You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC  (Read 3519 times)

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« on: February 11, 2017, 11:53:20 AM »
Maybe this should go on my own RP profile as personal preference but I don't think anyone will notice it there. I also feel I've exhausted the subtle approach.

This is a gothic horror setting. The TOS is that when we login we accept something bad might happen to our characters. I also am *IC* looking for RP. I accept both of those conditions.

I don't think players of "nice" PCs have to act any differently OOC from community standards.

If we don't turn LFRP on, that means something.

IC I try not to be exclusionary. But please if you see a group that's already RPing together, if you approach please try to fit in with what's going on already. I don't care if your character is drunk or rude or whatever, that doesn't give you the right to demand a "nice" character's attention just because she won't stomp your face like many would. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it's not fun and it doesn't make me want to keep playing with you.

I'm more certain that you should not use OOC means to manipulate a nice character IC. I'm going to use an extreme example so as not to single out any real behavior I've experienced:

Iridni is in the Kinship having a meeting with the other Wayfarers. She receives a Tell saying "A child is being tortured in Sithicus. If you don't drop what you're doing and come save this child, she and the WK are not so good like you pretend to be."

IC she wants to help the child, but OOC I resent the clumsy manipulation and force of your story on me. I've not experienced anything so bad, but the means of delivery is what's important, not the example.

I don't mean for this to be about me or any specific personal experience. It's not a complaint about anyone. I hope instead to ask something general of others:

Are you integrating your RP with those around you instead of feeling you have to dominate or your being left out?

Are you using OOC channels to try to force RP instead of letting it occur organically?

Finally, to the many more players I've had so many positive interactions with, I hope you won't take this to be about you. Inevitably, sensitive people are sensitive and insensitive or maybe just beginner players never get it until you are more direct.

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Mereyn

  • Church of Ezra - Refuge of Fifth Light
  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Resident Observer of the Freakshow
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 12:10:50 PM »
A lot of past experiences of mine have shown that there is little, if not almost impossible, "organic integration" into already happening interactions.
Why that is so, I don't know. This is an observation of mine based on different approaches to rather day-to-day activities like idle standing and talking.
If a character of yours, a stranger to the existing agents of the conversation, attempts to enter said foray by saying something - mind you, nothing offensive or anything;
At best you would get an emote or a brief reply before it turns into ultimate silence towards you.

Truthfully, I don't see a way around that because there are both OOC and IC reasons why one will be left out, be they good or bad.
And in other cases it may be very awkward to get another person in on what you're doing, since in real life you wouldn't start a conversation with anyone either.

Miuo

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 12:22:35 PM »
I am a touch confused by this post. I can't really tell what the post is about. At one part it seems to be about telling people how they should rp. Then it seems to jump to things regarding tells trying to be enforced as rp. As far as I am aware tells are not supposed to be used as a means to rp, as it is an OOC feature majority wise. Using OOC knowledge to effect IC circumstance would follow the rules of meta however. Which is why the posts confuse me, it just sort of jumps around onto various things. It sounds more as if there is an issue your having right now. Then seems to jump back to talking about peoples rp, and then back to trying to use ooc means as rp. I am also not sure what LFRP has to do with any of this? Its just a general tool to give mention you may be seeking rp. But your post seems to be about meta and ic etiquette ?

IC should always be kept ic. If a character is a for lack of better wording an ass hat. Then handle it icly, if they try to force their will onto a goody type char, have your character handle such according to the character you are playing. Not every character is going to have prim and proper etiquette and will be polite. There are going to be those who bulldoze conversations, try to make everything about them, or feel entitled that they are more important than everyone around them (cough sun elves cough). I don't think its fair to go OOC about it when it can be handled icly as it nearly always has.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 12:24:20 PM by Miuo »

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 01:05:40 PM »
Quote
A lot of past experiences of mine have shown that there is little, if not almost impossible, "organic integration" into already happening interactions.

If a PC can't, then maybe don't?

Merchant is selling something to a customer. I have a PC who is rude and intrusive, without social grace.

I can ignore the interaction. I can IC come up and listen to the exchange for a second and then say, "He's bloody cheating you, mate. Why I saw a dwarf selling that for half as much."

Or I can say, "I'm a mighty priestess of the Demogorgon. Convert now or burn!"

