Suggestion: Remove Roleplay Experience Restrictions

[RedwizardD]

I still wonder if the change in average level is corollary and not causal. Around the same time as this was originally put in, there was a big push to give high-levels incentive to be elsewhere and give them more to do to keep them elsewhere.

[Iridni Ren]

I still wonder if the change in average level is corollary and not causal. Around the same time as this was originally put in, there was a big push to give high-levels incentive to be elsewhere and give them more to do to keep them elsewhere.

Also, has the average level on the server overall changed (dropped)?

If the throttle was removed, I very much doubt that any significant number of high levels who are hanging out elsewhere would come rushing back.

A truly high level PC who is motivated primarily by XP gain isn't going to spend that much time "grinding" RP anywhere 

[EO]

I still wonder if the change in average level is corollary and not causal. Around the same time as this was originally put in, there was a big push to give high-levels incentive to be elsewhere and give them more to do to keep them elsewhere.

Of course it’s part of a whole. A few small things here and there contributed to it. We saw an increase in usage of higher level areas and an increase in average levels there accompanied by a decrease in the average level in the outskirts.

[BraveSirRobin]

The real rub with RP XP restrictions in areas like Vallaki, is that for me- I've never had a character who I've let XP dictate my decisions on. You don't gain any XP by the time you're level 13 at the Outskirts, yet one of my characters has a large amount of his roleplay centered out there. I'm not going to change that, artificially, because there's no-where else to go. Mist Camps, maybe, if you've got some bros to go dungeoning with. I have another dude who exists solely in Port-a-Lucine except for the odd trip to Barovia- And as a demi-human, I don't suspect my Dwarf will be going to Hazlan, either. So in order for me to progress appropriately, I am going to have to adopt an even more unhealthy solution to keep some sense of progression. Now note, I'm still not max level and this character has been played on/off for the last five years. So clearly roleplay is my initial priority with him. However, if I wanted to progress still, I would need to leave Barovia solely for the purpose of dungeoning in a circuit between four or five dungeons until I am so deep into Blind Drive that I can afford to return to Barovia and roleplay out the difference.

It's a mechanic that tries to punish people based on the average level of the individuals in a given area, however that OOC mechanic isn't going to really do anything significant in the long-term. The kind of person who cares enough about their roleplay put it before leveling in the first place, doesn't care if they're getting a morsel of complimentary RP XP for their convo along the road of the Outskirts, while discussing the latest AMPC on the loose and browsing the largest player item market location in the game. The kind of person who cares more about their XP than their RP, is going to run off dungeoning like an addict until they've pushed themselves to level 15+, then return to Barovia to do their roleplay knowing that they won't progress. It's a Catch 22.


What you might consider is instead of attempting to restrict progress for people who are pursuing the most popular roleplay locations, is instead offer extreme incentives to not stay in a forsaken backwater of xenophobia and extreme superstition. It's a pretty terrible domain, for anyone not a mundane Barovian that just wants to eat their turnips and run Guard duty. PaL offers some incentives to get players out that way, like the better paying jobs, higher-priced bounties and RP-centric atmosphere, but most players just travel to D'loo to hit the bounty boards, turn in a few relics then leave as quick as they came. Rentable housing exists there as another motivator, but even that only truly supports the people who have made characters with the sole intention of being there frequently.

[SanneJ]

I did not read the whole thread, but I would love to be able to get xp with my high level merchant in the OS of Vallaki while selling junk to low levels. I was already thinking of trying to get a exemption or something.

[Iridni Ren]

To reiterate, I'm fairly indifferent to this mechanic, but I will give an example I encountered recently that evidences it doesn't always work the way it's intended.

I was in a private office in Krofburg RPing with a very high level with the door locked, whispering a plot-related conversation. I still received the message throughout, despite not being in the Outskirts and not interacting with low levels.

Why? Because many extremely low levels pass through Krofburg on fetch quests. The overall area was considered low, even though the particular area my PC was in was behind a usually locked door and had only two high levels within it.

I suspect the same effect would happen in the locked areas of the Drain much of the time.

[Arawn]

To reiterate, I'm fairly indifferent to this mechanic, but I will give an example I encountered recently that evidences it doesn't always work the way it's intended.

To the contrary. Krofburg is a low-level zone; it's working exactly as intended. These restrictions aren't to nudge people from the Outskirts indoors, they're to nudge people out of western Barovia.

