Author Topic: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat  (Read 955 times)

ViktorYouFool

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Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« on: February 22, 2018, 02:51:54 PM »
The mass spells are a neat addition to the game, but they feel a bit redundant in some ways. This is particularly painful for a sorcerer who has very limited spell selection to begin with by comparison.

Instead of having two versions of a whole number of spells, why not create a metamagic feat for it and be done with it?

Quote from: Mass Spell
Type of feat: metamagic (general feat)
Prerequisite: ability to cast 3rd-level spells

Specifics: The Mass Spell has its effects changed from a single target to a Large radius around the target.

Use: Occupies a slot four levels higher than normal. A Second circle spell would require a sixth level spell slot to cast. This is can only be used with spells that are intended for a single target. No other factor of the spell is unchanged.

RedwizardD

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 03:40:26 PM »
Well the first problem I see. Is you wouldn't be able to extend a spell cast as mass. Meaning that you have to cast/rest twice as often. That's painful for classes with fewer spells per day.

peps

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 03:56:37 PM »
Also some cleric spells for sure are single target, but only on allies. Mass versions of those spells would be exceptionally strong.

Norture

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 04:03:33 PM »
Could you imagine this with offensive spells. How would mass Isaac's lesser missile storm work. Or mass baleful polymorph. I'd be down for a mass create undead. Mass evards could be evards, but, with an absolutely giant area of effect. The entire map is tentacles, only halflings and gnomes survive.

Silas Rotleaf

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 04:09:20 PM »
I have mixed feelings about it.
Call me a weird stickler for tradition but I feel like I kind of get the thinking behind having mass versions of spells be a separate higher circle and while I do think mass versions of some spells we don't have one for yet would be cool I'm probably going to echo some of Norture's sentiment that some spells would just be kind of funky  to see go from being single target to AoE.

aprogressivist

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 04:24:14 PM »
Is it even possible to create a new Metamagic feat like this?
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A minor Glamour

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 04:51:14 PM »
It probably could be for defensive spells, but you know what ide say, screw everyone else, if your a sorcerer concentrate on protecting number 1 and let other people protect themselves.

MAB77

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2018, 02:05:56 AM »
Your idea does have merits, but you have to assess the ramifications such change would entail. In the standard D&D rules, "mass" spells are their own unique spells, they are not the product of a metamagic feat. That is why they have been implemented as they are. It is an important point as it means players are not required to invest in a specific feat to cast them. The change you propose would be helpful to sorcerers only while being hugely detrimental to all divine casters classes.

I certainly would see it as a sorcerer/bard only metamagic feat coexisting with the current system, but it would be overly complicated to script and implement for marginal gains only. And that's presuming the game engine would even let us add a metamagic feat to begin with, which is not possible right now as far as I know. It might change with EE.
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Norture

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2018, 10:08:33 AM »
Why sorcerer/bard and not wizard. :(

RedwizardD

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2018, 11:16:30 AM »
Why sorcerer/bard and not wizard. :(

I woould assume because wizards do not have spell list limits. A wizard can KNOW every arcane spell. Sorcs and Bards are uniquely limited in that regard.

MAB77

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2018, 11:24:47 AM »
Why sorcerer/bard and not wizard. :(

Because they don't need it? Why would you waste a feat to cast a spell at the same spell slot level the system already allows you to cast it at without said feat?

The idea of the feat as I'd see it would be to allow classes with restricted spell selection to be able to cast the "mass" version spells of buffing spells they already know. It would only work for spells that already have "mass" versions, but that'd be already a significant improvement for sorcerers and bards. As wizards have no restrictions on the number of spells they can learn, it is a not issue for them.

I would absolutely not be in favor of a feat that would make "mass" variants of any buffing spells. My nose bleed just thinking of the abuses this could create.

It's all theoretical though. The spells are already in exactly as per standard D&D rules, it is unlikely to change as we strive to emulate the D&D game as best as possible.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 11:29:35 AM by MAB77 »
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Norture

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2018, 11:39:21 AM »
I want to cast mass versions of offensive spells. It would be utterly ridiculous. Mass field spells make giant fields. Mass fireball throws fireballs in a cone around the target. Mass lesser missile storm creates even more missiles.

Iridni Ren

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2018, 11:40:51 AM »
Why would you waste a feat to cast a spell at the same spell slot level the system already allows you to cast it at without said feat?