The player can say the last is IC, but it's trying to dominate. The second at least attempts to play along with what the first two PCs were doing.

If you listen first you can see whether there's a hook for your character or not. If you're not at all interested in what the first two are doing, do you really have the right to steamroll over it and make them pay attention to you instead?
 
This is minor anyway. The OOC is worse because the people you're enjoying RP with don't realize what you're dealing with while trying to RP with them.

I've pretty much said all I want to say on this. Since Miuo is confused, please excuse all the personal venting in my previous post. Here's the short version:

If LFRP is off, maybe the player isn't LFRP???

Can you integrate your RP with others, rather than dominate their attention or feel left out?

Are you using OOC rather than putting the effort into RP that IC requires?

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

snowfox

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 01:12:51 PM »
I believe you didn't quite understand the point Mereyn intended, which is that it is very, very hard to get people to even acknowledge you if you try to strike up a conversation. This goes so far that, at times, you say something in direct connection to what two people are openly discussing on the road, something that is not offensive but simply a comment that is meant to either inform them or get them to talk with you about it, but then the conversation shuts down or goes into quiet whispers.

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2017, 01:22:49 PM »
Fair enough. That's not me, however. Most of the time I try very hard to include anyone who makes an honest attempt to play along.

[deleted]
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 01:25:44 PM by Iridni Ren »

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Mailbox-2100

  • Where the heart is.
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • JourneyMan: Pilgrimage
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 01:25:06 PM »
I think I understand you, Iridni.

Honestly, if someone makes you feel off... extricate yourself from their graces (or lack therof) Nobody can tell you how to do anything. They will try, and maybe even come off as 'domineering', but then, doesn't that tell you all you need to know about them as -not- to get involved further?

I've had similar experiences, and can understand how it may be difficult to vocalize and 'properly' define these things. Again, you can infer from the tone of responses where people are coming from and their intent. I think in your example, you illustrated someone who is trying to fulfill some personal agenda, and testing and playing off a perceived weakness to get it.

Take heart, stand fast; You are not alone.  :)

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 01:26:38 PM »
Thanks  :)

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

julienchab

  • Guest
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 01:52:11 PM »

If LFRP is off, maybe the player isn't LFRP???


This is roleplay server, so shouldn't you always be looking for RP? If people don't try to get into RP with people that are already in some RP, how will new characters ever get involved? How will new players meet new people? LFRP mode is only there to help finding RP, but even when you don't activate the system, you should be ready to RP with other people. If you don't want to RP with people other than your small group of friends, then go into a cave or a house when nobody will find you?

FinalHeaven

  • Ba'al Verzi
  • The Underworld
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1150
  • dat boi
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2017, 02:00:07 PM »
People definitely shouldn't be manipulating you through tells. First and foremost if that is happening then you should take screenshots and send them to the CC. But even then it's important to recognize that your don't have to respond to these people. Play your character as you think you should.

I won't comment on the lfrp tool. I always have it off.

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2017, 02:44:47 PM »

If LFRP is off, maybe the player isn't LFRP???


This is roleplay server, so shouldn't you always be looking for RP?

Please see my first post :) I didn't repeat all that because I was trying to be simpler.

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Mailbox-2100

  • Where the heart is.
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • JourneyMan: Pilgrimage
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2017, 02:54:00 PM »
 :D

Niffie

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2017, 07:49:42 PM »
IC should always be kept ic. If a character is a for lack of better wording an ass hat. Then handle it icly, if they try to force their will onto a goody type char, have your character handle such according to the character you are playing. Not every character is going to have prim and proper etiquette and will be polite. There are going to be those who bulldoze conversations, try to make everything about them, or feel entitled that they are more important than everyone around them (cough sun elves cough). I don't think its fair to go OOC about it when it can be handled icly as it nearly always has.
Completely agree with you Miuo. I think it adds to the roleplay when someone doesn't act accordingly. As a matter of fact, without it we'd all be sitting in Dementlieu, drinking coffee and eating croissants all day ^^

As for people trying to enforce others through OOC means; I find it absolutely appalling when that happens. Sure, you can agree to certain terms of what is about to happen next OOCly, when dealing with a serious situation of potential character killing, but every one has their freedom to RP their character how they like. I think the personal issues often occurs when people get a feeling that someones character is a reflection of the player, and I think that's quite unfair to someone who is playing an evil, or just generally uneducated character as a few examples.