[Iridni Ren]

By next update, I've updated the roleplay XP script so that it will not reward you XP if you are in a low level zone and are a high level character. To make this easy to manage, the system works by tapping into an already existing feature that tracks the average level of all who've entered an area. This new change will make it so that you will only get roleplay XP if no more than 1.5x the average level of entries in that area (though area average is always considered as being at least 5)

As you might have guessed, this is to encourage higher levels to hang out away from low level zones.

If the intent is rather to "nudge people out of Western Barovia," then it need not have such an overly complicated mechanic.

Just don't give high levels RP XP in Western Barovia

[Arawn]

Just don't give high levels RP XP in Western Barovia

That's exactly what this system does, but it gives some latitude to people involved in faction play and generally staying out of high-traffic areas. It also dynamically adjusts based on current average levels in a way far more nuanced than simply turning the system off at the mist barrier.

[Niffie]

It's not.

It actually is. We have stats on that we’ve been compiling for years. Average level in the outskirts has gone down since we implemented those changes.

To my very limited knowledge, the only effect it has had is to have mid to high level characters move to the Mist camp, and then roll on an alt to go back to the outskirts. And or ignore the xp restriction and still venture back, since the Mist camp is the devils butthole 90% of the time, and Dementlieu simply being too big for people get a general idea of where the gathering of RP'ers is happening. Having to zone around that city to find RP is in my estimation a huge contribution as to why it'll never be a hub like the Outskirts. Also, let's not forget; the rules and laws of Port A Lucine is vastly different from that of the Outskirts, and it might even rub certain characters(IC wise) the wrong way.

This issue of RP experience restriction goes much deeper, and it's something that sorely needs addressing. My RP drops significantly as soon as I hit level 10+ and I feel like I'm excluded from the main hub that is the outskirts, and I more often than not is speculating about what new character to roll. The mist camp is a terrible gathering spot, since it requires a several minutes transition window, that prevents people from quickly scouting the area for possible RP/company. The LFRP system is a neat idea, but it has two flaws; People don't want to use it cause it seems desperate. And certain people have standards of quality, which you can't judge through said system.

I don't know how the MPC system works, or if it's already possible.. but perhaps giving players the choice to either roll in as a high level monster pc with restrictions to higher level zones might give a small burst of interest for people to hang around the Mist camp for some spontanous RP, as opposed to the Outskirts?

[Dukica]

Dementlieu's barrier is more of the social kind and less of the location kind, most of the RP is done in the Quartier Publique, or at least it usually begins there, with the players separating/moving into more discrete places (cafès, parks, etc.). In addition, as you said it rubs people the wrong way, that's certain, but some people are allowed more freedom in Port (eg. casters, who can cast non-maliciously with a permit instead of being lynched). You can make way more faux-pas in Dementlieu, and be seen as strange, but that's just one facet of xenophobia one can feel, same as Barovia. The main thing is that the Outskirts are the outlander hub, and people wanting to RP there is obviously important for some. I personally find the system rather brusque, as it mechanically sweeps all higher levels into the same basket. I with my level 10 character avoid conflicting with MPCs and I don't consider myself strong with them, and if I were to meet them, I'd merely advise against combat. I'm sure a lot of people have the same idea.

I feel as if the system shouldn't reduce XP, and instead give a warning "You are a high level in a low level marked area, please do not engage in hostile activities unless necessary nor act overly antagonistic unless prompted with RP", basically "no hit eM Pee Cee, mmkay", as making everyone suffer due to a powergaming, low RP few is frankly ridiculous.

[NWN_lovableweremink]

This is going to be a long one, so please bear with it.
Since this thread has mentioned a number of systems in place that skirt the original post about the RP level xp restriction on 10th level + characters, and the general layout of the areas of the server I feel it's all pretty much open game at this point. This will be a blunt critique, despite the love of the server. Please do not take this as bashing, rather as perhaps a idea of where things can improve overall, and help change some of the RP corner that some of the systems have painted us into.

1st. Adding a restriction to RP on a RP server is idiotic. It's like trying to curtail action on an action server- why would anyone want to put restrictions on the focus? High levels will continue to interact with low levels until either the high levels gain access to all the resources, that abound the Vallaki side of Barovia, in the high level areas, or their access to that side of Barovia is cut off to them. In a previous post I mentioned cutting off the Vallaki areas via the Vistani who sells the elixir to get through the choking fog. At least with this option lower levels would be forced to trek to the higher levels in the VoB. This might actually make the VoB a new base of High level operation rather than a pass through for the "dungeons" on the other side of it.

