Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) > Module Feedback and Suggestions

Pale Master, Summoning Tweaks

<< < (2/5) > >>

Alverin:

--- Quote from: BahamutZ3RO on September 07, 2018, 07:59:09 PM ---Yeah, I really wish we could see some of the more fun/interesting summons. :( I really think the team needs to sit down and rethink their approach toward summons in general, particularly given that now you can brew potions for nearly every buff. It's skewing things in one direction quite badly.

--- End quote ---

I totally agree with this, specifically the part about reworking summons! More on that later. In regards to the Shadow Summons, here are some tweaks that could be applied with the current system that might work well.

-Increase the amount of time the Shadow can be summoned
-Allow the shadow to be summoned alongside other summons. (possible limitation issues)'

These two tweaks would make the shadows wouldn't be a crazy buff, since the summons are killed fairly easily anyways, and are practically harmless to anyone above level 5, instead this would just allow us to roleplay with our summons without the current arbitrary limitations set in place.

As far as summoning in general, I think it'd be really cool to be able to "choose" what you're going to summon, and the tier of that summons, through reagent use.

The system would work as follows, using spiders as an example.

Killing a spider drops their ichor, the ichor is a reagent that can be used in summoning. You simply right click the reagent and use it on yourself to "prepare" it for summoning use.

Now, the next summon spell you use, dissolves the ichor and summons a spider of appropriate level. Summons Monster I might summons a spiderling, where as 3 might summons a Giant Spider and 4 can stay a dire spider. Finally Summon Monster 9 might create a Hive Mother, or something of like. Now we can have themed conjurers, which adds a whole-nother level of complexity and originality to roleplay.

You have you Shadow Conjurers, various Undead summoners, Spider Summoners, Ooze and Gelatinous summoners, perhaps even Dragon summoners.

Finally, if we could control the amount of summons summoned at a time and able to be under player control, I think it'd be really cool to have Mass Summons spells, that create multiple enemies of a mediocre level to deal with, perhaps even a roll, such as "Creates 1d4+1 spiderlings" for Mass Summons I. Just think of the escape possibilites, summoning a small group of spiders to hold off a door while you make your escape. Or just providing fodder for fighters.

I feel as though things that have an in-game stipulation against them, such as summoning and necromancy, should have a reason for this stipulation, and that reason could be simply that those types of things are a tad bit more powerful, thus harder to control and leave more room for accidents we deem "evil". That would make me more comfortable playing a Necromancer or summoner. It's a very small power bump to help balance out the in-game distaste toward such a thing, similar to guns.

Grendlykins, Simp of Azalin Rex:
Going off of the conventions of other servers without questioning the viability of following their examples, other servers make use of dialogue systems usually initiated through books or items that allow the player to change the types of summoned creatures brought forth by specific spells; things like setting your Planar Binding/Gate spells to exclusively summon Yugoloths, Tanar'ri, etc or the Summon I-IX series to only summon various types of animals or even other kinds of undead.

In addition, weaker summons such as regular Shadows or zombies I have seen implemented as a 'swarm' type summon where multiple instances of the creature are brought forth, taking advantage of how they are a weaker creature but useful in mobs for their drain effects or disease afflictions etc. However given the repeated statement that the design viewpoint of the server is that summons have not and will not be made a viable choice to prevent soloing, despite multiple other classes and builds having that as a possibility through niche designs, will continue to prevent such an overhaul of the summon system.

Alverin:

--- Quote from: Grendel on October 17, 2018, 04:37:34 AM ---Going off of the conventions of other servers without questioning the viability of following their examples, other servers make use of dialogue systems usually initiated through books or items that allow the player to change the types of summoned creatures brought forth by specific spells; things like setting your Planar Binding/Gate spells to exclusively summon Yugoloths, Tanar'ri, etc or the Summon I-IX series to only summon various types of animals or even other kinds of undead.

In addition, weaker summons such as regular Shadows or zombies I have seen implemented as a 'swarm' type summon where multiple instances of the creature are brought forth, taking advantage of how they are a weaker creature but useful in mobs for their drain effects or disease afflictions etc. However given the repeated statement that the design viewpoint of the server is that summons have not and will not be made a viable choice to prevent soloing, despite multiple other classes and builds having that as a possibility through niche designs, will continue to prevent such an overhaul of the summon system.

--- End quote ---

Okay, so we know both of the suggested idea's are possible, now it's just a matter of getting the designers to actually implement it.

If they don't want to make summoning any more powerful than it is, that's fine, we just want a more dynamic summoning system. I'd take 3 shadows over my Skeletal Chief any day. Or 2 Zombie Warriors, or 5 Skeletal Archers. Just  give us more of a choice, after all, isn't that what DnD's about?