Also, since we're on the topic of having a hard time getting in contact with people; I've myself often experienced entire groups of adventures going quite whilst we're in a dungeon. I don't know if people are sitting on discord or whispering or whatever, but it kinda defeats the purpose of grouping up and RP'ing. The best RP for me has always happened ON adventures, so that bothers me a bit.


Miuo

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1785
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2017, 09:56:40 PM »
For me personally, I usually hate hate hate rping in the middle of dungeons when I'm a fighter type because it distracts from combat, and can often lead to accidental death. Though I don't mind it when resting, or when we have come to a "safe zone". I am far more ready to rp however when I'm a caster type that expels all my power via buffs and then just follow invis since I don't have to worry about maintaining focus on combat really. However, this still has gotten others killed a few times when I was too distracted typing to heal them before they croaked on me :/ I think it all depends on your own preference.

Niffie

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2017, 10:55:20 PM »
For me personally, I usually hate hate hate rping in the middle of dungeons when I'm a fighter type because it distracts from combat, and can often lead to accidental death. Though I don't mind it when resting, or when we have come to a "safe zone". I am far more ready to rp however when I'm a caster type that expels all my power via buffs and then just follow invis since I don't have to worry about maintaining focus on combat really. However, this still has gotten others killed a few times when I was too distracted typing to heal them before they croaked on me :/ I think it all depends on your own preference.

I should have rephrased that better I guess. Yeah, people are quiet when they are fighting, for the most part that is. But when you're resting, or walking between packs and such, not getting a reply what so ever for a long while, especially when there's quite a few people around, it quickly feels awkward.

lakhena

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2017, 01:59:12 AM »
That tell example just sounds like someone teasing you, to be honest.  But if they're not teasing mildly, then it's just in poor taste the way it was done.  I tend to not mind if people poke me and ask if I'd like to join xyz event happening now or tell me to come to abcland so we can finish up whatever rp we didn't get to previously.

As for asking that others try to integrate into whatever RP is happening now, I think it's not a reasonable expectation for PCs are that inherently selfish, narcissistic, chaotic, or simply unobservant.  They're going to interrupt and likely not care what you're doing or chatting about. 

If it bothers you, then you should play it out IC to try to change those behaviors with those individuals.... or as someone mentioned before, find a quiet place to RP that is less likely to get interruptions.

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2017, 12:21:25 PM »
That tell example just sounds like someone teasing you, to be honest.

If you're talking about the Tell example I used, I said I was choosing an extreme example because of not wanting to call anyone out.

I don't want to argue subjective matters further.

But!!

Iif you want to know why players might not respond to your Tells and might exclude you, if you feel isolated in game, it might be because you're not RPing in a way that others prefer.

Nice PCs have a higher tolerance for being stepped on. It doesn't mean we they enjoy it :P

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Niffie

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2017, 03:45:42 PM »
Iif you want to know why players might not respond to your Tells and might exclude you, if you feel isolated in game, it might be because you're not RPing in a way that others prefer.

Nice PCs have a higher tolerance for being stepped on. It doesn't mean we they enjoy it :P

Then I'd prefer they tell me if I'm acting completely out of character and ruining the atmosphere as opposed to freezing me out. I'm a grown up, I can take critique without shedding tears ^^

That said, I'm still more inclined to believe I've been unlucky playing with friends that are sitting on some sort of com-system. Which sort of breaks the immersion if or when I'm getting no replies at all.

Inti

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2017, 04:35:10 PM »
I guess I can add my two cents to this one.


On the whole I try to be helpful and inclusive, especially to new players. However, often enough this can actually be -really hard- to do IG if you actually stay IC and play characters which are either somewhat reserved, secretive or just not naturally helpful to strangers. This is one of the reasons I'm bringing back my shelved hin ranger, because my other 2 current PCs are pretty useless in this sense.


