Author Topic: Some crafting suggestions  (Read 535 times)

Quartermaster

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Some crafting suggestions
« on: May 15, 2018, 12:03:11 PM »
I have been trying most of the crafting systems in the server, and these systems are the best I have come across in online servers.
I do however have a few suggestions for some in game improvement, nothing too outrageous I swear!

For smelting, and smithy: Can we get ore/ingot sacks like the herb sacks that unique item activate hold 20? Maybe a crate looking misc medium sized icon? The click drag container bags full of ore, and ingots is wearing out the mouse button.  :lol:

For carpentry, can the script do 10 at once if the wood chunks are in? 
For woodworking: Something strange happens when you turn the bug carapaces into plates, everything has to be removed from the table before it will recognize that there is ingredients/craftable material inside.

For hide curing can we switch out the tannin bottle (misc thin) with an actual potion bottle that stack? this would make selling 10, 20, or even 99 of them a one click action.

For herb/potion crafting same question, switch the potion bottle (misc thin) with a potion bottle from the potions.  ((If the potion bottles are given a assigned property of material (like earthenware) it becomes a viable item in the toolset)).  /// using stacked items in the script may cause problems if the script isn't looking for a stack- there is an existing script on the vault that deals with stacks., this might have to be added to the existing scripts if the potion bottles are changed to.///

For alchemy, can the script for making varnishes be changed to do up to 10 at a time? it's set at one at a time now.

After reading through some other threads, the loot comments, and asking around about enchanting, A couple of ideas,

If one has to at least level 16 to supply the XP for enchanting which makes the enchanted item a +2 with some other bonus, or even better, what about making a low end enchantment system, maybe placed in that tower up on the mountain outside of Vallaki?  This new lower end enchanting would only use the lesser essences, and could add the following based on what essence/s are used:
a # of the essences could be required, not just one.
Lesser icy+1 cold damage (weapon) +1 fire save (armor, shields)
lesser fire +1 fire damage (weapon) +1 cold save (armor, shields)
lesser negative +1 negative damage (weapon) +1 divine save (armor, shields)
lesser acid +1 acid damage (weapon) +1 corrosion save (armor, shields)
lesser magic +1 attack bonus (weapon) 60% weight reduction (Armor, bags made via leather work, shields)

A couple of other reasons for the low end enchanting- gold sink. XP sink, and gear that could be continually enchanted as the PC grows in levels/ages. Certainly the item to be enchanted could have limits placed on what can be added, 1, or even 2 bonuses before it can't have anything else added is possible.

Thanks for reading!

MAB77

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 07:11:36 PM »
Thank you for your feedback. I am working to improve some aspects of the crafting system, so if you or anyone else have suggestions do keep them coming and they will be considered.

Do note, it is by design that the system is the way it is in many of the cases you brought up. I will not go into all the reasons for it, but a an important point is "how logical it would be". Producing most items, including varnishes, requires your full attention on one item at a time, our system represents that. Exceptions are made when we feel it makes sense, like when you brew potions, all you need is a larger cauldron and more components to make more potions at once. But you would never be able to process more than one log at a time with a hand saw. Yes, I know, this means mastering a craft takes grueling hours of grinding, but that too is on purpose. Crafting is not for everyone, but those who invest time in it are ultimately rewarded.

Making potion bottles that stack is sadly impossible. It is something we hope EE will eventually fix. But right now, stacked items cannot hold the variables required for the crafting system. Something that could possibly be done is to have "crate of bottles" items that could unpack into 10 bottles when used. I'll see what I can do about that. (No promises here!)

The chitin plates issue is known, it is a very mild problem though, easily fixed by the quick work around of removing/replacing them on the table. I don't want to say we'll never fix it, but we're more likely to focus on more pressing issues.

As to the rest of your suggestions they will be considered in due time.
Best regards!
Best Regards!
MAB

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Iridni Ren

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 10:58:03 PM »
The chitin plates issue is known, it is a very mild problem though, easily fixed by the quick work around of removing/replacing them on the table. I don't want to say we'll never fix it, but we're more likely to focus on more pressing issues.