In some cases (e.g., mass mage armor) a worse slot.

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Bad_Bud

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 11:19:19 AM »
Is it even possible to create a new Metamagic feat like this?

Nope...


buyonegetonefree

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2018, 04:19:11 PM »
Is it even possible to create a new Metamagic feat like this?

Nope...

What is usually considered as impossible task on PoTM was  alsready implimented on other PW NWN servers, perhaps you should reconsider?

EO

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2018, 04:28:57 PM »
Is it even possible to create a new Metamagic feat like this?

Nope...

What is usually considered as impossible task on PoTM was  alsready implimented on other PW NWN servers, perhaps you should reconsider?

Implementing actual new metamagic feats is impossible. You could probably do cheap workarounds using a toggle ability but it’d be inelegant at best.

Each of the large servers has made decisions in the way they’ve built their modules. Unfortunately the vast majority of NwN players have no clue what is and isn’t possible. If you want to toy with it and see the limits, you can start messing with the 2da’s and NwNx plugins, not to mention basic scripting.

Fiznok

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 08:10:56 AM »
Is it even possible to create a new Metamagic feat like this?

Nope...

What is usually considered as impossible task on PoTM was  alsready implimented on other PW NWN servers, perhaps you should reconsider?

Implementing actual new metamagic feats is impossible. You could probably do cheap workarounds using a toggle ability but it’d be inelegant at best.

Each of the large servers has made decisions in the way they’ve built their modules. Unfortunately the vast majority of NwN players have no clue what is and isn’t possible. If you want to toy with it and see the limits, you can start messing with the 2da’s and NwNx plugins, not to mention basic scripting.

This is something I'm actually quite interested in learning, but have no idea where to start. Are there any sources you would recommend that I look into (will take to DMs if so)?

A mass spell metamagic feat renders some already existing spells obsolete minus the perks of having the ability to apply a different metamagic feat. The application of said feat would create some serious balance issues for certain spells and would just create a lot of problems for the ones implementing it. I can already see a lot of "Why is x unable to be used with y" and I haven't been here very long. :P

Time_Stomped

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2018, 12:37:16 AM »
Mass Raise Dead / Mass Resurrection that gives you 1 + CHA modifier raises would be nice as a utility spell for mass wipe recovery.
Istavan Donner

MAB77

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2018, 05:56:24 AM »
We don't add custom spells. It has to be spells that exists in published d20 sources that can be properly implemented with the game engine.
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Time_Stomped

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2018, 08:27:28 AM »
We don't add custom spells. It has to be spells that exists in published d20 sources that can be properly implemented with the game engine.

One of them isn't a custom spell.  Mass Raise Dead's origin is in a published BioWare game, ironically.  It could only fit in for level 16-20 clerics and diamond requirements are still a thing in PotM.  Probably ends up being a gold sink.
Istavan Donner

Arcibel

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2018, 11:36:39 AM »
May be this could be applied to inofensive spells, like magic weapon etc, magic of support, add the restriction of school specialization and -10 in concentration when using the feat.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 11:42:19 AM by Arcibel »

ZeeBabits

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Re: Proposal: Mass Casting as a Metamagic Feat
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 08:20:44 PM »
We don't add custom spells. It has to be spells that exists in published d20 sources that can be properly implemented with the game engine.

One of them isn't a custom spell.  Mass Raise Dead's origin is in a published BioWare game, ironically.  It could only fit in for level 16-20 clerics and diamond requirements are still a thing in PotM.  Probably ends up being a gold sink.

The only mass raise dead ability that immediately comes to mind is the capstone for the Monk of the Healing Hand archetype published by Paizo.

True Sacrifice (Su)
At 20th level, in a final selfless act, a monk of the healing hand can draw in his entire ki, which then explodes outward in a 50-foot-radius emanation. All dead allies within the emanation are brought back to life, as if they were the subject of a true resurrection spell with a caster level equal to the monk’s level. When the monk does this, he is truly and utterly destroyed. A monk destroyed in this way can never come back to life, not even by way of a wish or miracle spell or by the power of a deity. Furthermore, the monk’s name can never be spoken or written down again. All written mentions of his name become nothing more than a blank space.

This ability replaces perfect self.

And while Baldur's Gate is a Bioware game that is based on a DnD system, I can't recall any official WotC published works containing a mass raise dead/mass resurrection spell.