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Author Topic: Refiring traps  (Read 9968 times)

Little Lotte

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2017, 01:16:13 AM »
I'm gonna be honest. I love the new refiring traps. Ppl actually have to slow down to go through a dungeon now. There is this hard push which i can understand at times. Heck sometimes i'm pressed for time myself.

I have heard nothing but good things from the rogues i know about the new changes. They all seem to have the same thing to say "Sounds like I'm useful now"

Let me give you an example of something that happened to me the very day before the changes:


*while party of four is walking to Anubis*
Party Member 1: Fearghas do you know how to handle traps?
Fearghas: He does and locks

Party Member 1: Oh good

*party arrives at dungeon and "party member 2" instead of waiting for the 5 seconds each it takes to search and disarm the trap runs forward and starts using an item to summon creature over the traps in rapid succession.  Faster then i could even type.  Completely making useless any rogue that cant instead just fight*

-Now people need to have someone that actually deals with traps to go to a place that is literally known for Traps. I mean our RL cliche comparison for harakir is egypt. You need your indiana jones like person.

-Dwarven method didnt work for the germans in Indiana Jones the Last Crusade. If I remember right alot of guys died from resetting beheading trap. Had to send in someone that knew how to get around the traps/disarm them

PS: As far as the example I gave I cant really fault the people to much. It is the norm for ppl that dont have skills with traps or often its just more reliable to burn a summon over a trap even if you do know how to. I mean its so fast and assured instead of searching/waiting/accidently stepping on trap during disarm cause glitch/possibly retry to put better gear on cause your off by 1 point. Just Boom boom boom. And your done. Those little goat figurines that summon badgers are worth thier weight in gold. There are a few other cheap tricks that still can be used by even a 1st lvl character to make a master locksmith/trapper look like a chump. Many of us know of these. I wont name them but come on they are super cheap and they are just ways to get around rogues being used.

+1. As a pure rogue, I am super excited for these changes!

booksarefun666

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2017, 01:57:39 AM »
Faerghas accurately explained my feelings on it too.

MJ_Johansson

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2017, 09:23:04 AM »
I'm not sure I understand the problem, or why anyone's saying rogues are weak.. I played a Rogue this NCE and it was so much fun. Yeah you wont steamroll a skeleton, but sneak-attacking werewolves was well-worth it. As for the refiring traps, it makes sense to me? It'll make people realize the value of rogues and stop the dwarven method in its track, unless you have a group of Barbarians or something like that.

Pretty logical change, sure, the re-firing on the same person should be fixed but they said it would be so.. Besides, I've done literally every dungeon on the server, and several times. Traps have never been an issue besides in Har'akir/Sithicus/perfidus, Har'akir it makes thematic sense, and i dont see why you shouldnt need a trap expert to handle a temple full of.. You guessed it.. Traps.  The others are high level late game dungeons, where you should die terribly if you mess up and step on a trap.
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Syl

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2017, 01:58:30 PM »
I have to agree with MJ here, I have played a pure rogue who is now my highest level character and they have been taken to Har'akir since level 9 with the help of a few buffs was able to clear out all the traps in the temples. Now, she only needs help for the epic traps but that's for her personal reason of collection. I've had to not use my rogue gear for so long when I was taken to Sithicus I was Super stoked to see I needed them! Bummed about the loot though... heh..

Anyways I think it makes perfect sense that the Har'akir dungeons are littered with traps galor and many of them can keep being triggered due to swinging blades or spiked floors and walls. these were meant to keep people out and protect what is left inside from grave robbers like us.

it's a bit disappointing that people are now commenting on the possible need for Rogues, when many folks often multi class into them and dump points into Tumble, UMD, Open lock, and disable. often causing the need for other rogues in the party to have little use outside another body.

The fact the traps do keep triggering I say there shouldn't be a reason to change it, brings in realism for those dungeons and will have others have to look for Rogues that could handle the traps. 

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Knight of Rhodes

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2017, 01:13:47 PM »
I don't like this particular change, as every failed attempt triggers traps additionally.  I think it's a bit overkill.

Moved here,  in regards to trap bashing forcing a trigger to autoopen chests,  resulting in failed attempts auto springing traps.

I believe it to be overkill,  as the chest doesn't open and theoretically shouldn't release any mechanism.  Just how I see it!

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HopeIsTheCarrot

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2017, 01:25:29 PM »
I don't like this particular change, as every failed attempt triggers traps additionally.  I think it's a bit overkill.

Moved here,  in regards to trap bashing forcing a trigger to autoopen chests,  resulting in failed attempts auto springing traps.