The problem here is for players who genuinely try to learn things IC and who haven't crafted this material before. It's easy to become convinced that one is doing something wrong; after all, the feedback message you receive says you are!

I've also experienced a situation in which it seemed that the woodworking station became completely bugged (hee-hee) so that no amount of re-arranging and adding and subtracting components would right it. Instead I logged out, waited a while, and then came back and tried the same recipe again with success.

If nothing else, it would be an improvement for the message to suggest to crafters that they try re-arranging components, rather than telling them they're using the wrong components.

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Keyser

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 09:30:53 PM »
These are great suggestions and edits, I think. I know I have misgivings about the loot system (though I'm warming up to it) but I have to say the crafting system here is top notch and getting better each update. I've experimented so far with everything except enchanting and I've been enjoying it a lot! Gilding is the bane of my existence but even its pretty good. Looking forward to the future updates with crafting, to be certain!

Sinful Mystic

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 11:55:13 PM »
I'm curious, in view of the discussion on negative varnishes. Has there been any thought to adding positive ones so paladins and other do gooders can hurt everything too without having red weapons that act like undead?
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SanneJ

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 02:15:12 AM »
Some nice suggestions, but I will like to add one that I brought up a few times before.

Crafted slings! We have a lot of different kinds of leather on the server there would surely (maybe in combo with a second element) be a nice system for crafted slings possible.
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MAB77

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2018, 11:37:46 AM »
I'm curious, in view of the discussion on negative varnishes. Has there been any thought to adding positive ones so paladins and other do gooders can hurt everything too without having red weapons that act like undead?

This will require further discussion among devs. There are several issues to address beyond the simple fact that +/- energies on weapons (and traps) are not behaving as they should per 3.5e rules.
Best Regards!
MAB

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MAB77

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2018, 12:15:33 PM »
Some nice suggestions, but I will like to add one that I brought up a few times before.

Crafted slings! We have a lot of different kinds of leather on the server there would surely (maybe in combo with a second element) be a nice system for crafted slings possible.

I do have plans for sling crafting, but be patient I need to complete other projects first.
Best Regards!
MAB

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SanneJ

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 12:36:41 PM »
Good to know those plans have not yet been forgotten, still looking forward to it! Thanks in advance :)
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ladylena

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2018, 01:05:31 PM »
Any plans to further the tailoring craft? It'd be amazing to be able to craft cloaks and gloves, superb if hood could ever be added.

I'd also suggest adding a hide that is more on par with the ebon tiger for move sliently.

MAB77

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2018, 01:57:08 PM »
Oh absolutely. And sooner than you think. A major overhaul of tailoring is my next big project.

Glove crafting is completed and will be implemented soon, as will support for chitin boots. My herbalism upgrade project is down to the very last few details and should be ready a bit after our upcoming NCE. Then I will focus more seriously on tailoring but I have already a plan of what it will entail.

It is not set in stone but, to wet your appetite, 4 textile type x 9 type of weaves x 3 types of tailored goods x 11 (and growing) exotic components. I trust this will keep you tailorer's busy and most happy.
Best Regards!
MAB

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Sinful Mystic

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2018, 01:58:35 PM »
I'm curious, in view of the discussion on negative varnishes. Has there been any thought to adding positive ones so paladins and other do gooders can hurt everything too without having red weapons that act like undead?

This will require further discussion among devs. There are several issues to address beyond the simple fact that +/- energies on weapons (and traps) are not behaving as they should per 3.5e rules.

Fair enough. I also would like to add that if it is ever done it probably would be better for it to be an inanimate source, like a mineral. Having good characters kill off angels and stuff for varnishes is silly.
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Iridni Ren

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2018, 02:40:07 PM »
I also would like to add that if it is ever done it probably would be better for it to be an inanimate source, like a mineral. Having good characters kill off angels and stuff for varnishes is silly.

