidentally putting dungeon parties out of pocket by passing back through, offloading some pity loot and wishing them well on the next place they go to. I did that occasionally if I circled back and found a group all set up to enter and they'd not noticed my warnings. I think it's far more likely that it's not actually a player responsible for any bugged loot but more likely either a person that's previously looted doesn't know better when they come back with a party to actually clear it, or there's something else happening.

Edit:

[Phantasia]

runs for cover

[Philos]

"Mr. President I'm afraid we've got a heck of a situation on our hands ..."

[PlatointheCave]

I took Crypt Raider and I regret nothing.

[Pav]

I took Crypt Raider and I regret nothing.

[Daboomer]

I have waited for this Day so Long.

[HM01]

I took Crypt Raider and I regret nothing.

[zDark Shadowz]

If a caster AI gets ticked off that there might be someone nearby that chest, could they begin casting clairvoyance / see invisibility / true seeing on themselves and/or others?

Some queries about ninjalooting, if I'm invisible and some creatures are too close to a chest, is it okay to drop and pick up an item such as Rustle Leaves to 'make noise' to distract creatures away?

Is there a spell that can 'make a noise' in a location to draw enemies that way without dropping invisibility? I'm curious what kind of dynamic options are available or allowed.

[emptyanima]

If a caster AI gets ticked off that there might be someone nearby that chest, could they begin casting clairvoyance / see invisibility / true seeing on themselves and/or others?

Some queries about ninjalooting, if I'm invisible and some creatures are too close to a chest, is it okay to drop and pick up an item such as Rustle Leaves to 'make noise' to distract creatures away?

Is there a spell that can 'make a noise' in a location to draw enemies that way without dropping invisibility? I'm curious what kind of dynamic options are available or allowed.

On the first point, I believe some enemies already do this.
On the second point, this is legitimate.
On the third, I don’t believe that there’s a spell that works this way but I could be wrong.

Finally, as I say on every thread of this nature, I have encountered dungeons that were squashed (or in the middle of being squashed) by a high level character far more frequently than entering a place which hasn’t yet reset since a looter’s pilfering.

[Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex]

On the first point, I believe some enemies already do this.
On the second point, this is legitimate.
On the third, I don’t believe that there’s a spell that works this way but I could be wrong.

Finally, as I say on every thread of this nature, I have encountered dungeons that were squashed (or in the middle of being squashed) by a high level character far more frequently than entering a place which hasn’t yet reset since a looter’s pilfering.

First point is correct; ninja looting the tergs gets hairy if there's a sorceress around. On the second point, it's legitimate, as is opening/closing doors etc. On the third, yes. You can cast any spell and it instantly draws all enemies near to you from invisibility.

[harlock]

I never wanted to discuss about ninja looting, adn thats why i made first post to system wishlist. Just wanted to say to develpers that this thing needs to change. I'm not debading if it's fair ballanced and stuff like that, cause it's not about rebalancing,  non ninja looters are having bad expirience because of ninja looters, thats what the initial post was about and as another guy said the issue has been discussed over and over again. Now all can find excuses to justify from ninja looting to Hitler's genoside if we want to but the issue is the bad expirience and if they wish to do somethign about it.
I got my answer from Arawn, who is CC probably for the comunity that supports ninja looting not all of us, i guess he speaks for all Devs and CCs. 
You can continue fighting, debading, or delete the thread.

[APorg]

Wow. One heck of a Godwin there. Nice.

Can we please lock this thread?

[ladylena]

Gonna toss my two cents in here...

I get the point, I've had horrid experiences where a group I'm with uses up lots of potions and items to clear the dungeon only to find no loot. It is sucky and annoying and frustrating, but there are things ninja looters could do, such as loot uncommon places, or leave a mark that suggests someone was inside. When I do this, if it's a frequented dungeon I'll sometimes even add in the in-game date and time.

But more than ninja looting, I find the bigger issue is people soloing the dungeons. If the devs added what was suggested it would completely defeat the point of having stealth.

Now there are some places that you can't ninja loot with just stealth, some places you'd be needing like greater sanctuary scrolls to get through. Perhaps seeing some more dungeons where it's really hard to ninja could be a nice alternative?

[Arawn]

I don’t think this is going anywhere productive.

Lena, not to cut you off—if you want to start a separate thread about soloing, by all means, do so.