Doors closing at 18.00 (Barovia)

[APorg]

But what about the law abiding citizen who isn’t going to bash the lock off a gate? Why is that lock bashable but the main city gate isn’t? With enough force I would think any of them would be.

Yeah, it'd be nice if some of these places -- e.g. the Von Zeklos outpost wall -- had a transition so you could "climb over" it at night. Perhaps including a STR check, and those who fail take some small amount of damage as they fall off the wall. That would add a bit of flavour too!

[Darkside of Heaven]

The problem is PCs tend to operate on a 24-hour cycle--which is also unrealistic when you think about it. One way to reconcile the dilemma would be for PCs to start having to sleep, say, 8 out of every 24 hours. When they rest to heal and recover spells, make them have to rest for eight actual in-game hours.

Good-aligned and lawful neutral PCs could time their sleep so it would occur at night, and chaotic neutral and evil PCs would all be sleeping their wild and nefarious activities off during the day. That way you could RP your character properly even whilst catching a few well-earned winks.

Naturally, this new restriction should apply mostly to humans. Elves should be allowed to keep RPing their characters the way they have in years past because their not needing sleep conforms to setting lore.

If the above is deemed too sacrificing of playability for RP realism, perhaps NPC down-time hours might at least be shortened to something more like eight, rather than 72 out of every 144 minutes of playing time.

If you actively did this with your PC maybe you won't hit blind drive.

The day night cycle and NPC's going in at night is perfectly fine. There is no need to change it. Some aspects of the server are made because of lore and roleplay which makes things harder. Others are made because it's a game and would be a pain if it was realistic. The Devs have planned all thing out and it's worked perfectly fine for the last however many years. Why fix what ain't broke?

Zeklos needs fixing because the other towns have a way in and out at night.

The warehouse gate? Not sure if the stableman and warehouse clerk work nights?

[Phantasia]

The locking doors and stuff is a step in the right direction for good atmosphere. However, options are key. To either get out, or get in. Every door that locks like this should be able to be bashed in one way or another, and alternate routes added in Barovia where they do not exist.

That's my only real gripe. Of course, bash in the smithy's door at your own risk for your midnight blacksmith spree.

Additionally, I don't see what's so hard about timing your daily escapades? Daylight is a valuable thing, best not waste it, and be where you need to be by sun down. If you push it, that's risk, and regardless, should be an option for you to take. About the only down side to this is having to rush RP.

[Darkside of Heaven]

The locking doors and stuff is a step in the right direction for good atmosphere. However, options are key. To either get out, or get in. Every door that locks like this should be able to be bashed in one way or another, and alternate routes added in Barovia where they do not exist.

That's my only real gripe. Of course, bash in the smithy's door at your own risk for your midnight blacksmith spree.

Additionally, I don't see what's so hard about timing your daily escapades? Daylight is a valuable thing, best not waste it, and be where you need to be by sun down. If you push it, that's risk, and regardless, should be an option for you to take. About the only down side to this is having to rush RP.

Keys are a pain logistically.
Crafting halls unlocked 24/7 and a way to get into the area is enough. So far only zeklos has the issue of after hours access.

[WhenTheSunGoesDown]

I am not sure where you're getting that information, Darkside. That or you're NOT reading the topic closely

Crafting halls LOCK up. In Vallaki. In VoB. In Zeklos. NPCs inside LEAVE even if you DO get inside before sunset.
Warehouse area gate bashable? Great, how much strength should my str 8 rogue have to do it? As the lock is not pickable. And lets be realistic, if it is not a criminal character as Lotte pointed out, why would she break city property?

Lock shops, surely. Lock city gates. But leave crafting for people to spend their nights with some use instead of being stuck with nothing to do. Unrealistic? Sure, perhaps. But come on. it is a game. Otherwise, sure implement bathroom/lunch breaks for Vallaki garda by the city entrance etc. Immersion is great as long as it does not stop people with limited time from having fun. And it's not like it affects much other than offering more options for people.

[EO]

Warehouse area gate bashable? Great, how much strength should my str 8 rogue have to do it? As the lock is not pickable. And lets be realistic, if it is not a criminal character as Lotte pointed out, why would she break city property?

It's also pickable or should be. As for the legality of it all, considering that character is sneaking into a town after dark through a sewer system I don't think they are all that lawful.

[WhenTheSunGoesDown]

They are not. None of those locks is pickable. And we're speaking of instances like logging into a warehouse district after reset and finding myself trapped within that small warehouse area behind the gate. Happened to me before.
Besides my Barovian would sneak, sure. But she'd not damage the city. So it's all about semantics there.

[Darkside of Heaven]

I am not sure where you're getting that information, Darkside. That or you're NOT reading the topic closely

(Shrug)
Deal with it. Barovians go inside at night because of superstition and dangers. You get locked in an area or cant craft because it's night time.
Welcome to Ravenloft.

[Chabxxu]

I am not sure where you're getting that information, Darkside. That or you're NOT reading the topic closely

(Shrug)
Deal with it. Barovians go inside at night because of superstition and dangers. You get locked in an area or cant craft because it's night time.
Welcome to Ravenloft.