2nd, Higher level non "dungeon" areas of the server, and countries are a joke. Standing around at night in the Village of Barovia for instance will cause nothing to spawn. The VoB, even with the multiple detailed description messages as you walk through, is one of the safest places in all of Barovia night or day.
 
3rd The mist camp is completely ruining the server. What it is, is an island of outside the terror zone that tends to turn into an OOC waiting area. Once enough higher leveled characters actually meet up there and decide to go adventure- then there is RP. Otherwise there is just standing and waiting.
The Vistani store has become the go to sell place for the entire server.. "Hello welcome to Vistani Walmart get your crap and get out".
The crafting tent there only removes the need to return to the realms of the server.
The one wagon out of the camp in a sea of wagons is ridiculous. If the Vistani are interested in making coins off of the stupid Giorgio then there should be more wagons going out.

4th. The mist ways to get to the realms is horribly under valued by the layout of the server. You can't get into the mist from countries unless you come out of the mist.. silly.

 5th. Resources, Resources, Resources! This is still the main reason those high levels travel to the starting areas of Vallaki. It's not just the herbs either. Not every character starts out and does all the crafting from the get go. Some start the various crafting disciplines at high levels. What if a 15th level wants to start alchemy? They are not going to start with lich brains.. No, they will travel back to Vallaki and start with beetle mandibles. At the heart of every thing in the server, as in real life, Risk vs. Reward... A bunch of crafting regents, with no possible negative outcome except no RP xp? no problem..

So how to change it? split the server even more? Put in that level check in the elixir selling Vistani conversation? Just remove the RP XP restriction and cave to what has been made, and how it is being utilized?

My suggestion. First open the boarders from the east side of the VOB to Hazlan. make it a very simple Barovia/1-2mist area/Hazlan transition. There can be encounters in it, but overall make it a non get lost/ wander aimlessly way.
Add a transition from Hazlan ((perhaps in the old temple being excavated..)) to Perfidus ((I assume that Perfidus is in the Nightmare Lands)) This transition can be much harder in the mist, and encounters.
From Hazlan add a ship transition to Dementlieu- make the ship like the current Wagon ride.
Use Dementlieu the only way to get to Blustien, and the other islands. Use the newly made long ship area for the transition.
Keep the mist ways, and the existing exits currently in them, open those ways. Make the Mists the only way to get to Sithicus, Har'Akir, and the existing Mist Camp. Allow for the Vistani to take people to every location for 2000 gold. A one way only, no return to MC.
Open the mists in each area set to the mist ways.
Add the DM only areas that are currently apart of the server- That haunted mansion, that paladin realm ((I forget the name of them)) Make these mist only accessible areas for levels 12-18.

Step 2:
Add more dungeons, and flesh out existing areas, to the existing realms of the server-
Night time should be deadly in most of the outside areas.. open existing hidden dungeons in those realms if they have them. (a certain sphinx one comes to mind)

Step 3: There has been a flood of overpowered gear in the last couple of years. Silver gilding in particular went from a +1, to a +2. The outcome of all this has turned what was hard into a much easier game overall, and made the fear something that is laughed at. It is time to put the fear back into Ravenloft.

Step 4: In Vallaki in particular, the consolidation of the crafting halls, and with it the Vistani Walmart next to the outskirts has turned the large city of Vallaki a pass through. Return the crafting disciplines back to their original shops. Adjust the Vistani shop to just buy scrolls. Make the Armorer only buy armor. The weapon shop weapons, and so on. Make selling loot from stuff take time, and most importantly happen in the Vallaki Market District!
Remove the 1 gp selling price from crafted items. Allow these crafted items to be sold at the shop that sells those sorts of things, for reasonable prices. A potion of ghostly visage found in the loot, is sold by the Vistani for 1200 gp. A crafted ghostly visage potion sells for 0, or a stack of 50 for 1gp.... (((What this tells me, is there are at least 2 versions of the ghostly visage potion in the mod. At some point all the doubled things are only helping to reach the 16k limit that NWN has.))) Doing this will remove the "need" to go sell crafted gear to the lower levels for a acceptable price!