In general, there is a great variety of RP styles and expectations here. And though overuse of tells can be immersion-breaking, I find a good-humoured or explanatory tell can actually help in keeping IC / OOC separate and diffuse any potential tension or misunderstandings  (just as a terse, unfriendly tell can do the opposite).  I also tend to use tells to ask for feedback and IG logic as far as certain aspects of the setting and certain situations are concerned - almost asking for feedback before I embark on a certain line of RP. I think most don't mind this so much, though I may have managed to annoy certain people with this habit, as it jars with what they wish to experience IG.

I have encountered people whose RP I found, hm..  not as fulfilling as others', as well as those who are very reluctant to RP with anyone outside their usual group. Like some others here mentioned, I prefer to deal with such things IGly, and just stick to the reactions my character would have. In very rare cases  - especially with people I feel may be new to RP and to the server - I may offer very careful 'constructive criticism', trying to be as clear and as positive as the circumstances permit.

On the other hand, I know I've also unintentionally annoyed certain people in the past with how I did things and would like to take the opportunity of this thread to apologize if I had rubbed anyone the wrong way.




“What makes the desert beautiful,' said the little prince, 'is that somewhere it hides a well...”  ― Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2017, 05:03:52 PM »
Then I'd prefer they tell me if I'm acting completely out of character and ruining the atmosphere as opposed to freezing me out. I'm a grown up, I can take critique without shedding tears ^^

That said, I'm still more inclined to believe I've been unlucky playing with friends that are sitting on some sort of com-system. Which sort of breaks the immersion if or when I'm getting no replies at all.

I don't know who you play or if our characters have interacted. The reason I first posted is to do what you say you'd prefer, but make it in a general manner. Not to single anyone out. Not to use specific examples. Just to ask that players who feel frozen out or ignored examine what they're doing. Instead of assuming anyone dislikes them or is in a clique against them.

It's evident we don't all share the same RP preferences.

I agree with you for that matter that I give my full attention to the game when I'm in it unless I'm not getting responses. Then I might check something else while waiting. In fact that's a big reason Tells from other players I'm not RPing with at the moment make me unhappy.  Because I want those I am RPing with to get my best effort.

The Kinship had a meeting yesterday where we were discussing complex plans. Many PCs were talking at once. My PC also had her own agenda. Lots of things I wanted to accomplish IC.

So it's annoying when I'm doing something that was planned and looked forward to be distracted from it OOCly. I feel the players who arranged it and showed up for it deserve my attention for their work and for including me.

Please don't think I shriek every time I see a Tell. I don't :)  It's just the hope that this will explain why any player--not just me--might prefer that someone wanting to participate fit in with, rather than try to take over, that player's RP.

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Amon-Si

  • Inventor of the cat
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 2376
  • Freelance troublemaker
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2017, 01:02:16 AM »
If someone sends me an OOC tell about Ic stuff I'm not interested, I send back: *Your messenger was consumed by ogres*

aprogressivist

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 4743
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2017, 03:30:49 AM »
If someone sends me an OOC tell about Ic stuff I'm not interested, I send back: *Your messenger was consumed by ogres*

Re-employing the ogres as a spam filter, ingenuous!
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

bocian

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Noram
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2017, 05:16:44 AM »

Then I'd prefer they tell me if I'm acting completely out of character and ruining the atmosphere as opposed to freezing me out. I'm a grown up, I can take critique without shedding tears ^^

"The good fighter does 'what has to be done' and does not let himself be troubled by any scepticism."
- Julius Evola

Iridni Ren

  • Priestess of Pelor
  • The Wayfarer Kinship
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3293
  • When all other lights go out
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2017, 07:06:41 AM »
You say that because you're viewing it as you, the individual.

Don't assume because you would respond a certain way to being told "you're ruining the atmosphere" everyone else would. That everyone is "grown up." Do grownups need to be told?

My windows cracked, but they can be replaced.
Your arm will tire throwing stones my way.

Arawn

  • CC, Developers, and
  • Dungeon Masters
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 9092
  • Gwrandewch ar y cwn.
Re: LFRP - Tell - IC and OOC
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2017, 09:01:19 AM »
Sending others a Tell to criticize their RP is both rude and, as it turns out, a violation of the first and third overriding rules of the community. If you think someone is being very disruptive, ask a DM or a CC member about it. Do not simply inform the other person of your opinion unless you have very, very good reason to believe they are open to your criticism.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 09:39:59 AM by Arawn »
Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn.