Author Topic: Pale Master: Animate Dead  (Read 188 times)

Mika!

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Pale Master: Animate Dead
« on: July 11, 2018, 03:49:58 PM »
At level 4 Pale Master, the class ability for Animate Dead does not appear to be working correctly.

I have a character that is 5 Wizard | 4 Pale Master. From my understanding, Animate Dead specifically should only consider the Pale Master levels. At level 4, the ability should summon a Skeleton Warrior. It is still summoning the Tyrantfog Zombie. When using the actual spell Animate Dead, it summons the Skeleton Warrior correctly.

The Summon Undead class ability appears to be working correctly. I believe that ability should consider both the Wizard and Palemaster levels, and it is correctly summoning the Wraith.

ethinos

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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2018, 05:09:05 PM »
According to the NWN wiki, you get the tyrantfog zombie from levels 1-5, skeletal warrior from 6-9, and skeletal chieftain at 10+. So, it seems like the zombie is working normally. They only updated the summon undead in the recent hak updates. Animate Dead should still be vanilla NWN.

"Pale Master
-Summon Undead/Summon Greater Undead take into account the total caster level of the character (casting class levels + Pale Master levels/2)
-Pale Masters gain new spells per day as if they had also gained a level in his highest caster class (bard, sorcerer or wizard) and their caster level increases accordingly.
-Summon Undead and Summon Greater Undead take into account the character's full caster level (including non-PM caster levels) up to a maximum of 15.
-Added new prerequisites:
    -Lore 8 ranks
    -Skill Focus (Lore)"
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Mika!

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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2018, 06:56:28 PM »
Ah, interesting! I was going off of the in-game spell description for Animate Dead, which is probably the issue. The spell lists the summons as the following:

Levels 1 to 3: Tyrantfog Zombie
Levels 4 to 7: Skeletal Warrior
Level 8+: Skeletal Chieftain

So, by vanilla NWN standards - by the time you qualify for the class and then begin taking Pale Master levels, you'd need to be roughly character level 15 before you could summon the skeletal chieftan.

Alternatively, a pure wizard or sorcerer could summon the skeletal chieftan at level 8.

Since a cleric's caster level is considered doubled when determining the level of undead summoned, they can summon the skeletal chieftan as soon as they get Animate Dead, at level 5.

I'm wondering if we'd consider changing the level at which PM's gain access to the more powerful summons for this ability? Since Undeath is one of the main features of the class, it seems like a pretty hard hit for them to be running 7-10 levels behind other classes in summoning the same creature with this ability.

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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 07:22:54 PM »
I would recommend you read the “official” roleplay ressource for Pale Master on the forum (I usually go in Application>App. For certain races/classes>Pale Master).

There’s a paragraph  which describes how “it is breaking the bound between life and death... a loss of vitality, not related to the desire of control and creation over the undeads as a necromancer would.”

I guess my point is that following the lore suggested by this ressource, Pale Masters isn’t supposed to gain more power over the undeads and their special abilities regarding them, but a sort of empathy and appreciation of their state of existence and the strive to be more like them. This quote also confirms what you said as in a pure wizard “necromancer” would have more power over the undeads mechanically speaking compared to a Pale Master, and perhaps it should remain that way.
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Mika!

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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2018, 08:05:52 PM »
I'm familiar with the official roleplay resources on the PrC.

The section that you're referencing does refer to the motivations of Pale Masters, but doesn't necessarily suggest that they're drastically weaker than their Undeath Necromancer counterparts. Some other notable quotes from the resources: "an alternative exists for those who desire power over undead, without losing too much of their arcane power" | "As they gain levels, they look more and more like the undead that they control" | "Whereas a necromancer would force undeath to do his bidding through spells and the like, a Palemaster differs by being able to use his growing link with the undead to coax them into doing what he wishes"

While the primary motivation of a PM is to bring himself closer to undeath, control over the undead is still a large part of the class - and a PM's intense understanding of undeath should prevent him from being the weakest undead summoning class in the game. A wizard with no other focus in Necromancy could easily outdo a Pale Master with Animate Dead, simply by picking up a scroll. Also - the two higher level summoning abilities for the class at least function a little closer to what wizards/sorcerers are able to summon.

My primary thought on this is really for Animate Undead, however - as it seems that PM's are just substantially behind everyone else for this ability specifically.


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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2018, 09:44:49 PM »
It's as per PnP; Pale Master's Animate Dead is based off the Pale Master levels only, the other ones (Summon Undead/Greater Undead) are based on total level, though I've set them to cap at 15 to not be OP (since they are Epic level summons at that point in NwN).

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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2018, 11:47:57 PM »
What if they were not greater than or less than but equal to?
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Mika!

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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 12:02:57 AM »
That would be great! :> Right now, the character level is so far beyond the level of the summon by the time they get it, that it falls very quickly - even with a lot of the undead augmentation feats.

ethinos

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Re: Pale Master: Animate Dead
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2018, 01:15:26 PM »
I use Animate Dead with my PM only as a distraction in PvE (which can actually be useful) since those tyrantfog zombies are a bit of a joke when you are around the middle levels. While it's not the most useful ability, it's better than not having it at all.
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