Step 5 Let the high level/low level RP happen- why not add a exit from the mist ((1% chance at level 10, increasing to 40% chance at level 20)) for high levels to get stuck in the VOB areas and become twisted into AMPC style with the 6 month end of life? there are a number of things that could be implemented to make this viable, not just a "Monster" template.. A 19th level wizard could be bested by a gang of lower levels if caught at the right time. Things like making 10+ level only able to rest in an inn. No way to re-spawn if killed in the Vallaki areas. On death drop everything that is in the inventory. Once such a event were to happen a DM could be notified to help out the lower levels..

I hope this inspires some RP!

[Nemesis 24]

I was going to sleep but this previous post actually riled me, so I'm going to respond to it.

1st.  There's multiple fairly good reasons for the RP restriction in Vallaki.  As been shown by data which the DM's do have, its spread the playerbase out and put the higher levels in higher level zones like they should be.  This gives the lower levels in Vallaki a chance to shine at the very least.

2nd.  The areas you are talking about are safer mechanically.  They are monumentally more dangerous RP wise.  Standing in the VoB causes nothing to spawn because anything that's there knows better than to mess around -on Strahd's doorstep.-  They hide.  And for good reason.  People 'do' use the VoB on occasion, the Morninglord faction was highly successful there, but they were asked to move to Vallaki for various valid reasons IC.  VoB is not meant to be a player hub, Vallaki is, and thats why it has the threats it does as well.

3.  This is frankly a very silly statement to make and based from a very poor point of view.  The Mist Camp serves as a very necessary neutral ground, a melting point of both conflicts, growth, and also as a place where many characters have next to no choice but to go to, such as RDD characters and other high OCR characters who cannot exactly walk around anywhere else, but also enjoy dungeoning, which is a part of the server.  But there is a lot of RP that takes place there, some of the best discussions and confrontations that I've seen on the server have taken place there.  The Vistani are there to make money, and they do.  The crafting tent is there because some folks don't actually have an alternative and convenience isn't a crime, funnily enough.

The mist ways are imprecise, extremely dangerous and the Vistani exist because they can navigate them fairly easily.  A medium to low level character cannot use them safely.  They are random, getting to places like Perfidus is hard enough, having completely random travel based on guesswork is not fear, its tedium, and charging players 2000 gold not to be frustrated is just incredibly cruel.  There needs to be a balance for actual playability.

The suggestions.  Funnily enough, some characters have very good reason not to go to Hazlan.  Any non human has a -very- good reason to never go to Hazlan in fact.  Its a dangerous place and not for characters to just waltz through on their way to someplace else.  Forcing people to have no choice but to go there is just an exercise in unnecessary tedium and frustration for absolutely no gain other than you not liking it as it currently is for other people.

Any suggestion forcing people to use the random changing mistways to get to core domains is just being vindictive.  I've had enough frustration trying to find Perfidus, I've been trying to get adamantium enough to make a sword -since it was introduced to the server- and have a single ingot.  I will violently oppose half the server only being accessible by such an imprecise, dangerous and outright difficult means.

Adding more dungeons requires tremendous effort and balancing.  Its not simply something to throw at the server, and more than that, your suggestions just made most of those dungeons the work of tedious perhaps hours of searching to reach.  Imagine if someone got there just ahead of you.

Gear is here to stay, rightly or wrongly.  Fear is something you the player should be enforcing.  And you can do that at level 2 or level 20, and you should.  There are plenty of things to fear rather than mechanical power or ability.  The only way you'd get around it now is by punishing everyone who's worked hard to get the gear you resent.  I can think of only one other way to kill the enjoyment of a huge part of the player base, that being a server wipe.  No one likes seeing all their hard work (and I use the term loosely, but its a fair enough descriptor) get ripped away from them.

Making it so people have to go to a specific store to sell specific gear is meaningless busy work and tedium once again, frustration for absolutely no gain whatsoever, no rp made or enjoyment found.

This last one for a percentage chance to mechanically force closure on a player is frankly ludicrous, by turning everyone into AMPC's.   40% chance?  Forcing a high level character to never be able to travel anywhere again?  I completely fail to see any point to this at all save to punish people and players and force them to closure their character.  Players have the right to choose how their story goes, and ends, and are trusted (quite rightly) to end it at the right time.  Have some faith in your fellow players, and explore the AMPC system (which would be savagely punished by having high levels be encouraged to be in Vallaki.)