Very nice attitude here, it brings a lot to the discussion.

Those changes do make it more realistic in terms of immersion, but they are pretty bad for people with limited playtime or that get stuck because of locked doors or npcs leaving. Is it really that bad and immerssion breaking for allowing pcs to craft during the night instead of having to afk or log off?

[IrishIron]

Never broke my immersion to be able to craft at night. Now it's such a pain I avoid crafting or hike the prices. The more pain it is when u get halfway through crafting say 40 ingots and then the smith leaves and you can't buy the templates to finish the work... Then you have to log. Or dump the stuff. That is immersion breaking for me. All that time and your character decided they have to dump it in the trash barrel or walk around with a few hundred pounds encumbered. Use to take ppl with me to craft now I'm in a rush to beat the clock. Certain NPCs just make sense to be around. It's a game. The caravan guy doesn't go to sleep. Nor do the gate guards get a bathroom break during the entire shift. If these small details break your immersion. A deep breath is needed to remember this is in the end a game and ppl realizing it's just better to log off and wait might be a good indicator it's perhaps to much. The system worked well enough before.

[PrimetheGrime]

Never broke my immersion to be able to craft at night. Now it's such a pain I avoid crafting or hike the prices. The more pain it is when u get halfway through crafting say 40 ingots and then the smith leaves and you can't buy the templates to finish the work... Then you have to log. Or dump the stuff. That is immersion breaking for me. All that time and your character decided they have to dump it in the trash barrel or walk around with a few hundred pounds encumbered. Use to take ppl with me to craft now I'm in a rush to beat the clock. Certain NPCs just make sense to be around. It's a game. The caravan guy doesn't go to sleep. Nor do the gate guards get a bathroom break during the entire shift. If these small details break your immersion. A deep breath is needed to remember this is in the end a game and ppl realizing it's just better to log off and wait might be a good indicator it's perhaps to much. The system worked well enough before.

+1
If the crafters remain with the door being unlocked, I think it shouldn't have too much of an issue to the immersion of it still.

[WhenTheSunGoesDown]

I am not sure where you're getting that information, Darkside. That or you're NOT reading the topic closely

(Shrug)
Deal with it. Barovians go inside at night because of superstition and dangers. You get locked in an area or cant craft because it's night time.
Welcome to Ravenloft.

That's exactly what I am doing, Darkside, I am dealing with it via discussing it on the forum. It'd seem I am not the only one who thinks this change is not bringing much other than frustration and it hinders crafting.

As for those suggesting to remove a healer in ML temple for the night time, I'd advise to roll a new toon and join a level 2-6 group in a crypt, and then spend a lot of time around trying to find a cleric 1. capable of resurrecting people. 2. having an endless supply of diamonds. And see if people in that low level group consider it a great change.

[emptyanima]

If the doors do stay locked, I think it would be more player-friendly if the NPCs were still present in the crafting hall. Crafting through the night can be a productive way to spend the time. This way, the door closing would not be such a concern for people. As someone who does a lot of it, it can be hard to gauge how many items you might need to buy, and some templates and reagents take up a lot of space, which necessitates going back for more materials. For this reason I’ve long avoided using the leatherworking shop in Port-a-Lucine, as this was previously the only place I encountered (other than the tailor merchant in the VoB) with NPCs who left at night.

Basically, the prospect of being locked in is more agreeable if you have things to do. This would allow the door-locking to continue without further frustrations.

Edit: I also like aprog’s suggestion about unconventional routes with flavour checks.

[Soulbourne]

Never broke my immersion to be able to craft at night. Now it's such a pain I avoid crafting or hike the prices. The more pain it is when u get halfway through crafting say 40 ingots and then the smith leaves and you can't buy the templates to finish the work... Then you have to log. Or dump the stuff. That is immersion breaking for me. All that time and your character decided they have to dump it in the trash barrel or walk around with a few hundred pounds encumbered. Use to take ppl with me to craft now I'm in a rush to beat the clock. Certain NPCs just make sense to be around. It's a game. The caravan guy doesn't go to sleep. Nor do the gate guards get a bathroom break during the entire shift. If these small details break your immersion. A deep breath is needed to remember this is in the end a game and ppl realizing it's just better to log off and wait might be a good indicator it's perhaps to much. The system worked well enough before.

+1
If the crafters remain with the door being unlocked, I think it shouldn't have too much of an issue to the immersion of it still.

+2
 I wanted to get into more types of crafting and we already deal with a split mindset of days are 1 to 1 vs. Having multiple IG days. Cannot we operate the crafting hall and npcs under the full day mindset and leave them out? I enjoy the immersion it brings for other  buildings; however, I have a limited 2-3 hours of playtime 4 nights a week now so I simply have not started because crafting is already a time-sink and If I start something I don't want to be stuck for the second half of my time or even the first half of the next day as well If I log in and it's night again.