Agreed, The source of a positive varnish would require some thought but would also be a great opportunity for creativity: How to make its derivation similar to all the others without having it involve parts of divine creatures?

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Quartermaster

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2018, 05:59:54 PM »
For divine varnishes and essences why not use gems? Diamonds are already in the loot tables, and can be used to bring the dead back to life (rather positive if you ask me)

I've been trying to figure out why a variable is placed on the empty potion bottle in the crafting scripts- never seen a crafting system done with variables on the components.- Anyway things that keep me up at night...

Some of the responses to my first post, got me thinking- I realize that crafting is suppose to be a time sink- and that making more than 1 "whatever" tends to remove said time sink. So I have a compromise to suggest- Based on that once the craft level of the PC is the same as or greater than the DC of what is being attempted, there is no chance of failure.. Why not add a check in system for crafter level, and if the level is equal to, or greater than the dc, every instance of that thing attempted to be made is counted, an animation duration is played- (based off of the current guess 10 seconds per item) and every crafted item is made, after the adjusted time animation of crafting. An example based on this idea:

The carpentry sawhorse, beech chunks DC10 to make beech planks. PC has level 10 in carpentry, puts in 10 beech chunks, clicks the saw, and then the saw horse.  The script does it things, recognizes that there is no chance of failure to make the planks, counts the chunks and plays the animation of crafting for 100 seconds, then replaces the chunks in the saw with the planks. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

As for other craftable suggestions: mauls, picks, light picks, heavy maces, falchions, and other CEP weapons need to be added to the smithing. I will even volunteer to make the items and submit them just need to know the tag and resref naming conventions used by the team.

Also throwing axes, and throwing hammers- these could be made like arrows- heads are made in the smithy, attached on wood handles at the wood crafting table , and could also be alchemic . Happy to make them too.

Thanks for reading!


Iridni Ren

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2018, 06:43:31 PM »
Quote
I've been trying to figure out why a variable is placed on the empty potion bottle in the crafting scripts- never seen a crafting system done with variables on the components.- Anyway things that keep me up at night..

It has to do with appraise. I personally would favor as many prices as possible be influenced by appraise to make the skill worth something, so I like it.

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Sinful Mystic

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2018, 07:27:01 PM »
Quote
I've been trying to figure out why a variable is placed on the empty potion bottle in the crafting scripts- never seen a crafting system done with variables on the components.- Anyway things that keep me up at night..

It has to do with appraise. I personally would favor as many prices as possible be influenced by appraise to make the skill worth something, so I like it.

Yeah wood working supplies seem to be immune to appraise, can't speak for smithing. Alchemy and herbalism are for sure appraise based.
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ViktorYouFool

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2018, 08:31:46 PM »
I also would like to add that if it is ever done it probably would be better for it to be an inanimate source, like a mineral. Having good characters kill off angels and stuff for varnishes is silly.

Agreed, The source of a positive varnish would require some thought but would also be a great opportunity for creativity: How to make its derivation similar to all the others without having it involve parts of divine creatures?

I literally just came to point that out. Negative varnishes make sense because they come from negative energy critters. Fire comes from fire critters. You start trying to get divine varnishes out there, and the very characters for whom they are intended would be unable to collect them.

MAB77

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2018, 07:45:31 AM »
Quote
I've been trying to figure out why a variable is placed on the empty potion bottle in the crafting scripts- never seen a crafting system done with variables on the components.- Anyway things that keep me up at night..

It has to do with appraise. I personally would favor as many prices as possible be influenced by appraise to make the skill worth something, so I like it.

It's completely unrelated. The variables used for crafting have 0 in-game impact outside the crafting process. Let's simply say the crafting script is a massive beast. Using variables is an efficient way to identify what is what and how a particular resource plays in said crafting system. It makes the script somewhat flexible and allows to add new resources with relative ease.
Best Regards!
MAB

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Iridni Ren

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2018, 10:09:03 AM »
I thought he was talking about how the cost of an empty potion bottle varies.