Frankly having the RP restriction slows down levelling.  I'd be 18 or so by now if I had it, and wouldn't be able to avoid it, even though I don't really dungeon any more on the character I have there.  It works, and there's a good reason for it, and it in fact helps you play your story out by giving you more time to do it.  It might be frustrating to the continual gaining, but its not that bad, and there's good reasons to have it.

Anyway, sorry to be blunt there, but I felt it necessary.  Those suggestions are almost universally more harmful than good.

[Iridni Ren]

Frankly having the RP restriction slows down levelling.  I'd be 18 or so by now if I had it, and wouldn't be able to avoid it, even though I don't really dungeon any more on the character I have there.  It works, and there's a good reason for it, and it in fact helps you play your story out by giving you more time to do it.  It might be frustrating to the continual gaining, but its not that bad, and there's good reasons to have it.

I'm going to respond to this mostly to try to narrow the focus back to the topic because the last two posts have enough in them for several threads.

The purpose of the RP restriction is not to slow down levelling. Soren originally posited it as an incentive to move high levels away from low level areas; Arawn has restated it as to nudge high levels out of Western Barovia. If slowing levelling were the purpose, it would be misguided in that it encourages dungeoning and the sacrifice of RP. In other words, if high level PCs (only high levels are affected by the RP restriction) are levelling too quickly, then a more effective (and more server-appropriate) fix would be to raise XP requirements for high levels across the board.

Regarding story, I actually think this OOC mechanic is detrimental. For those of us who value story, we will generally ignore it, but in point of fact nudging PCs out of an area that is their natural habitat and away from those they've built their stories with is a brute force solution that has no relationship to what might be happening in the PC's life.

Consider that the RP restriction most harms those who RP the most. Extensive RP is a good indication that the PC is story-driven. If story elements gave the PC an IC reason to relocate, she likely would. One problem (aside from many that have already been repeatedly covered in this thread) is that there's not a natural plot flow from Barovia to, say, Port.

Dread recently provided a good IC reason for Verinne to ditch Krofburg and seek greener pastures, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Typically in a game, high levels would at some point defeat the local boss and then move on to greater challenges. But there is no defeating of Strahd or really any other plot reason that most PCs would decide Vallaki is no longer for them.

[Folly]

I agree with the previous post, I've normally felt that way about it, though not able to word it all.

I also feel like the number of players on the server is insufficient for us to spread out over the different regions the mist camp can take us too.
I've really not gotten around Barovia that much and its pretty big. I sorta wish there was another hub in Barovia itself which was situated around harder enemies/animals/dungeons to start a transition if at all to harder areas instead of mist camp travel.    Going to the mist camp is basically saying goodbye.

And if I take my character to a new region, I fear there will barely be anyone around to do things with, the whole incentive for why I play the game.
So I need to get people to want to go to said region and stay there to do things together. And it means coordinating all the time with other people to get them to log on to those PC's, because I assume when we are not all organised at the new region, they will be playing an ALT located in Barovia. (maybe this isnt as bad as it sounds, but to me it seems troublesome)

Id like to brainstorm solutions to this problem in a form of IC roleplay for why people would leave barovia (i dont feel satisfied with any i list here...)
I feel like DM's could periodically do a culling/weeding out of higher level players in some kinda event.  Only the higher levels will survive some trial, or be permitted to take up a quest of sorts.  in some manner it leads them in pursuit of the next region. You know like maybe some noble's daughter is kidnapped and taken away to the region by some powerful enemy. Or vistani send you on a quest for some magical item(dont know if we can make up a non-canon magic item).  im not a dm, im not well read of ravenloft, just throwing the idea that some DM event occurs that sends people elsewhere.

But let's say this event did happen, and a bunch of high level players(level 12+ ? - im not sure what level range we aiming for)  moved on.
Will those high level players keep playing or will they eventually get bored, and then their numbers start dwindling till eventually activity is scarce?

I could be completely misinformed, maybe those other regions have plenty of activity currently.   But I like the number of people I see around Vallaki and i would hope there are that many in the region we would migrate to.

[FellowMan]

I hope I'm correct in this being the most recent iteration of this thread.

It is still the case that this incentive to roleplay in higher-level areas chokes factions based in Vallaki, of which there are several, and whose constituents can't simply "move on to a higher level iteration of the same RP," because there are none. (As in the case of the Drain. There is no higher level underworld to base factions out of.)