I believe it to be overkill,  as the chest doesn't open and theoretically shouldn't release any mechanism.  Just how I see it!

I personally feel rather neutral on this issue. On one hand I can see where this mechanical change could be frustrating or seen as overkill. However, I can also see where it would often make sense that bashing a lock with a crowbar could also result in the chest/door/etc. flying open.

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2017, 04:05:08 AM »
I don't like this particular change, as every failed attempt triggers traps additionally.  I think it's a bit overkill.

Moved here,  in regards to trap bashing forcing a trigger to autoopen chests,  resulting in failed attempts auto springing traps.

I believe it to be overkill,  as the chest doesn't open and theoretically shouldn't release any mechanism.  Just how I see it!

We will look at it :-)

julienchab

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #82 on: November 19, 2017, 03:18:44 PM »
I'm repeating myself, but well. Today we had a strong group of lvl 18+ people. Mage, druid, cleric, frontliner. But no higher level rogue was online to adventure with us so we had no possibility to tackle dungeons suitable for our level that would give us a good challenge. Could have handled any dungeon we wanted if we had swapped the mage/druid/cleric for a rogue, but with the new refiring traps, it's made rogues the sole mandatory class for any single dungeon now. There is no way around it, which is very disapointing.

Arawn

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #83 on: November 19, 2017, 03:39:05 PM »
Can you enumerate the specific points through which you could not proceed without a rogue?
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julienchab

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #84 on: November 19, 2017, 03:56:05 PM »
Traps? Before the change to traps, you could still manage to work your way around them, having one person triggering them and taking the damage, or using summons. Now you can't meaning that everyone in your party needs to take the nasty 150 damage fire trap to the face... which makes not it very realistic both to do the dungeon and for an IC view point.

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #85 on: November 19, 2017, 04:02:06 PM »
Traps? Before the change to traps, you could still manage to work your way around them, having one person triggering them and taking the damage, or using summons. Now you can't meaning that everyone in your party needs to take the nasty 150 damage fire trap to the face... which makes not it very realistic both to do the dungeon and for an IC view point.

What Arawn and Soren asked is specific examples of where this happens and where it completely stops you from adventuring. You've remained very vague in your feedback, which doesn't help finetune the system at all.

julienchab

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #86 on: November 19, 2017, 04:20:06 PM »
Ah more specific examples.

Ghastrian church: The doors are all set with traps, and even after unlocking them, you trigger the trap every time you try to open it, and it stays closed. There is a way around it but it requires a very specific high level spells to do it, and will stop most groups.

Ghastrian Cave: No traps in this dungeon.

Sithicus Barrow: There is many floor traps and door traps there that will do very big fire damage and medium divine damage. One place specifically, you open a door and mobs appear, and there is a divine trap right behind it. The first person would usually take the damage, but now everyone will have to take it. Also, there is 3 or 4 epic fire traps in this dungeon I believe, which means that without a rogue, people will get roasted.

Sithicus Salt Mines: No traps here other than on chests for now. Will need to be tested if traps are added.

Anubis temple: The two first corridors can't be done without a rogue since the divine traps have a DC of over 35. Same for the doors that are trapped with negative type energy. The others traps being of DC 35, other classes can be able to disable them.

Harvest temple: This dungeon at refiring traps in the first corridor already, but they were DC 35, making it possible for other classes to disable it as well. I haven't done it since the change though, but some of the doors are trapped with divine and spike, so it would need to be tested.

Hotep temple: Doors seems to work fine even with the poison traps, and the dispelling trap can we worked around by buffing after them. I don't see any problems here.

Hazlan Curst: No traps other than on chests, which aren't so much of a problem.

Hazlan Fire Caves: No traps.

Perfidus: No traps here neither, except on the chests of loot.

Blaustein: No traps.

I might have forgotten some, but I hope that helps.

EO

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2017, 04:27:37 PM »
It does; I think Soren is trying to fix the bug with traps preventing doors/containers from being opened and we are looking into making it so that traps only fire once the door/object is open, not before.

Keep in mind that, bugs aside, traps never prevent you from completing a dungeon, they just make it harder. If each party member takes 150 damage from an epic trap in a high level dungeon, they can either get a rogue in the party or use buffs to soak the damage or heal. It will just make the dungeon harder and force people to rethink their strategies or bring a rogue if they don't think they can spare the spells/potions needed.

julienchab

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2017, 04:31:12 PM »
Most containers seem to be fine, from what I've seen, although doors are a problem. However, I must disagree that taking 150 damage from an epic trap will stop people from doing a dungeon when there is mobs waiting behind those traps to kill you. Buffs can be used yes, and heals as well, which is what people will probably do in the end, but it will mean people will have to rest more and more to do those dungeons, as they will pass one trap and group of ennemies and they will have to rest because they used their buffs to pass a trap instead of fighting.