DM Cataclysm:
*Thematic Thread Necromancy*

^-^ I wanted to bump this again for a consideration in a change to the final creature of the Pale Master ability, Summon Greater Undead.

As mentioned above, I believe the intended final creature is the Greater Bodak. While it has a reasonable number of HP, this creature is pretty unusable. The main feature of this summon is the Death Gaze. Since undead are immune to this and the remaining level-appropriate enemies are mostly guaranteed to succeed on a DC: 15 save, it leaves the Bodak to fight melee. Even with several of the new undead augmentation feats, it doesn't stand a chance in combat unless you're fighting something far below your level. It only has a base of 1 attack per round, no weapon, and a +8 AB.

I think the 'Vampire' from the Create Greater Undead cleric spell, would be a much more fitting summon to replace the Greater Bodak. I've placed the base stats for several creatures below, including these two creatures - along with some other summons that are accessible through spells and abilities around level 14/15, for comparison.

Greater BodakSpoiler: showHit Die: 11 | CR: 11
Armor Class: 17
Hit Points: 71
AB: +8 - One attack
Damage: 1d10+2 - No weapon. Unable to increase AB through GMW

VampireSpoiler: showHit Die: 10 | CR: 12
Armor Class: 17
Hit Points: 94
AB: +18 / +13 - Two attacks
Damage: 1d10+7

Summon Creature VII - Water ElementalSpoiler: showHit Die: 16 | CR: 11
Armor Class: 23
Hit Points: 152
AB: +19 / +14 / +9 - Three attacks
Damage: 2d10+7 - No weapon. Unable to increase AB through GMW

Mordenkainen's Sword - Helmed HorrorSpoiler: showHit Die: 16 | CR: 16
Armor Class: 24
Hit Points: 104
AB: +19 / +14 / +9 - Three attacks
Damage: 2d6 + 10 + 5 (Fire)
As it stands, the other summons that you can gain at a similar level outclass the Greater Bodak in about every category. They also have similar immunities from being elementals or constructs. You can also further enhance the elementals through feats, as you can undead. Given that this is the most powerful summoning ability for a Pale Master - I'm hoping we can bump it up to something that stands a little better chance against the mid-level challenges on the server. I wouldn't expect this to replace a warrior or to go mowing down Pit Fiends, but something that has reasonable survivability and poses a bit more threat would be a fantastic boost!

HopeIsTheCarrot:

--- Quote from: Mika! on February 25, 2019, 11:14:24 PM ---*Thematic Thread Necromancy*

^-^ I wanted to bump this again for a consideration in a change to the final creature of the Pale Master ability, Summon Greater Undead.

As mentioned above, I believe the intended final creature is the Greater Bodak. While it has a reasonable number of HP, this creature is pretty unusable. The main feature of this summon is the Death Gaze. Since undead are immune to this and the remaining level-appropriate enemies are mostly guaranteed to succeed on a DC: 15 save, it leaves the Bodak to fight melee. Even with several of the new undead augmentation feats, it doesn't stand a chance in combat unless you're fighting something far below your level. It only has a base of 1 attack per round, no weapon, and a +8 AB.

I think the 'Vampire' from the Create Greater Undead cleric spell, would be a much more fitting summon to replace the Greater Bodak. I've placed the base stats for several creatures below, including these two creatures - along with some other summons that are accessible through spells and abilities around level 14/15, for comparison.

Greater BodakSpoiler: showHit Die: 11 | CR: 11
Armor Class: 17
Hit Points: 71
AB: +8 - One attack
Damage: 1d10+2 - No weapon. Unable to increase AB through GMW

VampireSpoiler: showHit Die: 10 | CR: 12
Armor Class: 17
Hit Points: 94
AB: +18 / +13 - Two attacks
Damage: 1d10+7

Summon Creature VII - Water ElementalSpoiler: showHit Die: 16 | CR: 11
Armor Class: 23
Hit Points: 152
AB: +19 / +14 / +9 - Three attacks
Damage: 2d10+7 - No weapon. Unable to increase AB through GMW

Mordenkainen's Sword - Helmed HorrorSpoiler: showHit Die: 16 | CR: 16
Armor Class: 24
Hit Points: 104
AB: +19 / +14 / +9 - Three attacks
Damage: 2d6 + 10 + 5 (Fire)
As it stands, the other summons that you can gain at a similar level outclass the Greater Bodak in about every category. They also have similar immunities from being elementals or constructs. You can also further enhance the elementals through feats, as you can undead. Given that this is the most powerful summoning ability for a Pale Master - I'm hoping we can bump it up to something that stands a little better chance against the mid-level challenges on the server. I wouldn't expect this to replace a warrior or to go mowing down Pit Fiends, but something that has reasonable survivability and poses a bit more threat would be a fantastic boost!

--- End quote ---

+1

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page