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Quartermaster

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2018, 01:05:51 PM »
I think the variable isn't transferring correctly on potions. Crafted potions do not sell, unless the stack is at 99, and then only for 1 gold. If this was the goal, then it works as intended, however it seems weird that a potion crafted is only worth .01% of 1 gold, and a non crafted potion of the same type can be as much as 220 sold to a store, and 1200+ sold at the store.

Wouldn't it be better to add to the cost of the individual crafted potion in the toolset? that way when it is created it's already got a set price of whatever. The store then on open would automatically take whatever price is on it and apply the appraise check to the NPC vs PC selling it..

Example cure light wounds, sells for around 10 gp (non crafted one) if the cure light wounds in the herbalism system spawned in that version of it- there wouldn't need to be variables placed on it in the system.

EO

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2018, 01:07:21 PM »
I think the variable isn't transferring correctly on potions. Crafted potions do not sell, unless the stack is at 99, and then only for 1 gold. If this was the goal, then it works as intended, however it seems weird that a potion crafted is only worth .01% of 1 gold, and a non crafted potion of the same type can be as much as 220 sold to a store, and 1200+ sold at the store.

Wouldn't it be better to add to the cost of the individual crafted potion in the toolset? that way when it is created it's already got a set price of whatever. The store then on open would automatically take whatever price is on it and apply the appraise check to the NPC vs PC selling it..

Example cure light wounds, sells for around 10 gp (non crafted one) if the cure light wounds in the herbalism system spawned in that version of it- there wouldn't need to be variables placed on it in the system.

This is intended; all crafted gear sells at very low prices because we don't want crafters to sell to NPCs, we want to encourage PC  to PC interactions, not PC to NPCs.

Iridni Ren

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2018, 03:55:06 PM »
Crafted potions do not sell, unless the stack is at 99, and then only for 1 gold. If this was the goal, then it works as intended, however it seems weird that a potion crafted is only worth .01% of 1 gold, and a non crafted potion of the same type can be as much as 220 sold to a store, and 1200+ sold at the store.

What's really weird is that a potion bottle with a potion in it is less than 1/10th the value of the bottle were you to dump the potion out :P

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Exordium

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2018, 04:41:42 PM »
Crafted potions do not sell, unless the stack is at 99, and then only for 1 gold. If this was the goal, then it works as intended, however it seems weird that a potion crafted is only worth .01% of 1 gold, and a non crafted potion of the same type can be as much as 220 sold to a store, and 1200+ sold at the store.

What's really weird is that a potion bottle with a potion in it is less than 1/10th the value of the bottle were you to dump the potion out :P
It's intended. Incentivizing PCs to get money is one way to set up interaction, which is always a goal for PoTM.

Quartermaster

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Re: Some crafting suggestions
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2018, 05:25:36 PM »
I support a PC interactive shop, but is this the best way to reach that goal?
There are a few problems with the current set up-
1. We end up with two versions of potions. One we can sell to a NPC, the other we can't.  Keeping track of what stack is what, is only possible once you open a NPC shop.
2.  I am not seeing in game a host of PC potion merchants. Most players seem to make their own potions, and try and sell the "junk" ones, and few buy them. More often the "junk" potions, remove fear, remove paralysis, type are left about in the Morning lord church. By the time a PC brings a decent amount of the more "useful" ones, they don't last if they choose to sell them at all. When compared to the smith craft PC stores, smithing is more common than the herbalist. (perhaps my perception in game is off here)
3. Should a PC sell potions, they are significantly under the price for the other type in the NPC stores.
4. What seems to happen is rather than a PC potion shop, in the Vallaki Outskirts player shop enthusiests get a are you buying herbs? or will you trade for herbs?

I suppose what I am hoping here is for less potion confusion over all. What if all the potions that dropped in the loot tables were the potions from the crafting system? wouldn't that end the double instance of the potion in game, make one stack, and eliminate the selling of the loot potions to the NPCs, making a more direct push to Player shops?