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #89 on: November 19, 2017, 04:32:31 PM »
I bet the answer to this is "no," but is there any way to make traps spawn somewhat randomly (like herbs)?

Greater uncertainty about secret doors and traps would seem to make rogue skills more useful without the need for repeat firing.

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2017, 04:35:58 PM »
I bet the answer to this is "no," but is there any way to make traps spawn somewhat randomly (like herbs)?

Greater uncertainty about secret doors and traps would seem to make rogue skills more useful without the need for repeat firing.

We are working on uncertainty. We don't see it as mutually exclusive with repeat firing.
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julienchab

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #91 on: November 19, 2017, 04:37:07 PM »
Prophet said he was going to try and add those to the Salt Mines. This is something that I felt would be better than traps that refire indefinitly. It would add an amount of uncertainty to dungeons, instead of simply can do/cannot do once you know where the traps are.

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #92 on: November 19, 2017, 07:21:56 PM »
A point that hasn't been mentioned before- While you do have to be a rogue to disable traps greater than a DC 35, you do not have to be a Rogue to recover them. Perhaps making more traps able to be recovered might entice some non-rogue trap tinkerers: Wizards, Rangers, Bards and Trickery Domain clerics for example.

julienchab

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2017, 04:15:14 PM »
Tried the Church today, with the same technique as last time. Even unlocked doors, when bashed in with a successful str check, wouldn't open.

julienchab

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #94 on: November 26, 2017, 02:00:17 PM »
Ah more specific examples.

Ghastrian church: The doors are all set with traps, and even after unlocking them, you trigger the trap every time you try to open it, and it stays closed. There is a way around it but it requires a very specific high level spells to do it, and will stop most groups.

Ghastrian Cave: No traps in this dungeon.

Sithicus Barrow: There is many floor traps and door traps there that will do very big fire damage and medium divine damage. One place specifically, you open a door and mobs appear, and there is a divine trap right behind it. The first person would usually take the damage, but now everyone will have to take it. Also, there is 3 or 4 epic fire traps in this dungeon I believe, which means that without a rogue, people will get roasted.

Sithicus Salt Mines: No traps here other than on chests for now. Will need to be tested if traps are added.

Anubis temple: The two first corridors can't be done without a rogue since the divine traps have a DC of over 35. Same for the doors that are trapped with negative type energy. The others traps being of DC 35, other classes can be able to disable them.

Harvest temple: This dungeon at refiring traps in the first corridor already, but they were DC 35, making it possible for other classes to disable it as well. I haven't done it since the change though, but some of the doors are trapped with divine and spike, so it would need to be tested.

Hotep temple: Doors seems to work fine even with the poison traps, and the dispelling trap can we worked around by buffing after them. I don't see any problems here.

Hazlan Curst: No traps other than on chests, which aren't so much of a problem.

Hazlan Fire Caves: No traps.

Perfidus: No traps here neither, except on the chests of loot.

Blaustein: No traps.

I might have forgotten some, but I hope that helps.


Guess I need to update this for the Hotep temple. Corridor traps were changed from normal dispell traps to epic electrical traps. Impossible to do without a rogue now, because take 150 electrical damage 5 times isn't very doable.

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Re: Refiring traps
« Reply #95 on: November 26, 2017, 10:12:48 PM »
Refiring traps brought new winds in dungeonings(and ninjalooting) makes it more hardcore.
I agree with EO what traps makes dungeon more harder and it must have place of them.
And as I see now how it is trying to balance new traps and dungeons.  There still some bugs with doors as it was mentioned but with few places as Sithicus or Tombs in Har'akir this traps makes more sense better prepare for adventure and be more hard. Not when wizard and cleric with trickery domain can do in pair everything.

I like how balanced now Hotep tomb.
This dungeon can be made on some half part and without hard needing of rogue but for sweet part you need rogue or die for greedy attempt complete dungeon fully.
And same work with other dungeons. Greedy adventures for gold/exp/item dying from traps if they prepared poorly for -dangerouse- high-levels place.
Perhaps some traps must be not refiring, maybe some traps must be lowered DC or changes their locations. Or something else to better balance dungeons.
But for sure as I think it is good changes.
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