Author Topic: Countdown bar for changing armour  (Read 1921 times)

poisonivy2

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Countdown bar for changing armour
« on: September 13, 2018, 06:42:51 AM »
Well, I didnt want to be this person and I dont want to be hated, but.... in this last week since I came back I noticed that the server is really crowded and a lot of people are abusing armor changing... I've seen people wearing clothes on the outskirts changing into heavy armor in a snap of fingers when werewolves attack (it only starts to count as "combate mode" after someone gets hit), I've seen people on dungeons removing full plates in order to cast spells and then putting them back on, again, in a snap of fingers and I've seen people getting on their armours even while running...

I used to play on this brazilian RP server and they had a nice thing to prevent this, actually a pretty simple system:

When getting into armor, a time bar would do a countdown (just like the rest bar on single player), each armor having its own time needed. If I remember right, it would take 8 full rounds to get in a full plate, or out of it.

While the bar decreases, the system keeps the char on crouching position, making it incapable of moving, attacking and casting.

It just takes a few real life seconds, but I really think that would make things much more close to reality and prevent abuse. In fact, in real life its kinda impossible to put on or to remove a set of full plate mail without help, thats one of the reasons knights had squiers.


emptyanima

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 07:08:21 AM »
I played a server with the same system, my issue was that it took 8 seconds to cycle between appearances when crafting. Safe to say, I didn’t play there long.

It is better to lead by example with armour use and to have a quick chat with folks about it.

ILLY6666

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2018, 07:15:37 AM »
I played a server with the same system, my issue was that it took 8 seconds to cycle between appearances when crafting. Safe to say, I didn’t play there long.

It is better to lead by example with armour use and to have a quick chat with folks about it.

I know a server that has this system, but how they handle armor crafting is different.
Instead of changing the armor you have, you do it at a NPC doll and then you simply apply the armor to yourself.
Meaning, you won't do it until you're done with your tweaks. However, that would require a total rework of the current system.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 11:03:04 AM by WingsOfStardust »
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poisonivy2

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2018, 08:07:51 AM »
I played a server with the same system, my issue was that it took 8 seconds to cycle between appearances when crafting. Safe to say, I didn’t play there long.

It is better to lead by example with armour use and to have a quick chat with folks about it.

As usually, I didnt thought about that issue =/


Silas Rotleaf

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2018, 08:47:41 PM »
For changing into and out of armor I have seen some people do descriptive RP about "doffing their helm", snapping and buckling on or off the plate parts, and so on which though imperfect is still an effort. You kind of get about as much in as you put in when it comes describing physical actions...
Up to the point of that if it is too wordy you can get smacked around a bit or wind up dead from stuff if you are wordsmithing more than you are doing attack/evade or running.

However, maybe that is a realistic consequence for trying to quickly change into or out of a suit of protective stuff while in a dangerous situation. In real life it would be awkward and we can infer that historically some medieval knights would have helpers to get them in or out of their armor before jousting and so on, right?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 08:55:33 PM by Silas Rotleaf »

HolyFlyingTarkusBatman

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2018, 09:06:19 PM »
I kind of get it, but I also don't want this to turn into another pain in the butt system to fix something that, I think at least, isn't that big a deal. Personally, if I'm attacked out of armor, I'm attacked out of armor. I try to make a point not to be cheesy with things, though I also won't necessarily emote every single time my cleric swaps to her spell slot robes in a dungeon before a rest.

As already said, lead by example and offer a friendly nudge to people to be a bit more sensible about their use of armor.  :)

Otherwise, we then need to address the question of everyone literally walking around with armor on their back at all times even if they're not wearing it XD

Iridni Ren

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 11:32:04 PM »
I kind of get it, but I also don't want this to turn into another pain in the butt system to fix something that, I think at least, isn't that big a deal. Personally, if I'm attacked out of armor, I'm attacked out of armor. I try to make a point not to be cheesy with things, though I also won't necessarily emote every single time my cleric swaps to her spell slot robes in a dungeon before a rest.

As already said, lead by example and offer a friendly nudge to people to be a bit more sensible about their use of armor.  :)

Otherwise, we then need to address the question of everyone literally walking around with armor on their back at all times even if they're not wearing it XD

+1

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 02:00:51 PM »
I just want to dispute the 'it's almost impossible to get into full plate without help' thing from the OP. I've put on plate myself. I've also run, jumped, tumbled, and even swam once to prove a point with it. It's not nearly as cumbersome as the majority believes.

I do agree though, that you aren't putting it on instantly. If rushed, with enough practice, it's going to take at minimum about a minute and a half.

Wholesome Memester

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 04:17:19 PM »
Clearly the meta is just to turn your armor into something that looks like clothes to even prevent this immersion break.

Jeebs

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2018, 04:46:07 PM »
You can't. You can only modify your armour's torso to another one that offers the same AC value. While this might be possible with studded leather and lower, anything higher will always have a torso that looks just like armour. Besides, it would be pretty cheesy to have full plate armour that looks like plain clothes.

Dumas

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2018, 06:45:56 PM »
There are robe options that look like chain, scale, plate, etc, that are not effected by whatever AC the torso is.