I don't recall what came of the suggestion that certain areas, at least, be exempted from the system, but I am still strongly in favor of a change like that.

[volski01]

It's good, and bad, for having certain restrictions like this.

It's good, because it tries to nudge away higher level PCs away from Vallaki, which given it is the start point of the game outside being teleported to another domain. It keeps high level PCs from hanging about and often preventing DMs/MPCs from wanting to do events and or plots without old PCs coming in to vanquish the new big bad. As a lower level, going through a plot with an MPC just to have the villian 420 booty blasted by some level 20 is a bit of a kick to the teeth, and a very unsatisfying ending.

It's bad, because as some one who was apart of one of the factions based out of Vallaki, you stop getting roleplay experience and some incentive to stay in Vallaki. Though you could argue that you should roleplay for the sake of it, and your reward should be the warm tingly feeling you get inside when you roleplay, not XP ticks. But something, anything, would be  nice to keep the desire to go back into Vallaki and other start zones.

[FellowMan]

It is a very well-intentioned system that succeeds at what it's meant to do by discouraging level 13+ characters from lingering in Vallaki.

Unfortunately, many, many characters have roleplay that is partially or entirely based in Vallaki, and the current system asks them to seek mechanical progression in ways and places they probably can't fully explain IC.

Ezrites, Morninglordians, Vallaki Red Vardo Traders, Wayfarers, and Ratters all have to live a double life of doing their character's actual story in the place they're supposed to be doing it maybe half the time, and spending the rest of their time in places that are not the place they're supposed to be, trying to level up in conventional ways.

Ideally, leveling up would not be seen as important or necessary for the fun of the game. Realistically, though, few things are as crucial for a character as keeping pace with his or her contemporaries.

[FinalHeaven]

Personally, I'm always going to roleplay where those I'm looking to interact with are located regardless of a system attempting to encourage me not to.  I'm of the heavy opinion that it has no real place on a roleplay server at all but I acknowledge what it is trying to do even if I don't think it succeeds.   

That being said, at the very least, it really should not apply to faction bases/locations for the reasons already stated.

[Little Lotte]

It is a very well-intentioned system that succeeds at what it's meant to do by discouraging level 13+ characters from lingering in Vallaki.

Unfortunately, many, many character have roleplay that is partially or entirely based in Vallaki, and the current system asks them to seek mechanical progression in ways and places they probably can't fully explain IC.

Ezrites, Morninglordians, Vallaki Red Vardo Traders, Wayfarers, and Ratters all have to live a double life of doing their character's actual story in the place they're supposed to be doing it maybe half the time, and spending the rest of their time in places that are not the place they're supposed to be, trying to level up in conventional ways.

Ideally, leveling up would not be seen as important or necessary for the fun of the game. Realistically, though, few things are as crucial for a character as keeping pace with his or her contemporaries.

+1. And as FinalHeaven stated, I personally will go where my faction role play is despite my high level and that is Vallaki.

[Khornite]

I'm all for removing the RP EXP restrictions.

There's a lot of issues that I see with the removal of RP EXP in Vallaki and the surrounding areas, really. Firstly, Vallaki is the "capital" of the server, try as a character might, they're going to have to go to Vallaki at some point. Want to pick up a new craft skill? Vallaki's the best place for that. Are you an herbalist who needs herbs? Well, even with Hazlan, Vallaki is still the best place. Did spring just hit and want to buy up some herbs to help both yourself and the lower level characters? Guess you're going to Vallaki. Got to grind up some smithing levels so you can work adamantine? You're going Vallaki-way. You want to do any kind of crafting? Well you CAN go elsewhere, but Vallaki is STILL the best place. Are you a merchant PC and have some wares to sell? Well, all the people who are going to be buying up the lower level gear are in Vallaki! You need Viccar's Caps for those healing potions that sell out so fast? Well, those only spawn in lowbie areas.

Secondly, the system as it is gives an OOC reason for characters to avoid an area IC. Why punish people for not letting OOC determine their IC actions? Higher levels are going to want to run dungeons, they're going to want to seek out rare crafting components like adamantine or rare herbs and try to stick near to where those items appear already. The walk from Vallaki to the Mist Camp is a chore, even WITH the ferry, so high levels are further encouraged to stick to the mist camp just to stay closer to the dungeons they want to travel to.