[WhenTheSunGoesDown]

How about a more immersive solution. Do not lock crafting halls, do not make NPCs leave. Make NPCs charge a bit more for supplies as a compensation for them working at night time? It might give a bit more flavour as it was the main goal of the lockup in the first place, yet won't make characters unplayable til morning. Just an idea. Maybe a new shop with a new dialog involving grumbling about iadul outlanders not letting them rest. Something. I am sure an acceptable solution can be found.

[zDark Shadowz]

I know a lot of people are saying that NPCs leave while crafting, but when I was in Vallaki a couple days ago messing about with crafting alongside Riggs we were able to buy and craft with various templates and inspect the merchants throughout the night in the crafting hall.

None of them had left after 18.00 or even tried to leave. Was this just a one off exception, then? Are they normally supposed to leave but didn't?

[A minor Glamour]

from: PrimetheGrime on August 28, 2018, 03:40:37 AM

Quote from: Fearghas on August 28, 2018, 01:22:43 AM
Never broke my immersion to be able to craft at night. Now it's such a pain I avoid crafting or hike the prices. The more pain it is when u get halfway through crafting say 40 ingots and then the smith leaves and you can't buy the templates to finish the work... Then you have to log. Or dump the stuff. That is immersion breaking for me. All that time and your character decided they have to dump it in the trash barrel or walk around with a few hundred pounds encumbered. Use to take ppl with me to craft now I'm in a rush to beat the clock. Certain NPCs just make sense to be around. It's a game. The caravan guy doesn't go to sleep. Nor do the gate guards get a bathroom break during the entire shift. If these small details break your immersion. A deep breath is needed to remember this is in the end a game and ppl realizing it's just better to log off and wait might be a good indicator it's perhaps to much. The system worked well enough before.

+1
If the crafters remain with the door being unlocked, I think it shouldn't have too much of an issue to the immersion of it still.

Hmm I agree with some of the previous posts saying that this is not an MMO, its a roleplaying server, and it's totally correct that the NPC's are afraid of night so they shouldn't have an open door policy after dark, but players will be unhappy about this. So here's my idea...

1) Put in beds/rooms in the crafting halls so the crafters have a place to go at night, create a script that makes them walk into those rooms to rest.

2) Create a new conversation that only appears between 18:00 and 06:00, so the NPC's can be surly and grumpy that they are being bothered at night being asked to sell crafting supplys.

3) Charge players a few gold extra for bothering them at night, and for making the crafters annoyed.

4) Make the supplys that players have to buy from the NPC's craftable, but lengthy, so that buying supplys is still reasonable if you want to cut out those steps.

[DM Tarokka]

There are some suggestions I'd like to share, since I love crafting myself when on character.

1) Not all the crafting stations in the server close at night, or lack the NPCs for templates. Thus think carefully about your own "crafting tours" (if picking wood, herbs or metal). Even in Barovia something is always open.
2) If you have planned to do something buy the patterns before you get the ingredients, I know it can be a pain because of weight, encumber, etc, but taking some patterns in advance can be done either way, especially if you are with friends. Of course you have to be a bit illegal by trespassing, but that is another matter.
3) For developers: it may be a hard work, but adding the possibility  to have a way to craft one own's patterns would definitely be a great addition.

I understand and empathyize with all the points of view written here, included the fact this is not a MMO and that some lore is applied (it could have been done long ago already), thus my stance on this matter is pretty neutral. As a DM and one liking the lore, I really appreciate this change, as a player I've just adapted to the change: this server has changed a lot in its history, feedback has always been heard, and everything has been done for the joy of the most. Have fun!

[Iridni Ren]

2) If you have planned to do something buy the patterns before you get the ingredients, I know it can be a pain because of weight, encumber, etc, but taking some patterns in advance can be done either way, especially if you are with friends. Of course you have to be a bit illegal by trespassing, but that is another matter.

Making bottles, the orange goo used in alchemy, and templates stackable would help here. Templates might be difficult, but making bottles stackable would seem easy, and it makes no IC sense that potions themselves are stackable whereas the bottles aren't.

Portable cauldrons.

Give carpenters the ability to build ad hoc crafting stations (including alchemical tables) except for those used in metalworking.

Place more metalworking stations outdoors.

None of those things is unreasonable at all as far as immersion goes. It seems to me that immersion is often an argument used for making the game more difficult but resisted when it makes the game easier.

[modderpunk]

Some of the concerns voiced in this thread will be adressed in a comming update

[EO]

Aside from a few minor tweaks, this should be mostly solved.

1) Gates to all settlements (except Vallaki) can be opened at night by clicking on the door, prompting a conversation with the lone guard (or by talking with said guard if on the same side). There are a few checks since they won't let just anyone in at night.

2) While doors to crafting stations remain locked, the NPCs in the main hubs still spawn at night, so that people who got in before dark can continue crafting and others, well they can bash the door or unlock it if they want.

[noah25]

I actually really like the new system. I always wondered why the crafting npcs were so amazingly overconfident in their abilities they never locked their door or slept. Then they would get eaten by a normal wererat some terrified level 2 let in that killed it until the server reset. Makes more sense and the crafting npcs won't get murdered anymore.