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 06:03:43 AM »
I'll be honest, unless there is a rule written restricting this, and by proxy, restricting cloth-robing armor to look like mundane attire, while some people might purposefully avoid it, the true offenders that would 'abuse' this, if it could even theoretically be abused, will still do it. ..And I don't think a PvP encounter would be turned over by a DM, at any rate, because one party quickly equipped their armor, as there is no rule or precedent stating the exact amount of time that requires. So as far as the game is concerned, it's WYSIWYG. Just like the fact some of us have like, six suits of plate armor in our inventory, or carry around an entire shop's worth of armor and weapons without needing a mule or a pack oxen, or something. There's a certain point where NWN stops providing the necessities to facilitate a certain level of realism without additional hard-coded scripts or additional systems that I'm willing to bet PoTM has no interest in derailing their Dev Team over.

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 07:27:28 AM »

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 08:00:04 AM »

I didn't watch the... entire episode you posted - is it pertinent to this thread, though? Is it possible a gif would have been acceptable? LOL...23 minutes.

Alright, I am one of those people that RP's changing into and out of armor all the time in big long word smithed emotes. I kind of have to agree that it's cheesing to swap armor and cloth just to cast spells, and I used to do that all the time, but we don't really have spell caster armor and it's frustrating to be locked out of your spells if you're taking a defensive position at the front, so I understand that too. I started to emote taking the breast plate off during rests in order to relax, because I remember in SCA how difficult it was to sit down in my full plate. Also, if you rest without armor on you heal more hit points in case you didn't know (As well as with a bedroll and a fire going, that's like the trifecta of recovery).

I would like a timer personally because I think a lot of people could potentially overlook the RP of what it means to wear full plate, as in caring for it or putting it on. I can put it on by myself, though, and I think a few capable warriors would be able to as well. We play hero's after all, and I am just a nerd.

The only hold up I can see is if the script fires every time you cycle an appearance in crafting, like EA said. That said, will it make it less likely anyone would take their armor off again? Sit at tables and eat and role play in full plate and a helm with your shield out? I think it's just as cheesy to lounge around in your armor unless it is somehow comfortable, like maybe chain and a gambeson, or hard leather.

It's not impossible depending on the type of armor, the material it's made from, or the type of lounging environment, but it's mostly illogical. Like the characters in Game of Thrones all had different kinds of armor and thus different armor wearing experiences, and you can observe them in it and how difficult it would be for Jaime to sit in his full kingsguard armor vs how easy it is to sit in John Snow's get up.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 08:14:58 AM by Tycat »
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BraveSirRobin

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Re: Countdown bar for changing armour
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2018, 08:57:09 AM »

I didn't watch the... entire episode you posted - is it pertinent to this thread, though? Is it possible a gif would have been acceptable? LOL...23 minutes.

Alright, I am one of those people that RP's changing into and out of armor all the time in big long word smithed emotes. I kind of have to agree that it's cheesing to swap armor and cloth just to cast spells, and I used to do that all the time, but we don't really have spell caster armor and it's frustrating to be locked out of your spells if you're taking a defensive position at the front, so I understand that too. I started to emote taking the breast plate off during rests in order to relax, because I remember in SCA how difficult it was to sit down in my full plate. Also, if you rest without armor on you heal more hit points in case you didn't know (As well as with a bedroll and a fire going, that's like the trifecta of recovery).

I would like a timer personally because I think a lot of people could potentially overlook the RP of what it means to wear full plate, as in caring for it or putting it on. I can put it on by myself, though, and I think a few capable warriors would be able to as well. We play hero's after all, and I am just a nerd.

The only hold up I can see is if the script fires every time you cycle an appearance in crafting, like EA said. That said, will it make it less likely anyone would take their armor off again? Sit at tables and eat and role play in full plate and a helm with your shield out? I think it's just as cheesy to lounge around in your armor unless it is somehow comfortable, like maybe chain and a gambeson, or hard leather.

It's not impossible depending on the type of armor, the material it's made from, or the type of lounging environment, but it's mostly illogical. Like the characters in Game of Thrones all had different kinds of armor and thus different armor wearing experiences, and you can observe them in it and how difficult it would be for Jaime to sit in his full kingsguard armor vs how easy it is to sit in John Snow's get up.

The real conversation to be had is, when you try to regulate in any official manner the timeframe in which you can 'switch' armor, on grounds of immersion and roleplay, the sooner people are just going to make suits of full plate a simple chest piece model with all-cloth elsewhere, and claim they just throw on their chestpiece whenever they need to. You can supposedly fire a Crossbow four times in six seconds, and you can fire a flintlock pistol once every six seconds. It's clear some things here aren't realistic, or immersive to their immediate historical counterparts, and that's OK. The only time I disdain someone changing into armor, is when they do it without emoting in the middle of public, as though they didn't just perform a social faux pas. But I'm not concerned with people who are in PvP situations and their opponent is trying to time it when they're not in armor, because in NWN, Plate Armor isn't really plate armor. Plate armor is supposed to make you like an armored tank, IRL, with virtually no way to be killed except with specialized tools.. Or getting exhausted and stabbed through the visor. In NWN, not only is it not that, but if you build your character as a DEX character, you get greater protection by level 20 than someone in Plate Armor. I'm content with the opinion that while some things can break immersion, yes, 'regulating' the time in which it takes to switch armors just creates more issues for a relatively minor and metagamey issue, which is, people don't like ganking people out of armor, just for them to turn invisible, switch armor, and reappear behind them saying, 'Nothing personell, kid.'