The unfortunate consequence of the RP EXP restriction is that it place a hard restriction on guard characters or characters that are tethered to Vallaki for whatever reason. I can think of quite a few high level characters in factions like the Morninglord Church or the Drain.

Then comes the MPC situation. I have seen at least half a dozen characters approach higher level characters in the mist camp to help deal with MPCs like Vashan or the red werewolf. There's really no reason why some high level PCs wouldn't be there helping lower level people tackle those monsters and given how potent some of the MPCs can be, some high level characters are even getting thrashed left and right by the MPCs, especially when they have DM assistance. For example, a character approached mine and mentioned that Vashan had some ritual in mind to kill a ton of barovian children. My character leans to the good side of things, he's DEFINITELY going to want to make sure hundreds of babies don't just up and die. But knowing that higher level characters are encouraged away from Vallaki and the plots that take place there, I had to have my character act based on that OOC ruling. Some of us try to find a middle ground where we give lower level characters every possible chance before stepping in, but it's still a LOT of OOC motivation that ends up determining our IC actions which is contradictory to so much of what POTM is about.

Mentorship angles to RP also hit a snag with this as the lower level character in the RP is going to want to stick near Vallaki, while the higher level wants to be in places where they can earn EXP and such.

Furthermore, regardless of what server you're on, people tend to cling around the starting areas. They're the most familiar, they're the ones they know the best.

TL;DR: Vallaki has been built up to be very important to the server. This is one of the few instances where OOC determines what you do IC on the server. Vallaki is still the crafting capital of the server, higher levels are going to always have reason to need to head to Vallaki.

[zDark Shadowz]

Players around Vallaki don't need to be high level. Just makes things problematic for new antagonist PCs that can't get past Lady's Rest or try anything risky without getting bonked on by characters that could get to lvl 20 without ever needing to leave the Outskirts.

I don't know, being able to get to lvl 20 without the slightest bit of risk doesn't sit right with me.

Characters in Vallaki don't need to be high level as it is, and if you point at MPCs well, some MPCs aren't meant to be beatable, they're like the weather.

Sure you can noonday sun it but didn't you come to a gothic horror setting for the night?

[PlatointheCave]

[snip]

As someone that regularly plays antagonists I find this to be a very blinkered view:

20s come and hang in the outskirts often with or without the system. This system actually makes it harder for antagonists to progress to a point where they're remotely capable of competing with enchanted geared up high levels.

Second, I find the notion that Vallaki is the "lower risk" area backwards.

Dungeons are not risky. They are not hard to do with a level appropriate party. If you die, at worst, you need to wait to be rescued. There's no story there for risk to happen. No real stakes.

Vallaki factions and many PCs are actively engaged in story with stakes and risk daily. The same is true of any political environment.  Which would be fine if they only ended up dealing with PCs from that environment. But people will regularly drag the PCs that spend their time grinding at the MC into those conflicts. The issue is one of design.

The RPXP system does not keep high levels out, it keeps PCs and faction players that are glued to the city from reaching a point where they can engage effectively with the 20s that do come in. Let's not pretend the people creating story in Vallaki deserve to be trod on by the grinders, because that's the effect of this system.

It only takes one geared up high level out to swing their schlong around to undermine the system.

[Agony]

I don't know, being able to get to lvl 20 without the slightest bit of risk doesn't sit right with me.

Most PCs can already do that, if they want to. They just need to take the ferry to VoB or MC area and RP there. At worst, they might need to run past some ogres.

As someone with a garda PC, I am 100% for removing this. It doesn't stop the higher levels from coming back, but it does drive people away from the faction once they hit the cap. This is especially problematic for the garda PCs, as they can't even travel somewhere else temporarily to earn RP XP.

[Khornite]

I don't know, being able to get to lvl 20 without the slightest bit of risk doesn't sit right with me.

Most PCs can already do that, if they want to. They just need to take the ferry to VoB or MC area and RP there. At worst, they might need to run past some ogres.

As someone with a garda PC, I am 100% for removing this. It doesn't stop the higher levels from coming back, but it does drive people away from the faction once they hit the cap. This is especially problematic for the garda PCs, as they can't even travel somewhere else temporarily to earn RP XP.

^This. I remember way back when, there were a few guards who were able to bring the smack down on even level 20s. If a level 15+ caliban or villain decided to go wild on the guards, it would basically be a game of wack-a-mole.